Devils 2018-19 Team Discussion (news and notes) Part III

[Nubmer6]

I still will never understand people wanting to trade a goalie when the organizational goalie depth is not good.

Its OK to have both Schneider and Kinkaid on the team...

I don't find it that hard to understand. The feeling is that Kinkaid will likely bolt after this year unless he has a clearer path to being the #1. If we're unlikely to have both next year, depending on how Corey performs when he gets back and if Keith continues his current play, we have to seriously consider trading Corey to make way for Kinkaid, or to a much lesser extent, consider Kinkaid to avoid losing him for nothing.

The effect on our goalie depth is the same after this season whether we trade one or lose one to UFA.

 

[NJDevs26]

You worry about next year next year or at earliest in February if for some reason we have a playoff cushion...they're looking to make the playoffs. Getting a second round pick for KK now isn't going to move the needle all that much down the road but making the playoffs by keeping him might.

From a fans perspective yes it is... for kk AND cory its not. Right now they are clearly 1a/1b and will prob get an even split of the rest of the games once cory returns. Starting goalies need to play consistently and dont like to sit, and now that kk has been the starter he doesnt want to leave the net.

You guys act like there's never been a workable goalie contreversy on a non-Flyers team...the Isles bounced back and forth between Chico and Billy Smith for a while. Pittsburgh just recently had Fleury and Murray. It's the staff's job to figure out what's best for the two goalies, and the team. Let the goalies play well when they're in there.

 

[Drift]

Has Zacha been playing as bad as his 0 pts or is he snake bitten? I haven't had a chance to see any games but that is a concerning start.

 

[ScottyK]

Has Zacha been playing as bad as his 0 pts or is he snake bitten? I haven't had a chance to see any games but that is a concerning start.

Not nearly. He was pretty bad in the Dallas game other than that he's been snake bitten. Outside coleman our secondary scoring has been non existant. Pavel should have 3 or 4 goals if he wasn't for some bad luck. Same with with mojo, hopefully bratt coming back turns that line around

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I don't find it that hard to understand. The feeling is that Kinkaid will likely bolt after this year unless he has a clearer path to being the #1. If we're unlikely to have both next year, depending on how Corey performs when he gets back and if Keith continues his current play, we have to seriously consider trading Corey to make way for Kinkaid, or to a much lesser extent, consider Kinkaid to avoid losing him for nothing.

The effect on our goalie depth is the same after this season whether we trade one or lose one to UFA.

thats all well and good

...but we still have THIS season to play. Lets worry about NEXT season when the time comes?

 

[MadDevil]

Has Zacha been playing as bad as his 0 pts or is he snake bitten? I haven't had a chance to see any games but that is a concerning start.

He hasn't been playing poorly by any means, but it is getting a bit old using the "no luck" excuse with him.

 

[haak84]

You can worry about next year in the offseason but the window of opportunity to retain value and gain assets from our current crop of goalies will probably happen before February.

 

[bobilly45]

Not many people would notice, but since I play goalie and having been in the market and looking at new pads I want to point this out about cory. 1, looks like hes rocking all ccm gear, I believed in the past him and kk both used Vaughn pads. 2, the pads he has now has more "harder/rigid" foam in the leg pad which should be a difference for him as he has always gotten the "softer" foam in his pads. The main difference is softer pads help reduce the distance that rebounds travel, likewise the more sturdy/harder the foam inside the padding is the more a rebound can travel.
Personally I like this choice by cory to go with the more rigid foam in the pads. It's easier to kick out rebounds to the corners.

 

[Darkauron]

Or you know...we keep BOTH of them...because the goalie trade market is absolutely total shit

 

[HBK27]

Or you know...we keep BOTH of them...because the goalie trade market is absolutely total ****

Exactly.

I just don't see either one getting dealt this season. Cory's contract is a huge obstacle and he needs to come back and show he can be an elite #1 again before any other team even considers making a move for him. Kinkaid would be much easier to move, but which team still in the hunt for the playoffs come the trade deadline is in need of a goalie and is willing to give up anything of significant value for KK? And given Schneider's recent injury history, do we really want to take the chance of having to turn to Lack in the playoffs?

 

[haak84]

We keep both of them and then we lose possibly the most valuable goalie on the market in the offseason and are stuck with an aging goalie with a big contract.

 

[MadDevil]

You can worry about next year in the offseason but the window of opportunity to retain value and gain assets from our current crop of goalies will probably happen before February.

Do you see either of them returning enough to make it worth it though? I don't see Cory, with his age, contract, and recent play getting us much in return. I don't know what Kinkaid's value would be either. Talbot got a 2nd and 3rd. Darling got a 3rd.

 

[haak84]

Do you see either of them returning enough to make it worth it though? I don't see Cory, with his age, contract, and recent play getting us much in return. I don't know what Kinkaid's value would be either. Talbot got a 2nd and 3rd. Darling got a 3rd.

I said in the beginning this is all contingent on schneider coming back and showing glimpses of his former self. If thats the case than ANY return is more valuable than keeping him and potentially losing a better goalie because of Schneider's contract. It remind me of the Lundqvist Raanta/Talbot situations. Rangers had a much bigger and better window to deal Hank (besides the NTC) but never even explored it. Would hate to see the Devils in that sitch.

 

[jkrdevil]

We keep both of them and then we lose possibly the most valuable goalie on the market in the offseason and are stuck with an aging goalie with a big contract.

I think you over estimate Kinkaid value. He will be 30 when free agency comes around.

He’s playing very well and you keep both. If he walks in the offseason, good for him. You can sign another experiences back up of similar ability for a 1 or 2 year deal.

 

[haak84]

I think you over estimate Kinkaid value. He will be 30 when free agency comes around.

He’s playing very well and you keep both. If he walks in the offseason, good for him. You can sign another experiences back up of similar ability for a 1 or 2 year deal.

First, who do you sign?

Also, I think you underestimate his value and underestimating the detriment of a bad Cory lasting his whole contract. Sign KK to a 3 year extension and that means it goes to 33 when his decline will be in full swing. Even in the 3rd year you can plan for a replacement and he'll still be a cheaper backup than Schneider.

 

[jkrdevil]

Grubauer was traded for a 2nd and he is younger than Kinkaid and still an rfa. You aren’t going to get enough value for him to make a trade worthwhile.

You don’t get value in goalie trades. It is a limited value and if a team has one that is good enough they are content.

 

[jkrdevil]

First, who do you sign?

Also, I think you underestimate his value and underestimating the detriment of a bad Cory lasting his whole contract. Sign KK to a 3 year extension and that means it goes to 33 when his decline will be in full swing. Even in the 3rd year you can plan for a replacement and he'll still be a cheaper backup than Schneider.

I’m not underestimating Schneide’s Contract. If Kinkaid sustains this for the year and show he can be a starter over Schneider then you consider buying Schneider out.

 

[haak84]

There is lesser value in keeping Cory (if you can trade him for ANY value) than trading KK and being stuck with Cory.

 

[Bleedred]

I'd really contemplate signing Varlamov if we don't keep Kinkaid. He had a putrid season 2 years ago and he's extremely injury prone, but he's been really good for the better part of his career. And even when I've watched him in my goals against reviews, he's shining the eye test a lot better than a lot of guys.

Feels like they got Grubauer to replace him, but so far Grubauer hasn't been able to match his level and Varlamov has been starting most of their games.

 

[Bleedred]

While it depends on how his year goes, Kinkaid's comparables before signing his next deal will very likely be Cam Talbot, Scott Darling, Antti Raanta, and Tomas Greiss.

Right now, he's more experienced than Talbot and Darling when they signed their current deals. He's less experienced than Raanta and Greiss but a full season of 50 games would put him right into that ballpark.

Here's a fun little chart of all the comparables to Tomas Greiss with experience in GP and cap hit percentage at their respective signing age: Thomas Greiss Comparables Results - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

I was actually thinking Carter Hutton more than anything.

Talbot was a couple years younger than Kinkaid at the time Edmonton got him and had been a lot better than Kinkaid up to that point, though in significantly fewer games played. Greiss cashed in on that one really good year and dummy Garth gave it to him, and Garth is a terrible assessor of goalies. I think Darling was also a couple years younger than Kinkaid will be next year and had been quite a bit better in Chicago. Raanta was also about 2 years younger when he got to Arizona than Kinkaid will be next year.

Carter Hutton was 3 years older.

I'd be completely shocked if Kinkaid got more than $3.5 million.

 

[haak84]

I’m not underestimating Schneide’s Contract. If Kinkaid sustains this for the year and show he can be a starter over Schneider then you consider buying Schneider out.

The longer you wait the more expensive Kinkaid becomes and if there is any opportunity to move Schneider that closes. Thats what I've been saying all along. The ability to move Cory (if it happens) will be within the next couple months.

IMO Kinkaid has already shown he is capable of being a starter. He is 26-9-3 since the start of 2018.

 

[Triumph]

You can worry about next year in the offseason but the window of opportunity to retain value and gain assets from our current crop of goalies will probably happen before February.

There is no window to do this unless somehow A: The Devils are bad and B: Kinkaid is good, two things that are very unlikely to both be true. The Devils do not have a 3rd goalie who can be expected to be NHL average. Schneider's health was unreliable even before this injury. Trading a goalie is just not going to make sense, and the way that the goalie position works, it's unlikely that there is even a market for Kinkaid.

The Devils can look into moving Schneider in the off-season, picking up a good portion of his contract, or possibly buying him out if Kinkaid is good and Schneider isn't.

 

[Bleedred]

Assuming he plays as good as he did last year I don't see him staying as a backup for 3 mil per. He's going to be offered a chance to start like Raanta, Talbot, etc were offered during their career.

But the teams that are going to sign him to be their starter or maybe even their 1a/1b guy are gonna teams that are really poor or rebuilding and haven't left the ground yet. Think Vancouver maybe, or like how Buffalo did with signing Hutton this past year. Even with goalies like Raanta and Talbot. Those teams were trash and were (or are still on) on year after year of playoff drought.

If Schneider has yet another bad year, I think it's almost assuredly that we're gonna need a 50-60 game goalie next year. I think it's something that gets teams in a lot of trouble to think ''Well, we got Schneider, he's under contract for 3 more years at $18 million. Even though he sucks, we still need to play him at least 40 or 50 games because of his contract'' and just really dangerous. I don't think Shero thinks that way, but I do think there's a legitimate case to be made to Kinkaid or ANY other goalie that he wants to potentially bring in next year to say ''Look, you're gonna play at least 50 games here, maybe even 60 games here. We're not bringing you in here to be a crippled Schneider's 20-30 game backup''. Now is Kinkaid a 50-60 game goalie? I still have my doubts. This year is the only year we have the opportunity to see if Kinkaid can start 50 games before he goes to UFA.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Of course you keep both goalies this season, not even a question for Ray

 

[MadDevil]

The longer you wait the more expensive Kinkaid becomes and if there is any opportunity to move Schneider that closes. Thats what I've been saying all along. The ability to move Cory (if it happens) will be within the next couple months.

IMO Kinkaid has already shown he is capable of being a starter. He is 26-9-3 since the start of 2018.

Which is still only 38 games. He's definitely the best option we have, but I'm still not quite ready to say he's going to be a starter the next few years. I'd like to see him do it over the course of a full season first.