Devils 2018-19 team discussion (news and notes) - part XlV

[MichaelJ]

most to least valuable in my opinion- boyle, mojo, lovejoy, greene, everyone else

This is probably correct but I wonder if retaining on Greene ups his value - veteran D with another year

 

[JimEIV]

most to least valuable in my opinion- boyle, mojo, lovejoy, greene, everyone else

Greene is the most valuable player on that list and it's not even remotely close....even with his extra year ..He is still a 21 minute a game defender and a #1 PK defender...his PK stats are among the tops of the league.

 

[njdevils1982]

None of us here realistically expected Smith to be available so I'm not sure that's accurate

i went back and reread some of the old posts and you are correct……i forgot about the "if smith isnt there" angle for wanting miller….

honest mistake on my part

 

[njdevils1982]

whens the last time the Devils had 2 first round picks in the same draft?

the last time we actually selected twice in the first round was 1998 (Van Ryn and Gomez) but have we ever had 2 at any point since then that we traded?

and to think they took van ryn before gomez….

 

[MartyOwns]

Greene is the most valuable player in that list and it's not even remotely close....even with his extra year ..He is still a 21 minute a game defender and a #1 PK defender...his PK stats are among the tops of the league.

well i hope you’re right but i think any value is killed with his contract next year. what contender would really want to take that on? he’s a lot more valuable to us than he is to a contender.

besides that, i think greene is part of the culture that ray is trying to build upon. he extended hynes, i don’t think he’s trading our captain

 

[JimEIV]

and to think they took van ryn before gomez….

To think Dallas traded out of the first round for two 2nds and let us take Gomez....

 

[njdevils1982]

To think Dallas traded out of the first round for two 2nds and let us take Gomez....

shit….didnt realize that

1998-06-27

Devils

• 1998 first round pick (#27-Scott Gomez)

• two 1998 second round picks (#39-John Erskine) (#57-Tyler Bouck)

trade with Stars

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[devilsblood]

i went back and reread some of the old posts and you are correct……i forgot about the "if smith isnt there" angle for wanting miller….

honest mistake on my part

I still wanted Miller, so there was at least one guy.

 

[njdevils1982]

I still wanted Miller, so there was at least one guy.

there were a few more but not as one sided as i remembered

 

[devilsblood]

Greene is the most valuable player on that list and it's not even remotely close....even with his extra year ..He is still a 21 minute a game defender and a #1 PK defender...his PK stats are among the tops of the league.

Lovejoy is right there with Greene in terms of PK stats.

I think teams would have more interest in Greene, but he'd be at best an emergency mid pair guy on a good team.

 

[devilsblood]

there were a few more but not as one sided as i remembered

Pre draft the board was pretty heavy for Miller, but that was with the thinking that Smith was a top 10 guy. When he fell to us, most were pretty stoked to nab him up.

 

[devilsblood]

This is probably correct but I wonder if retaining on Greene ups his value - veteran D with another year

I hope retaining salary is a chip we look to use, whether that be Greene or anyone else.

 

[MartyOwns]

Pre draft the board was pretty heavy for Miller, but that was with the thinking that Smith was a top 10 guy. When he fell to us, most were pretty stoked to nab him up.

that describes me to a t. i wanted miller, i was pretty pissed he ended up on the rangers. but smith was a no brainer

 

[Brodeur]

and to think they took van ryn before gomez….

Van Ryn was a decent prospect. Gomez was ranked a little later from what I remember. In the moment, I wanted us to drafted another small skilled center named Justin Papineau.

To think Dallas traded out of the first round for two 2nds and let us take Gomez....

Craig Button kinda threw Stars GM Bob Gainey under the bus for that draft. Button, a former amateur scout for Dallas, was recounting some old stories during a TSN podcast. He said that their top choice at #27 was Simon Gagne, but Philadelphia took him earlier than expected at #22. Their next choice was Jiri Fischer who was dropping from where he was projected to go. Button said that the scouts implored Gainey to trade up a couple spots to secure Fischer but Gainey was confident that he'd be there at #27. Detroit snapped him up at #25 and I guess they decided they didn't like anybody else in the spot and traded down.

Late 90s/early 00s Dallas is always a cautionary tale in trading down for multiple picks.

1998: 27th (Scott Gomez) for 39th (John Erskine) and 57th (Tyler Bouck)
2002: 13th (Alex Semin) for 26th (Martin Vagner), 42nd (Marius Holtet), 185th (Francis Wathier)
2003: 28th (Corey Perry) for 36th (Vojtek Polak) and 54th (B.J. Crombeen)
2004: 20th (Travis Zajac) eventually for 28th (Marc Fistric), 52nd (Raymond Sawada), 2005 71st (Richard Clune), 2005 75th (Perttu Lindgren)

 

[njdevils1982]

Van Ryn was a decent prospect. Gomez was ranked a little later from what I remember. In the moment, I wanted us to drafted another small skilled center named Justin Papineau.



Craig Button kinda threw Stars GM Bob Gainey under the bus for that draft. Button, a former amateur scout for Dallas, was recounting some old stories during a TSN podcast. He said that their top choice at #27 was Simon Gagne, but Philadelphia took him earlier than expected at #22. Their next choice was Jiri Fischer who was dropping from where he was projected to go. Button said that the scouts implored Gainey to trade up a couple spots to secure Fischer but Gainey was confident that he'd be there at #27. Detroit snapped him up at #25 and I guess they decided they didn't like anybody else in the spot and traded down.

Late 90s/early 00s Dallas is always a cautionary tale in trading down for multiple picks.

1998: 27th (Scott Gomez) for 39th (John Erskine) and 57th (Tyler Bouck)
2002: 13th (Alex Semin) for 26th (Martin Vagner), 42nd (Marius Holtet), 185th (Francis Wathier)
2003: 28th (Corey Perry) for 36th (Vojtek Polak) and 54th (B.J. Crombeen)
2004: 20th (Travis Zajac) eventually for 28th (Marc Fistric), 52nd (Raymond Sawada), 2005 71st (Richard Clune), 2005 75th (Perttu Lindgren)

i was just joking as the picks were back to back (as you already know)

 

[Brodeur]

i was just joking as the picks were back to back (as you already know)

Ah, gotcha. I was bummed about Van Ryn. After I got NHL '95 for PC, I was able add new players so that's probably what caused me to get interested in prospects and the draft. I had a high school buddy who had moved from Michigan and was telling me about this Brendan Morrison kid who was tearing it up. So Michigan became my adopted college team, so it was nice to have Van Ryn to follow.

It's also funny that the NCAA free agent loophole is sometimes referred to as the "Mike Van Ryn" rule, but he wasn't the first to exercise it. 1997 pick Ben Clymer did it a year before and Van Ryn followed suit. It was just that Lou put up a bigger fight about it, so Van Ryn became the poster boy.

Van Ryn was coaching Tucson's AHL club up until this year. When they dropped by San Diego, I couldn't help but boo him when they announced his name over the PA system.

When I visited Ann Arbor in 2012, they had a wall of NHL alumni.

I like to think the 2nd one is a wall of shame [/coolstorybro]

 

[tailfins]

Ah, gotcha. I was bummed about Van Ryn. After I got NHL '95 for PC, I was able add new players so that's probably what caused me to get interested in prospects and the draft. I had a high school buddy who had moved from Michigan and was telling me about this Brendan Morrison kid who was tearing it up. So Michigan became my adopted college team, so it was nice to have Van Ryn to follow.

It's also funny that the NCAA free agent loophole is sometimes referred to as the "Mike Van Ryn" rule, but he wasn't the first to exercise it. 1997 pick Ben Clymer did it a year before and Van Ryn followed suit. It was just that Lou put up a bigger fight about it, so Van Ryn became the poster boy.

Van Ryn was coaching Tucson's AHL club up until this year. When they dropped by San Diego, I couldn't help but boo him when they announced his name over the PA system.

When I visited Ann Arbor in 2012, they had a wall of NHL alumni.

I like to think the 2nd one is a wall of shame [/coolstorybro]

How weird they have Brendan Morrison in a Flames jersey.

 

[NJDevs26]

Greene is the most valuable player on that list and it's not even remotely close....even with his extra year ..He is still a 21 minute a game defender and a #1 PK defender...his PK stats are among the tops of the league.

Well extra year and the NTC which kind of limits the market to begin with.

I hope retaining salary is a chip we look to use, whether that be Greene or anyone else.

We've never done that before - you would think with all the cap space we have going to waste the past few years it would have been an option but...

 

[MadDevil]

How weird they have Brendan Morrison in a Flames jersey.

He only played there for like a year or two right? You'd think they'd have a Canucks jersey on him instead.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Well extra year and the NTC which kind of limits the market to begin with.



We've never done that before - you would think with all the cap space we have going to waste the past few years it would have been an option but...

Who have we needed to force off the team that we would retain salary over the years?

 

[Bleedred]

I thought both goals Cory allowed were bad goals.

First one looked to be a result of him turning the puck over behind the net. Due to the crappy quality of the AHL videos and replays, maybe that's not what happened, but it sure looked like it. The way it went in might not have been bad (it was a backdoor goal), but he might have caused it with the shoddy puck work behind the net. Maybe he wasn't the one to turn the puck over though and it just looked like he did because he was wandering behind the net.

Second goal looked to beat him clean through the 5-hole (or some other orifice through him, judging by the way it went in. Looked like he got a piece of it by the way it went in) after he had time to recover and was set. Bad quality and limited replays have left me unable to completely decipher though. I don't think I would have nearly been the only one that had a problem with those goals. He played well on paper, but the goals didn't look great.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I thought both goals Cory allowed were bad goals.

First one looked to be a result of him turning the puck over behind the net. Due to the crappy quality of the AHL videos and replays, maybe that's not what happened, but it sure looked like it. The way it went in might not have been bad (it was a backdoor goal), but he might have caused it with the shoddy puck work behind the net. Maybe he wasn't the one to turn the puck over though and it just looked like he did because he was wandering behind the net.

Second goal looked to beat him clean through the 5-hole (or some other orifice through him, judging by the way it went in. Looked like he got a piece of it by the way it went in) after he had time to recover and was set. Bad quality and limited replays have left me unable to completely decipher though. I don't think I would have nearly been the only one that had a problem with those goals. He played well on paper, but the goals didn't look great.

Just saw the replays.

Goal 1: Yes Cory didn't play the puck well but I thought main reason for blame was he was still too slow moving laterally post to post.

Goal 2: Went through his arm and body. Got a piece of it so he could of done better but he got no help from his D, opposition forward was wide open only a couple of yards out. So even if he was set, a lot of time that still goes in due to the time and space the forward has to shoot.

 

[FooteBahl]

With this being our bye-week, are there any trade restrictions during this week or all star break?

Do you guys think there will be a trade before the loss against the penguins on 1/28?

 

[njdevil26]

Hey everyone... I'm interviewing Chris Ryan tonight for the podcast. Any ideas for questions besides the obvious (obvious being trades, signings, blah blah)?

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

I thought both goals Cory allowed were bad goals.

First one looked to be a result of him turning the puck over behind the net. Due to the crappy quality of the AHL videos and replays, maybe that's not what happened, but it sure looked like it. The way it went in might not have been bad (it was a backdoor goal), but he might have caused it with the shoddy puck work behind the net. Maybe he wasn't the one to turn the puck over though and it just looked like he did because he was wandering behind the net.

Second goal looked to beat him clean through the 5-hole (or some other orifice through him, judging by the way it went in. Looked like he got a piece of it by the way it went in) after he had time to recover and was set. Bad quality and limited replays have left me unable to completely decipher though. I don't think I would have nearly been the only one that had a problem with those goals. He played well on paper, but the goals didn't look great.

Very on brand to be watching AHL goals and blaming Cory for both of them. Can't knock that commitment.