Devils 2019-20 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) in limbo part II

[ScottyK]

I remember celebrating the Rangers collapse vs the caps minutes prior then we imploded

 

[guitarguyvic]

because he was the reason that’s why. He was a force averaging almost 23mins a night. He was absolutely more responsible for the devils making the finals then Marty. No Kovy no playoff run 100%. Take your glasses off

I don’t know how you can look at that playoff run and identify one singular player as being head and shoulders above any other. It was as much of a team effort as you can possibly get.

Your penultimate sentence is also silly. Anyone looking at it objectively could easily insert Henrique or the fourth line in place of Kovy to say without them there’s no playoff run. In fact, it’s not a matter of opinion when it comes to Henrique considering he had not one but two instances where the team would not have advanced to the next round without his OT goals.

 

[guitarguyvic]

On a different note...barring some miracle we are going into year six of this rebuild next season with what is likely the worst defensive core since the rebuild began. Good grief...please tell me more about how the last GM didn’t deserve to get fired.

 

[TBF1972]

It’s actually been pretty easy to follow but not wanting to understand a simple explanation can make it very hard.
You and most of the posters who view things the same way as yourself would prefer keeping all our assets, take a beating for the next several years and magically have those prospects flourish while our current guys get better and better. Is that correct?
You don’t want to sign guys or add players on LTC around the age of 28 or 29 because we’re not competitive, correct? So you think Hughes and Hischier will just carry this team to the promis land alone? Who’s going to help them out along the way?
You need to surround your gems with talent, not have them do all the heavy lifting on their own and wait for your picks to pan out. We waited for our blueline to flourish under Lou with the likes of Larsson, Gélinas, Urbom and Gélinas. Everyone was under the impression that we’d have one of the best defensive unit in the game in no time and none of those guys figured it out, which included a 4th overall pick btw.
I’m not saying to trade every single one of our promising kids, I’m saying that sacrificing one or maybe two, when we have several (which wasn’t the case under Lou) is actually a good thing for our current team and the development of our future. I never once said to move the 6th or 10th pick because those could be franchise changing picks, but the 17th and a prospect, absolutely.

About the discussion with you in specific:
1) I have never expressed any personal preferences regarding team building
2) I don't disagree with everything you are saying
3) Others and me point out, where you are contradicting yourself
4) Discussing different opinion should help us sharpen our own opinion

About the current state of the team:
1) Shero tried last summer to set the team up for immediate contention with trades for Subban, Gusev and the signing of Simmonds. Those moves didn't have the desired results for various reasons (coaching, special teams, goal-tending outside MBW, defense, offense)
2) The NJD fired the coach and the GM during the season and traded away Hall, Coleman, Green and Simmonds for future assets
3) As of yet the NJD have no GM and no coach and I would therefore say also no clear short term direction
4) The NJD have one of the youngest roster in the NHL

My personal opinion:
1) I have no idea, how competitive the NJD currently are or will be next season. On the one hand they lost a few games at the start of the season, which they should have won. On the other hand they won a few games after the Hall trade, which they had no business winning. Luck or MBW or both added to the win column. Obviously you can't count on luck to continue and goalie performances aren't very consistent from year to year for most goaltenders and we only have one season to evaluate MBW. Schneider is done and there is no NHL tender in the organisation, which could pick up the slack should MBW struggle next season. And without at least average goaltending I can't see a way, the Devils ice a winner next season.
2) Hiring the #1 D would certainly help, but as pointed out under 1) it might not be enough to make the Devils a PO contender next season or beyond. Therefore I would rather take a wait and see approach
a) how the Devils perform with a new coach and system
b) which prospects or trades are available for the 17th pick + other pieces or cap room
c) if Smith is able to contribute in the NHL next and many, many more seasons
3) This off-season could be a turning point for NHL contracts. Many contracts were signed under the assumption, that the salary cap will gradually and significantly raise over the next few seasons. Today's expectation is a flat cap for next season and lots of question marks beyond with most of the league capped out. OEL currently looks as one of the most attractive options, but I can see scenarios, where a better player or more fitting type of player or a similar player with a better contract becomes available at the same or even better rate. Especially if there is no compliance buyout, the NJD are one of the very few teams in the league with a lot of cap space, which could give them the upper hand in negotiations (contract or trade). Trading for a rather rich contract, which was made under the old premises, is hopefully not the most attractive opportunity.

 

[MadDevil]

BlackwoodOps sounds like a porn movie.

 

[Billdo]

I mean there've ALWAYS been Devils fans that have bagged on Marty for various reasons, mainly the MB30 helmet and dictating playing time. Other than maybe Stevens is there any 'great' player that is universally loved around here? We know about Nieds' checkered history here. Elias is close to universally loved but when people claim he's not a HOF'er I'll beat them off with a stick

I think you can say he wasn't THE goat while loving him. That's where I'm at. Brodeur is the Devils. I love him even if I hated that stupid MB30 mask. I can say that while saying I don't know that he's for sure better than some other guys. They're not mutually exclusive statements. Now some other knuckleheads in here are downright shitting on him which to me is asinine.

 

[glenwo2]

Broken - back Kovy... so is Kovy supposed to be Jack Gyllenhaal or Heath Ledger?

Uh...no?

I was referring to how his back was basically held together by duct-tape by the time they made the Finals.

 

[Ripshot 43]

Uh...no?

I was referring to how his back was basically held together by duct-tape by the time they made the Finals.

Good lord Glen, it was a joke.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

Looking back on it, Sutter was one of the worst coaches we’ve had.

He leaned on Madden and Pandolfo so hard in that series and both were bad by that point, especially Pandolfo.

He gave them a ton of minutes in game 5 (so we could win 1-0) and game 7.

Dude hated Patrik Elias. From stripping him of the 'C' to playing him less than 15 minutes in a Game 7 in '09. ****ing guys like Shanahan's corpse, John Madden and Jay Pandolfo got more ice time than the big homie.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

Except I didn’t say he didn’t carry the team the entire career just post stevens nieds he didn’t.

He carried the shit out of the team in 06-07 and finished third in the Hart voting. What are you talking about.

 

[NJDevs26]

I remember celebrating the Rangers collapse vs the caps minutes prior then we imploded

Don't remind me, I was rolling my eyes at all the celebration in the arena during the second period intermission when the Ranger game went final.

He carried the shit out of the team in 06-07 and finished third in the Hart voting. What are you talking about.

You could argue that season they should have been no better than a borderline playoff team, but sailed to 107 points despite the late-season bumpy road that got Julien fired. Certainly Sutter's first year they really shouldn't have made the playoffs at all but Marty got them there.

 

[glenwo2]

Good lord Glen, it was a joke.

Sorry man. I'm not in much of a joking mood lately.

Though I did understand (after the fact) what you were talking about.

Despite Kovy's bad back, all he needed was to convert on sure goals he missed in Games 1 and 2, and we'd have 4 Cups to talk about.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I read somewhere in the old thread that Vince Dunn is small and OEL is a "bigger body"...

Dunn is listed at 6'0'', 203 lbs
OEL is listed at 6'2'', 200 lbs

soooo

 

[Ripshot 43]

Sorry man. I'm not in much of a joking mood lately.

Though I did understand (after the fact) what you were talking about.

Despite Kovy's bad back, all he needed was to convert on sure goals he missed in Games 1 and 2, and we'd have 4 Cups to talk about.

I understand. Sometimes keeping the humor in the little things helps me maintain my sanity through this all.

 

[The 29th Pick]

Sorry man. I'm not in much of a joking mood lately.

Though I did understand (after the fact) what you were talking about.

Despite Kovy's bad back, all he needed was to convert on sure goals he missed in Games 1 and 2, and we'd have 4 Cups to talk about.

I understand. Sometimes keeping the humor in the little things helps me maintain my sanity through this all.

cmon, man if we Devil fans can't get along then...

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I read somewhere in the old thread that Vince Dunn is small and OEL is a "bigger body"...

Dunn is listed at 6'0'', 203 lbs
OEL is listed at 6'2'', 200 lbs

soooo

You probably read in that same threat that one guy is a 3rd pairing dmen and the other is a 1st pairing dman... but you’re not going to talk about that since it won’t fit your narrative.

And yeah, last time I checked, 6’2 is bigger the 6’0, so what’s your point?

If a contending team like the Blues are willing to move Dunn in favour of Marco Scandella, who they just resigned, that’s one of many red flags.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I read somewhere in the old thread that Vince Dunn is small and OEL is a "bigger body"...

Dunn is listed at 6'0'', 203 lbs
OEL is listed at 6'2'', 200 lbs

soooo

They’re using this scale

 

[JrFischer54]

So it’s homeristic to say Marty, the fourth line, etc were the main catalysts but not homeristic to say Kovalchuk carried the team? It’s a matter of opinion, nothing more.

But complaining about and mocking homerism on a team board is basically trolling so knock it off.

no trolling but when you can’t even bring yourself to criticize Marty for his duds then yeah that I guess is homerism

 

[JrFischer54]

I don’t know how you can look at that playoff run and identify one singular player as being head and shoulders above any other. It was as much of a team effort as you can possibly get.

Your penultimate sentence is also silly. Anyone looking at it objectively could easily insert Henrique or the fourth line in place of Kovy to say without them there’s no playoff run. In fact, it’s not a matter of opinion when it comes to Henrique considering he had not one but two instances where the team would not have advanced to the next round without his OT goals.

Yeah I mean kovalchucks tremendous pass to zajac for game 6 winner or Kovy forecheck and pass to carter for the gwg in game 5 against the rangers both directly setting Henrique up in those next overtime games. Or that amazing puck possession and then half ice pass to ponskosaki (butchered) for the overtime winner game 3 flyers. Yeah those plays I guess we just overlook.
All that while playing close to 24mins a night! That’s a lot but yeah the fourth liners are definitely on that same level.

Kovy was the mvp that year if they won the cup. Anything else you might think is just comical but it’s ok I don’t care

 

[Billdo]

You probably read in that same threat that one guy is a 3rd pairing dmen and the other is a 1st pairing dman... but you’re not going to talk about that since it won’t fit your narrative.

And yeah, last time I checked, 6’2 is bigger the 6’0, so what’s your point?

If a contending team like the Blues are willing to move Dunn in favour of Marco Scandella, who they just resigned, that’s one of many red flags.

Maybe they signed Scandella because it gives them a better shot at resigning Petro because Scandella and Petro will be cheaper, probably significantly so, than a possible Dunn and Petro pair.

 

[JrFischer54]

I think you can say he wasn't THE goat while loving him. That's where I'm at. Brodeur is the Devils. I love him even if I hated that stupid MB30 mask. I can say that while saying I don't know that he's for sure better than some other guys. They're not mutually exclusive statements. Now some other knuckleheads in here are downright shitting on him which to me is asinine.

Who’s shitting on him?

 

[JrFischer54]

He carried the shit out of the team in 06-07 and finished third in the Hart voting. What are you talking about.

Smh really come on

 

[Billdo]

Who’s shitting on him?

Did I say you?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

You probably read in that same threat that one guy is a 3rd pairing dmen and the other is a 1st pairing dman... but you’re not going to talk about that since it won’t fit your narrative.

And yeah, last time I checked, 6’2 is bigger the 6’0, so what’s your point?

If a contending team like the Blues are willing to move Dunn in favour of Marco Scandella, who they just resigned, that’s one of many red flags.

or they need to re-sign Pietrangelo and can get a decent return for Dunn?

Was Kyle Palmieri "just a 4th liner" when the Devils traded for him in 2015? Players can grow when given bigger roles. And like I said, Dunn was just someone I picked out of a hat because the Blues are going to have to make a move. There will be others.

The overall point is the Devils should NOT be trading their best prospect AND a 1st round pick for a 29 year old player. I don't care who it is.

 

[JrFischer54]

Did I say you?

No that’s why I’m asking I don’t think anyone is