Devils 2019-20 team discussion (news and notes) - In limbo version

[Spoiled Bratt]

What’s with your fixation on trading Smith?

With our left side looking the way it is, it would be asinine to trade our best LHD prospect—even if it’s for an LHD upgrade.

There are plenty of other package permutations we can draw up that involve acquiring an LHD upgrade, and NOT dealing away Ty Smith. That way, we... address an organizational weakness? Instead of robbing Peter to pay Paul?

Hell, find a team with a decent Swedish footprint and dangle Boqvist + 17OA. God knows we aren’t short on wingers. There are many ways to do this, and you’re fixated on the least sensical.

I’m fixated on adding a top pairing dman to a defensive core that is nothing short of a joke. We probably have the worst defensive unit in the league and I’m pretty certain we’re the easiest to play against.

I care about the team, period. I might like a certain player but if that player is traded in order to improve our team, so be it.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I’m fixated on adding a top pairing dman to a defensive core that is nothing short of a joke. We probably have the worst defensive unit in the league and I’m pretty certain we’re the easiest to play against.

I care about the team, period. I might like a certain player but if that player is traded in order to improve our team, so be it.

No one disagrees with you on upgrading the defense.

Do you not think the better case scenario would be to inject an LHD upgrade (acquired with, let’s say, Boqvist + 17OA) *and* Ty Smith into next year’s lineup?

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

No one disagrees with you on upgrading the defense.

Do you not think the better case scenario would be to inject an LHD upgrade (acquired with, let’s say, Boqvist + 17OA) *and* Ty Smith into next year’s lineup?

Of course it would, but we’re not getting anyone valuable with that crappy package.

For that return, we’re getting a mediocre 2nd pairing dman or a 3rd pairing specialist, if we’re looking at players in the 22 to 25 year old bracket.

That would be the type of deal that would get us a Vince Dunn, who’s a player that’s been talked about possibly being on the block, and if that’s the case, I’d rather hold on to our assets instead of adding more of what we already have.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

Of course it would, but we’re not getting anyone valuable with that crappy package.

For that return, we’re getting a mediocre 2nd pairing dman or a 3rd pairing specialist, if we’re looking at players in the 22 to 25 year old bracket.

How can you say this so definitively?

That would be the type of deal that would get us a Vince Dunn, who’s a player that’s been talked about possibly being on the block, and if that’s the case, I’d rather hold on to our assets instead of adding more of what we already have.

If we acquire Dunn, it’s likely as a sweetener in a deal where we absorb Bozak or Allen. In that type of a deal, we might not even have to part with 17OA, let alone both pieces.

As an aside, it doesn’t seem like you’re too familiar with Dunn. He’s great, with excellent upside.

 

[JrFischer54]

I don’t know what your point is with this post. We are going to have to wait for these kids to flourish, it won’t happen overnight but at the same time, are we supposed to not make any moves to improve our current team in the meantime?

The players I listed aren’t going to be making an impact on our team for the next 3 to 4 years, at the earliest? If we’re going to stay status quo and not try to bolster our lineup and help out guys like Hischier, Hughes, Bratt, Zacha, Severson and Blackwood during that time... I don’t see the point in resigning Palmieri since he’ll be in his mid 30’s when we’ll have a decent roster.

I’m lost with you what is it you want to even do? Trade away the guys you listed for nhl caliber players now?

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I’m lost with you what is it you want to even do? Trade away the guys you listed for nhl caliber players now?

It’s a pretty easy concept to grasp and I’ve been saying the same thing for the past couple of days now.

I want to add a player that will lift this team from a bottom feeder to possibly a bubble team in the next year or two. That player has to be a dman, because that’s our weakest position now and for the foreseeable future. With the addition of that said player, we start building, slowly but surely, a winning culture and when those same prospects we listed will be ready to make the jump to the NHL, we’ll have somewhat of a foundation for them to lean on, unlike what Hischier, Bratt, Hughes, Bratt and Blackwood got when they made that jump.

Like a previous poster said today, our blueline was already garbage and we’re down Andy Greene and Sami Vatanen. Management is going to have to pull a semi miracle in order for us to ice a decent blueline by the start of next year or whenever hockey will resume to it’s normal activities.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

How can you say this so definitively?

If we acquire Dunn, it’s likely as a sweetener in a deal where we absorb Bozak or Allen. In that type of a deal, we might not even have to part with 17OA, let alone both pieces.

As an aside, it doesn’t seem like you’re too familiar with Dunn. He’s great, with excellent upside.

I’m 110% certain that a package which includes the 17th overall pick and Adam Boqvist won’t land us anything solid, especially not a up and coming 2nd pairing dman who’s between 22 and 25 years of age.

Rebuilding teams want to keep does types of players and contenders aren’t looking to add futures in exchange for key components of their actual roster.

As for Dunn, I just want to know what he has that Severson doesn’t, outside of the fact that he plays on the left side? How many offensive minded dman do we really need when our main weakness is protecting leads. We also have Butcher who plays the same type of game but his skating is nowhere as good as Dunn’s. Ty Smith also plays a similar game, so that would leave us with 4 dman who are "undersized", not known for their stellar defensive play and like to generate offense (Subban being the 4th of course).

Yes, he’s young and yes, he’s a promising player but he’s not the answer to what we’re looking for, unfortunately for us.

 

[MadDevil]

The only thing I would wonder about with Dunn is can he handle more and tougher minutes? It's one thing to kill it playing third pairing minutes, likely against easier competition. It's another to play first or second pairing minutes against tougher competition. Although given the current state of our left side he'd immediately be our best option, regardless of whether he's cut out to play top 4 minutes or not. I'm just always hesitant to assume a defenseman killing it in one role can do it in a larger role. I've been fooled too many times I guess.

 

[TBF1972]

Value of: - Jacob Larsson or Brendan Guhle
NJ should be interested, if the price is moderate.

 

[TBF1972]

I don’t know what your point is with this post. We are going to have to wait for these kids to flourish, it won’t happen overnight but at the same time, are we supposed to not make any moves to improve our current team in the meantime?

The players I listed aren’t going to be making an impact on our team for the next 3 to 4 years, at the earliest? If we’re going to stay status quo and not try to bolster our lineup and help out guys like Hischier, Hughes, Bratt, Zacha, Severson and Blackwood during that time... I don’t see the point in resigning Palmieri since he’ll be in his mid 30’s when we’ll have a decent roster.

The players mentioned except the draft picks are all older than Jack Hughes. You are constantly talking about Nico's and Jack's prime years and those players fit them like a glove. If you agree to build around the two #1 picks, than why aren't you patient with the best prospects in the same age group?

 

[TBF1972]

I’m 110% certain that a package which includes the 17th overall pick and Adam Boqvist won’t land us anything solid, especially not a up and coming 2nd pairing dman who’s between 22 and 25 years of age.

Rebuilding teams want to keep does types of players and contenders aren’t looking to add futures in exchange for key components of their actual roster.

As for Dunn, I just want to know what he has that Severson doesn’t, outside of the fact that he plays on the left side? How many offensive minded dman do we really need when our main weakness is protecting leads. We also have Butcher who plays the same type of game but his skating is nowhere as good as Dunn’s. Ty Smith also plays a similar game, so that would leave us with 4 dman who are "undersized", not known for their stellar defensive play and like to generate offense (Subban being the 4th of course).

Yes, he’s young and yes, he’s a promising player but he’s not the answer to what we’re looking for, unfortunately for us.

So Dunn is not the answer, because he is a swift skating offensive minded LHD. How would you describe OEL's game?

 

[NJDevs26]

I’m lost with you what is it you want to even do? Trade away the guys you listed for nhl caliber players now?

He wants to do Lou-type trades and signings despite ripping him for years. Pay through the nose for older players on big contracts in a desperate attempt to keep a win-now train going when it hasn't even left the station yet.

 

[TBF1972]

He wants to do Lou-type trades and signings despite ripping him for years. Pay through the nose for older players on big contracts in a desperate attempt to keep a win-now train going when it hasn't even left the station yet.

There is a lot of self-contradicting stuff in his posts.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

The players mentioned except the draft picks are all older than Jack Hughes. You are constantly talking about Nico's and Jack's prime years and those players fit them like a glove. If you agree to build around the two #1 picks, than why aren't you patient with the best prospects in the same age group?

Age is just a number and the overall skills of a player isn’t measured by the date of birth written on some piece of paper. You’ll have younger players that will be ready to make an impact earlier then others.

With that said, Smith wasn’t ready last year and might not be ready this year either, even if our current depth chart is probably the weakest we’ve had, ever. The same can be said of Bahl and I don’t see the picks we’ll be making this year having any impact whatsoever on this years team. They might make the team but making the team and having a positive impact is two different things.

If we don’t want to screw up the kids we have in our pipeline, we need to be patient and not throw them to the wolves because we have roster spots to fill out.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

I would just point out that if the draft is in June and there is a 24 team playoff teams will not be trading players while they are playing in the playoffs. All of this talk of trading any of this years picks for roster players may be just talk since it may not even be possible.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

So Dunn is not the answer, because he is a swift skating offensive minded LHD. How would you describe OEL's game?

A big body, first pairing dman, who can skate really well, make the proper breakout pass and log a shit load of minutes while helping his team offensively by posting a point about every other game.

As for Dunn, he has the same sort of qualities offensively but he’s been playing 3rd pairing minutes against weaker competition and hasn’t proved to be capable of playing 2nd or 3rd pairing minutes against stronger competition.

Bottom line is that one guy is a top pairing dman and the other isn’t. We don’t need to waste assets for a 3rd pairing dman, we have those by the ton and yes, he’d be our best dman on the left side but I wouldn’t consider beating out Butcher, Mueller and Mermis a major accomplishment.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

He wants to do Lou-type trades and signings despite ripping him for years. Pay through the nose for older players on big contracts in a desperate attempt to keep a win-now train going when it hasn't even left the station yet.

Once again, you have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about.

Either you can’t read or you’re just purposely ignoring the points I’m making.

 

[Darkauron]

He wants to do Lou-type trades and signings despite ripping him for years. Pay through the nose for older players on big contracts in a desperate attempt to keep a win-now train going when it hasn't even left the station yet.

Yep.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

There is a lot of self-contradicting stuff in his posts.

It’s actually been pretty easy to follow but not wanting to understand a simple explanation can make it very hard.

You and most of the posters who view things the same way as yourself would prefer keeping all our assets, take a beating for the next several years and magically have those prospects flourish while our current guys get better and better. Is that correct?

You don’t want to sign guys or add players on LTC around the age of 28 or 29 because we’re not competitive, correct? So you think Hughes and Hischier will just carry this team to the promis land alone? Who’s going to help them out along the way?

You need to surround your gems with talent, not have them do all the heavy lifting on their own and wait for your picks to pan out. We waited for our blueline to flourish under Lou with the likes of Larsson, Gélinas, Urbom and Gélinas. Everyone was under the impression that we’d have one of the best defensive unit in the game in no time and none of those guys figured it out, which included a 4th overall pick btw.

I’m not saying to trade every single one of our promising kids, I’m saying that sacrificing one or maybe two, when we have several (which wasn’t the case under Lou) is actually a good thing for our current team and the development of our future. I never once said to move the 6th or 10th pick because those could be franchise changing picks, but the 17th and a prospect, absolutely.

 

[TBF1972]

Age is just a number and the overall skills of a player isn’t measured by the date of birth written on some piece of paper. You’ll have younger players that will be ready to make an impact earlier then others.

With that said, Smith wasn’t ready last year and might not be ready this year either, even if our current depth chart is probably the weakest we’ve had, ever. The same can be said of Bahl and I don’t see the picks we’ll be making this year having any impact whatsoever on this years team. They might make the team but making the team and having a positive impact is two different things.

If we don’t want to screw up the kids we have in our pipeline, we need to be patient and not throw them to the wolves because we have roster spots to fill out.

So next year is one of the prime years for Hughes (and Hischier) and in 4 years, when those players will be ready to contribute the 23 year old Hughes will be washed up?