Devils 2019-20 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) in limbo part II

[Pitaya]

Gotta love when Brodeur isnt as good as goaltenders who played when there were 20-25 teams according to hIsToRiAnS

I love how much the Devils are underlying-ly hated around the league. We arent Toronto by any means but man oh man has our success over a short life span really rubbed some people the wrong way

Brodeur isnt top-3 or even top-5 to historians but the 2000 Devils are somehow the greatest team ever. Sheesh, cant these old bags just retire from having garbage opinions already?

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[Billdo]

Gotta love when Brodeur isnt as good as goaltenders who played when there were 20-25 teams according to hIsToRiAnS

I love how much the Devils are underlying-ly hated around the league. We arent Toronto by any means but man oh man has our success over a short life span really rubbed some people the wrong way

Brodeur isnt top-3 or even top-5 to historians but the 2000 Devils are somehow the greatest team ever. Sheesh, cant these old bags just retire from having garbage opinions already?

It might be blasphemous around here but I don't necessarily think he really is the GOAT. He's in the conversation but I can't just definitively say he's #1.

 

[JrFischer54]

It might be blasphemous around here but I don't necessarily think he really is the GOAT. He's in the conversation but I can't just definitively say he's #1.

you will get railed for that.

just like me because I think broduer was a perfect goalie for the system and team he played behind. That doesn’t mean you could insert ANY goalie in and get the same results. It without a doubt helped his stats esp considering a lot of the nights he faced 12-18 shots a game lol.

to take that further yes he won 3 cups but there were a ton of playoff flops mixed in with that success too.

 

[Bleedred]

you will get railed for that.

just like me because I think broduer was a perfect goalie for the system and team he played behind. That doesn’t mean you could insert ANY goalie in and get the same results. It without a doubt helped his stats esp considering a lot of the nights he faced 12-18 shots a game lol.

to take that further yes he won 3 cups but there were a ton of playoff flops mixed in with that success too.

Brodeur not winning a cup post-Stevens/Niedermayer is very similar to me to Gretzky never winning another cup after the Oilers. And I never even made this comparison until after he retired.

He even made a Stanley Cup finals after that and lost, much like Gretzky did in LA.

Some of Marty’s biggest playoff clunkers actually happened with Stevens and Niedermayer on the team. The 99 Pittsburgh series and the 01 Colorado series being his worst. The 08 Rangers series and the 10 Flyers series weren’t good, but he was already declining by 2010. January of 2010 is the start of his decline if you asked me, or at least significantly. He may have started to slightly slow down after the injury in 08.

But there were also a few playoff rounds where he looked GREAT and lost. The 94 Rangers series, the 97 Rangers series, the 98 Ottawa series, the 02 Carolina series and even the 09 Carolina series (outside of two Soft goals in game 7, one in the opening minute and one in the closing minute) where he played more than well enough to win and lost.

 

[Billdo]

you will get railed for that.

just like me because I think broduer was a perfect goalie for the system and team he played behind. That doesn’t mean you could insert ANY goalie in and get the same results. It without a doubt helped his stats esp considering a lot of the nights he faced 12-18 shots a game lol.

to take that further yes he won 3 cups but there were a ton of playoff flops mixed in with that success too.

I don't even care if someone takes offense to me saying that. It's not a knock on Brodeur as much as it is a compliment to guys who might be in the conversation. I'm by no means saying he's not an All Timer, I just think you can make a VERY strong argument that he's not a top 3.

 

[tailfins]

Brodeur not winning a cup post-Stevens/Niedermayer is very similar to me to Gretzky never winning another cup after the Oilers. And I never even made this comparison until after he retired.

He even made a Stanley Cup finals after that and lost, much like Gretzky did in LA.

Some of Marty’s biggest playoff clunkers actually happened with Stevens and Niedermayer on the team. The 99 Pittsburgh series and the 01 Colorado series being his worst. The 08 Rangers series and the 10 Flyers series weren’t good, but he was already declining by 2010. January of 2010 is the start of his decline if you asked me, or at least significantly. He may have started to slightly slow down after the injury in 08.

But there were also a few playoff rounds where he looked GREAT and lost. The 94 Rangers series, the 97 Rangers series, the 98 Ottawa series, the 02 Carolina series and even the 09 Carolina series (outside of two Soft goals in game 7, one in the opening minute and one in the closing minute) where he played more than well enough to win and lost.

not sure I agree on the Gretzky similarity. On the surface, maybe. But Gretzky was traded from a team that would win another cup to a team that really wasn’t that good. Marty didn’t get traded, those guys just left. But the rest of the team was still pretty good. And management was good.

To me, the things going against Marty (from a top 3 nod, not from being great) are:

- didn’t beat Roy in 2001
- didn’t do much post Nieds / Stevens even though he had very good regular seasons
- didn’t beat a superior Kings team when he was likely the best player on the ice (reputation wise)
- Hasek’s career overlapping

It’s really just one goal here, one game there. The difference is very narrow.

 

[JrFischer54]

not sure I agree on the Gretzky similarity. On the surface, maybe. But Gretzky was traded from a team that would win another cup to a team that really wasn’t that good. Marty didn’t get traded, those guys just left. But the rest of the team was still pretty good. And management was good.

To me, the things going against Marty (from a top 3 nod, not from being great) are:

- didn’t beat Roy in 2001
- didn’t do much post Nieds / Stevens even though he had very good regular seasons
- didn’t beat a superior Kings team when he was likely the best player on the ice (reputation wise)
- Hasek’s career overlapping

It’s really just one goal here, one game there. The difference is very narrow.

My biggest knock on Marty which I’m sure people will disagree. He never really carried the team. I’m sure there were some but I don’t recall him standing on his head in a 2-1 40 save playoff game post nieds stevens. Also I don’t really ever remember him taking blame for the playoff flops. If only he could’ve been clutch against the kings we go to la up 2-0

 

[Bleedred]

My biggest knock on Marty which I’m sure people will disagree. He never really carried the team. I’m sure there were some but I don’t recall him standing on his head in a 2-1 40 save playoff game post nieds stevens. Also I don’t really ever remember him taking blame for the playoff flops. If only he could’ve been clutch against the kings we go to la up 2-0

44 save shutout against the Canes in the 2009 playoffs says hello.

 

[JrFischer54]

44 save shutout against the Canes in the 2009 playoffs says hello.

long list there. But yes he def did steal that I won’t mention game 4 with a second left or game 6 no show or game 7 final 3 mins.

 

[The 29th Pick]

we're still the worst team at clearing our zone !
this tying goal seemed to go on for a half hour, still cant believe it happened while I was watching, then forget about the 4th goal smh

 

[Bleedred]

long list there. But yes he def did steal that I won’t mention game 4 with a second left or game 6 no show or game 7 final 3 mins.

Yes, he definitely choked away game 4 when he was bumped into by a Canes player with seconds left in the regulation and his massive choke in game 6 when we got shutout.

 

[MadDevil]

LMAO. The dude literally won more games than any other goalie in NHL history and more importantly helped win 3 Cups, but I'm going to hold a few bad moments against him as proof he never carried the team!

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

tell me we don't have Brodeur slander in here

PLEASE TELL ME.

 

[Darkauron]

tell me we don't have Brodeur slander in here

PLEASE TELL ME.

They be slanderin

 

[njdevils1982]

I get slandered, libeled,
I hear words I never heard in the Bible

 

[OmNomNom]

is there a goalie that ever carried a team though

 

[Nubmer6]

is there a goalie that ever carried a team though

Can't carry a team if the team is good enough to not need carrying.

 

[Desert Devil]

Marty is one of the main reasons we weren't complete trash in the five or so years right after the lockout.

 

[NJDevs26]

is there a goalie that ever carried a team though

In a single game or series sure. Not many through all four rounds.

Can't carry a team if the team is good enough to not need carrying.

Roy with Montreal, that’s really the only modern example of a goalie being able to carry a mediocre team to a Cup. Guys like Hasek and Giguere went almost all the way but not quite.

 

[Devils731]

In a single game or series sure. Not many through all four rounds.



Roy with Montreal, that’s really the only modern example of a goalie being able to carry a mediocre team to a Cup. Guys like Hasek and Giguere went almost all the way but not quite.

And the Giguere year Marty set records for overall shutouts and Stanley Cup final shutouts.

He has 3 games in the finals where he doesn’t give up a goal but because the team is good he didn’t carry the team for that series.

.934 save percentage and 7 shutouts that post season. He almost had a shutout every other win. That’s nuts.

 

[britdevil]

Imagine living in a world where Devils fans criticise Martin f***ing Brodeur.

I miss seeing that man lace 'em up, every single damn day.

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

When the league puts rules in place to limit your ability, you must be pretty f***ing good. If I need someone to a win a game to save my life, I’m picking Marty every single time without hesitation.

Speaking of Marty, MSG+ is currently airing his first NHL game.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I will not stand for this silly ass blasphemy of Marty. He carried plenty especially in 2003 and 2012. I honestly believe he would’ve finally gotten his Conn Smythe in 2012 had we pulled off beating LA.

A big reason we lost in the playoffs in 08 and 09 was Sutter’s coaching but let’s not rehash that again.

 

[Colin226]

Marty who?

 

[Bleedred]

Looking back on it, Sutter was one of the worst coaches we’ve had.

He leaned on Madden and Pandolfo so hard in that series and both were bad by that point, especially Pandolfo.

He gave them a ton of minutes in game 5 (so we could win 1-0) and game 7.