Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) VI - The Home Stretch

[haak84]

What else do we do? He's easier to get rid of than Schneider is.

We can't have this tandem next year, I know that much. More of an indictment on Cory not being good anymore.

See if you can trade Keith to a team that has a more reliable starter than Cory and get a guy that can play 40 games, if not possibly more and at least do a better than average job at it. A slightly better than average job at it.

Try as much as possible to move Schneider. He's not returning to '15-'16 levels. Kinkaid is the cheaper option.

You can't have 10 million tied up in your goaltending.

What is the big upgrade that we'd get over Keith for a reasonable price (2-3million).

 

[Billdo]

Holy negativity batman

I just don’t see it unless he’s like a Mason Raymond or something insignificant.

 

[JimEIV]

Uh about that I have news for you, score was already tied before the error. Buckner fields the ball and the game goes to an 11th inning tied after the Sox already blew a 5-3, two out situation.

Digression over, back to ‘team’ discussion.

Not news, I watched it when it was happening and multiple times after like I'm sure you have as well.

But you are exactly right, Buckner fields the ball the game goes on....they don't lose. But since Buckner didn't make the play they lost... demoralized heading into game 7.
Kinda like when Stevens laid out Lindros...that game was deciced that moment even though the score didn't indicate it and there some thing like 40 minutes to go... details, only details. That game and series was settled in that moment.

 

[GameSeven]

I don't think Kinkaid is a superstar. I think he can be more than a mediocre backup which you've pegged him as. It's funny that he's playing the best goaltending of his career, helping save this season and this board still wants him off the team. Actually, it's sad.

You're not reading sentiment correctly at all.

Nobody *wants* Keith off the team, but the reality is, parting ways with Cory will be a challenge due to contract and, likely, the hope that his nosedive is an outlier and that he returns to "better" form next year.

That said, in case Cory doesn't/can't, the team ought to have a better contingency plan than Keith, who has played exceptionally of late, but *probably* isn't looked on with the ability to anchor a 1A/1B pairing.

The alternative you suggest, if you want to keep Keith, is to, what? Eat 2M of Cory's cap + the cost of a replacement 1A goalie? For either 4 or 8 years if you are considering trading him retained or buying him out?

Surely you're not suggesting going into next year with the same tandem?

 

[haak84]

You're not reading sentiment correctly at all.

Nobody *wants* Keith off the team, but the reality is, parting ways with Cory will be a challenge due to contract and, likely, the hope that his nosedive is an outlier and that he returns to "better" form next year.

That said, in case Cory doesn't/can't, the team ought to have a better contingency plan than Keith, who has played exceptionally of late, but *probably* isn't looked on with the ability to anchor a 1A/1B pairing.

The alternative you suggest, if you want to keep Keith, is to, what? Eat 2M of Cory's cap + the cost of a replacement 1A goalie? For either 4 or 8 years if you are considering trading him retained or buying him out?

Surely you're not suggesting going into next year with the same tandem?

I'm not, I don't think Cory is as devalued as people suggest. First tactic would be to try and see if someone would take Cory and as much of his contract as possible. If not, I think the Devils could eat some of the cap space and find a replacement goalie around the 3-4 million mark that is comparable to Cory.

Who are you going to find as a 1a/1b goalie? Anybody decent is going to cost a few million. Then you have 10 million tied up in goaltending. If you take a chance on someone, they could be worse than what we already have.

 

[BenedictGomez]

A decent amount of the gap between average is explained by the Devils shot counter undercounting shots against.

Are you saying that at The Rock, opposing team's shots are being undercounted, which makes the Devils D look, "less worse" than they really are?

With all due respect, that's total Schneider-homerism at this point. How you can look at his abysmal play over the last 11 games and not blame him for this team's implosion is beyond me.

Because it's an 82 game season, and the 2 points in October count mathematically just as much as the 2 points in March.

Nobody was ripping Cory when he was stealing points for this rather average NHL team in October, but obviously they're complaining now that he's costing this rather average NHL team points in March.

Maybe if the Devils could score more than 1 or 2 goals per game that would help too. Ex the 8 goal Vegas anomaly, the Devils are 27th in goals scored over their last 20 games. That's out of 31 teams.

Blaming 100% of the Devils decline on the goalie position is simply taking the easy way out.

 

[Alex NJD]

We're pretty much at or almost at winout territory.

 

[theoptimist]

Dan Rosen thinks we'll make it into the playoffs. There's that.

 

[GameSeven]

We're pretty much at or almost at winout territory.

Not quite, but the margin is razor thin. Could be at that point by the weekend if things go badly.

Probably need 6-3 to have a decent shot, and that would still require some help.

I think asking for 7-2 is out of the question, maybe 6-3 is too. Hell, I'd take 5-2-2 if we can get a couple of these games to OT.

 

[NJDevs26]

Are you saying that at The Rock, opposing team's shots are being undercounted, which makes the Devils D look, "less worse" than they really are?



Because it's an 82 game season, and the 2 points in October count mathematically just as much as the 2 points in March.

Nobody was ripping Cory when he was stealing points for this rather average NHL team in October, but obviously they're complaining now that he's costing this rather average NHL team points in March.

The problem with that hypothesis is that average NHL team was scoring 3+ goals a game early in the season, the offense stole as many or more games than the goaltending did early.

 

[Bleedred]

Try as much as possible to move Schneider. He's not returning to '15-'16 levels. Kinkaid is the cheaper option.

You can't have 10 million tied up in your goaltending.

What is the big upgrade that we'd get over Keith for a reasonable price (2-3million).

I don't think he's returning to 15-16 levels either, which is why we need an upgrade to Kinkaid.

How about Jonathan Bernier? It's too much of gamble to think Kinkaid can give us .915 goaltending over 40 or more games. His hottest this stretch this season is over too small of a sample size to be confident in and when he was solid last year, it was strictly in a backup role.

Don't get me wrong, I think they'd love to get rid of Schneider at this point, especially since the goalie coach hiring didn't do help and he's now had back to back years of poor goaltending by a starters standards. But who takes him? I think we're stuck with Cory until 2020 or 2021, for better or for worse. By 2020 or 2021 there will be amnesty buyouts with the new CBA being up. And even if there isn't, his buyout hit will be small enough to safely absorb by then or maybe his groin troubles cause him to go LTIRement and we don't need to even worry about his cap hit anymore?

If not, we need to hope for a Pekka Rinne-like rebirth from him in his elder years.

 

[Darkauron]

Wood is ALIVE. Praise jebus

 

[haak84]

Are you saying that at The Rock, opposing team's shots are being undercounted, which makes the Devils D look, "less worse" than they really are?



Because it's an 82 game season, and the 2 points in October count mathematically just as much as the 2 points in March.

Nobody was ripping Cory when he was stealing points for this rather average NHL team in October, but obviously they're complaining now that he's costing this rather average NHL team points in March.

Maybe if the Devils could score more than 1 or 2 goals per game that would help too. Ex the 8 goal Vegas anomaly, the Devils are 27th in goals scored over their last 20 games. That's out of 31 teams.

Blaming 100% of the Devils decline on the goalie position is simply taking the easy way out.

We scored 32 goals in 7 game sin October. Cory wasn't stealing games until late November and early December. Thats the only time this season where he was in top form. Coincidentally we looked like a contender.

 

[haak84]

I don't think he's a returning to 15-16 levels either, which is why we need an upgrade to Kinkaid.

How about Jonathan Bernier? It's too much of gamble to think Kinkaid can give us .915 goaltending over 40 or more games. His hottest this stretch this season is over too small of a sample size to be confident in and when he was solid last year, it was strictly in a backup role.

Don't get me wrong, I think they'd love to get rid of Schneider at this point, especially since the goalie coach hiring didn't do help and he's now had back to back years of poor goaltending by a starters standards. But who takes him? I think we're stuck with Cory until 2020 or 2021, for better or for worse. By 2020 or 2021 there will be amnesty buyouts with the new CBA being up. And even if there isn't, his buyout hit will be small enough to safely absorb by then or maybe his groin troubles cause him to go LTIRement and we don't need to even worry about his cap hit anymore?

If not, we need to hope for a Pekka Rinne-like rebirth from him in his elder years.

I don't think Bernier is much of an upgrade over Kinkaid. The have practically the same stats this season but bernier is almost $3 million more. He more than likely wants a pay increase and would cost 3-4 million. He also is 29 and probably looking for multiple years. Would much rather ride Keith for a season and then see where Cory and the market are at.

 

[JimEIV]

Cory had a .909 SV% in October and he was stealing games?

Hmmm.

 

[haak84]

I mean this scenario is why I really REALLY wanted Raanta. Even though that was probably off the table.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

We're pretty much at or almost at winout territory.

yeah not really.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

 

[Bleedred]

I don't think Bernier is much of an upgrade over Kinkaid. The have practically the same stats this season but bernier is almost $3 million more. He more than likely wants a pay increase and would cost 3-4 million. He also is 29 and probably looking for multiple years. Would much rather ride Keith for a season and then see where Cory and the market are at.

If Raanta is available, we need to take a stab at him. I don't think he will be, but if he is, that's definitely worth a heavy pursuit right now. I'd really like to stay away from ''Backup'' backups if we're making a change. Carter Hutton is having a FLUKE season and he's really not better than Kinkaid. Johnson isn't any good, might not be in the league anymore after this. Montoya, those are all scrubs. If Keith can maintain this level of play through seasons end? You consider giving him more of a look next year, I guess. I wouldn't put Cory in at all at this point, he's been a cyanide pill right now.

Cory had a .909 SV% in October and he was stealing games?

Hmmm.

I thought he looked pretty poor in October. It was November and definitely December where he looked like he was back to the Cory that we had before last year.

 

[R8Devs]

We're pretty much at or almost at winout territory.

100 point requirement to make the playoffs would be pretty wild

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

by the way, that means Zacha is going to play. They wouldn't have made him fly out there if he wasn't going to

Wood/Zacha in, Stafford/Bratt (I guess) out is my guess

 

[haak84]

If Raanta is available, we need to take a stab at him. I don't think he will be, but if he is, that's definitely worth a heavy pursuit right now. I'd really like to stay away from ''Backup'' backups if we're making a change. Carter Hutton is having a FLUKE season and he's really not better than Kinkaid. Johnson isn't any good, might not be in the league anymore after this. Montoya, those are all scrubs. If Keith can maintain this level of play through seasons end? You consider giving him more of a look next year, I guess. I wouldn't put Cory in at all at this point, he's been a cyanide pill right now.

I thought he looked pretty poor in October. It was November and definitely December where he looked like he was back to the Cory that we had before last year.

Thats exactly why moving Keith makes no sense. We are not going to find a better upgrade that doesn't cost us an arm and a leg.

 

[MartyOwns]

But this is all about the 6th round pick angle. Which shouldn't carry much weight given he should have went way higher.

Him being 19 shouldn't carry any weight if we are judging overall career.

i believe what he's saying is, as a 6th round pick, if he ended his nhl career with 10 points that would have been a success, given the probability of 6th rounders to even sniff the nhl. so him having 35 points (.5 PPG) at all, let alone in one year, automatically makes him (and his rookie year) a huge success. which, as oddball of a thing that is to say, is accurate.

 

[HischierSeDgewOrk]

Zacha and wood back is big.

 

[hidek91]

Try as much as possible to move Schneider. He's not returning to '15-'16 levels. Kinkaid is the cheaper option.

You can't have 10 million tied up in your goaltending.

What is the big upgrade that we'd get over Keith for a reasonable price (2-3million).

I think Schneider can bounce back, almost all elite goalies had bad seasons as well. But moving Schneider right now, with that contract would be very costly e. g. McLeod or Zacha would have to be added, just to dump him. That's why I'd keep him and hope he bounces back, we don't have other options.

Big upgrade over Kinkaid for 2-3M ain't gonna happen.