Devils 2018-19 team discussion (news and notes) - part XVIII

[Nubmer6]

I think Boqvist is going to be a big wildcard for next year. I have no idea where he may fit if he makes the big club. I presume he'll spend some time down in Bing, but if he manages to stick, do we shove him into a 2nd line wing role? Does he start on the 4th line with sheltered minutes? He's obviously suited for a top 6 scoring role, but even Elias started his first year as a 3rd liner. It would be an interesting dilemma.

 

[devilsblood]

I'm not in favor of Butcher or Mueller playing their off hand. Yes they have played a bit in the pro's, but not too much, and I think each is less effective there.

There is a reason most guys in the NHL, even the best d-men, play on their strong side.

 

[devilsblood]

I think Boqvist is going to be a big wildcard for next year. I have no idea where he may fit if he makes the big club. I presume he'll spend some time down in Bing, but if he manages to stick, do we shove him into a 2nd line wing role? Does he start on the 4th line with sheltered minutes? He's obviously suited for a top 6 scoring role, but even Elias started his first year as a 3rd liner. It would be an interesting dilemma.

Does Boqvist have Elias's defensive accumen? I doubt it.

I also think we have a lot of bottom 6 options. Our 3rd line particularly could be very good with Wood Zajac Coleman.

And we do have a spot for a 2nd line LW, so that is where I see him if he is ready. And with the strong defensive 3rd line, and a legit #1 line, our 2nd line won't be playing the toughest of minutes. But he would need to produce.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

I think Boqvist is going to be a big wildcard for next year. I have no idea where he may fit if he makes the big club. I presume he'll spend some time down in Bing, but if he manages to stick, do we shove him into a 2nd line wing role? Does he start on the 4th line with sheltered minutes? He's obviously suited for a top 6 scoring role, but even Elias started his first year as a 3rd liner. It would be an interesting dilemma.

If he does make the team, you staple him opposite Bratt, then sit back and enjoy.

 

[Nubmer6]

I think goal tending early was the clear cut #1 problem.

I think because of the that the defense looked worse then it was.

But as a defensive minded center, Zacha does get included in that defensive criticism. And I think that criticism is more that he needs to be better at, moving the puck up ice, maintaining possession, keeping the puck down the other end, creating chances and scoring goals. It's a little bit of the Lovejoy/Greene criticism. Sure they can defend, but if you can't push play, and are always defending, then you are going to give up more goals then you score.

Clearly he has more offensive talent then those guys, but it does boil down to the same issue in my mind.

So yes, when your #2 center is producing little to no offense, and getting hemmed in our own zone, I do consider that a major issue. And I am saying this as a big Zacha fan.

In his defense, I'd say that Zacha hasn't had the linemates to succeed. He really doesn't drive the line, so he needs a dynamic player to play along side of him. He also had a tendency to pass first, but wasn't really playing with any shooters.

I know this is cringe inducing for some, but at this point if we INSIST on having him in our top 6, actually rather have him play on the 1st line with Hall and Palms and have Hischier drive the 2nd line.

 

[devilsblood]

I know this is cringe inducing for some, but at this point if we INSIST on having him in our top 6, actually rather have him play on the 1st line with Hall and Palms and have Hischier drive the 2nd line.

The injuries not only helped ruin this season, but also took away valuable evaluation opportunities. Very unfortunate we were not able to see a Hall Zacha Palms line late in a season like this.

 

[Nubmer6]

I'm not in favor of Butcher or Mueller playing their off hand. Yes they have played a bit in the pro's, but not too much, and I think each is less effective there.

Strangely, I actually preferred Butcher on the right in the games where he played there last season. I think I said over the summer that if a defended had to switch over, he'd be my first choice.

Does Boqvist have Elias's defensive accumen? I doubt it.

Elias has actually said he credits his defensive accumen to starting his NHL career on the 3rd line. Just say'n.

 

[Camille the Eel]

The thing I like about Rooney these past half dozen games, and that I actually like about Pietilla a little too, and MacLeod, is having a first man in on the forecheck who gets there ahead or at the same time as the D, who's physical and gains puck possession and gets things going.

When we tried to pay chip and chase this year we often just turned over the puck. But the current line up of large, fast, aggressive youngsters has been very good at getting on top of the other team as soon as the puck gets deep, and at regaining possession at the other team's blue line too, when they are trying to break out.

Rooney has the size and speed to be a legit NHL 4th liner. Along the lines - watching the Bruins last night - of Chris Wagner or Noah Acciari, who contribute by aggressively forechecking on their shifts.

We are a better forecheck team right now than we've been all year. Partly just the end of year garbage time syndrome, but partly the physical youth, size and speed of our personnel over all.

 

[BenedictGomez]

NHL Network is currently playing the replay of the Marty all-time wins record breaker (late in the 2nd as I type this).

I cant believe that was a DECADE AGO today. We're all going to be dead soon.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

Andy Greene was great about 7 years ago

He’s old, slow, and sucks now. He needs to be off this roster.

This is just such a terrible take its sad

 

[BenedictGomez]

This is just such a terrible take its sad

Which part, saying Andy Greene was ever "great", or the Andy Greene's "old, slow and sucks now" bit? I woulndt say either are spot-on.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

This is just such a terrible take its sad

It’s mostly correct. He’s been pretty bad for the last 5 years and ideally isn’t in the starting lineup next year.

 

[NJDevs26]

People completely overexaggerate Greene's decline. He doesn't suck, he's just overslotted a pairing or two like just about any of our defensemen and most of our forwards.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

People completely overexaggerate Greene's decline. He doesn't suck, he's just overslotted a pairing or two like just about any of our defensemen and most of our forwards.

It's Lovejoy Syndrome.

At this stage of his career, Greene is best suited to be a team's resident bottom-pairing, veteran PK specialist. If that's where he's slotted, there's not much to complain about regarding his usage.

The problems arise when he plays above the bottom-pairing, exacerbating his deficiencies. Just like what happened to Lovejoy in his first two years here.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

People completely overexaggerate Greene's decline. He doesn't suck, he's just overslotted a pairing or two like just about any of our defensemen and most of our forwards.

Will Butcher was a third pairing dman last year with Ben Lovejoy and completely dominated the matchups he faced. You think the results we’d get from a Greene-Lovejoy pairing would have been nearly as good? It wouldn’t because Greene is bad and Butcher is good. Greene is a good PKer and bad at even strength.

 

[NJDevs26]

Will Butcher was a third pairing dman last year with Ben Lovejoy and completely dominated the matchups he faced. You think the results we’d get from a Greene-Lovejoy pairing would have been nearly as good? It wouldn’t because Greene is bad and Butcher is good. Greene is a good PKer and bad at even strength.

Butcher, Mueller, etc would struggle just as much given Greene's minutes and responsibilities if not more. You can't compare anyone 'dominating' the third pairing to someone playing first pairing/PK.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Butcher, Mueller, etc would struggle just as much given Greene's minutes and responsibilities if not more. You can't compare anyone 'dominating' the third pairing to someone playing first pairing/PK.

Butcher has played 20 seconds less per game than Greene at 5 on 5 this season mostly with a terrible partner in Lovejoy and Greene has Severson. Butcher has gotten excellent results and Greene has been a drag on Severson. He is not good anymore and should at best be a #6.

 

[Bleedred]

Butcher has been playing middle pairing for most of this year and he's done a good job at it. He's definitely seen an uptick in minutes played/competition faced this year.

 

[My3Sons]

I really hope the team can land a needle moving LD in the offseason. It would really make a difference but probably 28 other teams are saying the same thing.

 

[Wingman77]

NHL Network is currently playing the replay of the Marty all-time wins record breaker (late in the 2nd as I type this).

I cant believe that was a DECADE AGO today. We're all going to be dead soon.

That was a very fun yet bizarre season. Add in it was the most single season wins in franchise history without the winningest goaltender of all time in net for over half of the season, followed by one of the most upsetting playoff series and endings in franchise history.

 

[Bleedred]

It's Lovejoy Syndrome.

At this stage of his career, Greene is best suited to be a team's resident bottom-pairing, veteran PK specialist. If that's where he's slotted, there's not much to complain about regarding his usage.

The problems arise when he plays above the bottom-pairing, exacerbating his deficiencies. Just like what happened to Lovejoy in his first two years here.

I agree with all of this, only it was just the first year Lovejoy was here that he was overslotted on the top pair. We may have used him there a few times last year, but not for much of the year.

 

[Bleedred]

That was a very fun yet bizarre season. Add in it was the most single season wins in franchise history without the winningest goaltender of all time in net for over half of the season, followed by one of the most upsetting playoff series and endings in franchise history.

That year reminded of last year in some ways, only we were supposed to be good in 08-09 and not last year and were never expected to win a round. Although, a lot of people always predicted the end of our run as a top team every year between 2005-2006 and 2009-2010. The year we finally did miss, was the one year where we were getting more respect in the media and by pundits than any other year for a half decade before that and that was in 10-11.

I think the similarities were more or less the career backup taking over the starting role and having a one-off hot streak and the Marty injury not crippling us, just as Kinkaid last year didn't cripple us. I think most of us (I sure did) thought we were finished when Kinkaid had to step in and be the starter last year, and most of us thought we were done in 2008 when Marty got hurt. I remember most people wanting us to acquire either Roloson or Khabibulin, as logic would say Clemmensen wasn't good enough, but it also showed any goalie (or player) can hit a hot streak.

 

[NJDevs26]

That season's forever marred for me by the fact it went downhill immediately after 552, with the most craptacular finish ever. If anything it was almost two or three seasons - the Clemmensen half-year, then the triumphant Marty return+record breaking followed by the collective team downfall.

Plus the Kinkaid stretch run last year really surpassed the Clemmensen half-season for most fun, unexpected run if only cause it was more overtly meaningful.

 

[Bleedred]

That season's forever marred for me by the fact it went downhill immediately after 552, with the most craptacular finish ever. If anything it was almost two or three seasons - the Clemmensen half-year, then the triumphant Marty return+record breaking followed by the collective team downfall.

Plus the Kinkaid stretch run last year really surpassed the Clemmensen half-season for most fun, unexpected run if only cause it was more overtly meaningful.

We really did have quite the death march after the Marty record breaking win. A few blowout losses and Sutter saying that Marty needed to get his game together, so the backup couldn't play.

And in the one game the backup played after that, it was when Weekes got injured and that would be the end of his career.

When we talk about coaches and which ones are good and which ones aren't, Brent Sutter looks a lot better here than he really was, due to the strength of roster and the fact that we never missed the playoffs with him. His coaching in that series and that game 7 was highly suspect.

And I hate to say it, but it was the right thing to move on from Madden at the time, but Pandolfo also started to fall apart that year too, right after he got that extension and we had to see him on his deathbed here the next year and Lemaire making him dress in the practice locker room. Hard to believe Pandolfo played 2 more seasons in the NHL after that, as he was pretty poor by the end of 07-08 and got even worse the year after he got that deal.

Reminiscing about that time and series is also bringing me back to how bad Colin White was getting by that point.

 

[Camille the Eel]

That night Marty broke the record - against the Blackhawks (on the edge of their dynasty?) - what I remember was Langenbrunner taking forever to cut the net out of the posts and crossbar. Just forever - the laborious string by string effort sawing away with a knife. Until finally they kind of gave up. Funny how a detail like that will stick in your mind. Sort of an incongruous something out of place, like the end of The Red Badge of Courage we all had to read in high school.

Sorry this isn’t that hockey related but I really remember it from that Marty game. And how Chicago came back to score a few fancy goals late to make it closer. They were like a year away from their first cup. But few saw it coming so soon.