Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) VI - The Home Stretch

[JimEIV]

I thought he looked pretty poor in October. It was November and definitely December where he looked like he was back to the Cory that we had before last year.

He had .924 in November but he only won 4 of 7 games. 4-4-3

 

[Bleedred]

Thats exactly why moving Keith makes no sense. We are not going to find a better upgrade that doesn't cost us an arm and a leg.

But at the end of the day though, Kinkaid is still a backup and I think next year we need a starter-ish guy, because the trend isn't looking very favorable for Cory to bounce back. That's two straight years of poor goaltending. If he does bounce back, it might be in a backup/much lower starter workload like Giguere in his last few seasons. He's another goalie that was elite, fell off around 30-31 years old, but was able to have a couple good seasons in a much reduced workload into his 30's. I could see us having a .910% or sub .910% team save percentage again next year and it being the difference in the playoffs by a few points.

 

[BenedictGomez]

We scored 32 goals in 7 game sin October. Cory wasn't stealing games until late November and early December.

Okay, so November/December rather than October, but the meaning is the same, the 2 points are worth the same every month of the year, and blaming the goalie for the team missing the playoffs is (horribly) weak sauce.

 

[Bleedred]

I think Schneider can bounce back, almost all elite goalies had bad seasons as well. But moving Schneider right now, with that contract would be very costly e. g. McLeod or Zacha would have to be added, just to dump him. That's why I'd keep him and hope he bounces back, we don't have other options.

Big upgrade over Kinkaid for 2-3M ain't gonna happen.

People keep saying that almost all elite goalies had bad seasons, especially in that main board thread. I've already seen a couple ''It's a down year, he'll bounce back'' posts, but it's not a down year anymore. It's now two down years. The only goalie off the top of my head in recent years to have a couple poor seasons, then regain form is Pekka Rinne. He had a couple lousy years in 12-13 and 13-14, where he played fewer games in those two years than Cory has in these last two years (he was injured for a lot of 13-14) and then had a really good 14-15, where it looked like those were just two lousy, injury plagued/shortened seasons. Then he came back in 15-16 and was lousy again. Now he's had two good seasons in a row for the first time since he was in his 20's. This might be the best year he's had and he's gonna win the Vezina at 35 probably. Sadly, this is reminding me more of what's happened to Kari Lehtonen and Cam Ward in recent years.

Only difference is that Ward was never really a great goalie for long, he just had a middle of his career stretch where he was really good and stunk in his first few years and his last 6 years or so. Lehtonen was very good, but still not as good as Cory was before their respective down seasons started.

 

[haak84]

But at the end of the day though, Kinkaid is still a backup and I think next year we need a starter-ish guy, because the trend isn't looking very favorable for Cory to bounce back. That's two straight years of poor goaltending. If he does bounce back, it might be in a backup/much lower starter workload like Giguere in his last few seasons. He's another goalie that was elite, fell off around 30-31 years old, but was able to have a couple good seasons in a much reduced workload into his 30's. I could see us having a .910% or sub .910% team save percentage again next year and it being the difference in the playoffs by a few points.

so its either kinkaid and cory or cory plus a 1b.

that 1b will cost 3-4 million and probably want a mid term deal.

so thats 10 million locked up in tandem goaltending over the next four seasons. doesnt seem smart.

roll with what we have and if cory bounces back then we dont need a 1b. if kinkaid steps up then he is the 1b.

not seeing any other options

 

[markog]

Gibbons left the practice, hope everything is ok.

 

[Bologna 1]

i would go bonkers if shero could somehow pull off a deal for OEL around the draft. and maybe even figure some way to make it work to get Raanta's rights along with it. You would finally have a legit top pair with he and vatanen.

 

[MartyOwns]

People keep saying that almost all elite goalies had bad seasons, especially in that main board thread. I've already seen a couple ''It's a down year, he'll bounce back'' posts, but it's not a down year anymore. It's now two down years. The only goalie off the top of my head in recent years to have a couple poor seasons, then regain form is Pekka Rinne. He had a couple lousy years in 12-13 and 13-14, where he played fewer games in those two years than Cory has in these last two years (he was injured for a lot of 13-14) and then had a really good 14-15, where it looked like those were just two lousy, injury plagued/shortened seasons. Then he came back in 15-16 and was lousy again. Now he's had two good seasons in a row for the first time since he was in his 20's. This might be the best year he's had and he's gonna win the Vezina at 35 probably. Sadly, this is reminding me more of what's happened to Kari Lehtonen and Cam Ward in recent years.

Only difference is that Ward was never really a great goalie for long, he just had a middle of his career stretch where he was really good and stunk in his first few years and his last 6 years or so. Lehtonen was very good, but still not as good as Cory was before their respective down seasons started.

remember the rinne vs lundqvist nonsense? good times

anyway, i do agree with most of that, but if cory's issues last year were mostly related to the garbage playing in front of him, and his issues this year are grundle-related, i really don't see any reason why he can't come back next year and give us average-to-slightly above average goaltending. i'm still somewhat optimistic about that

 

[Bleedred]

so its either kinkaid and cory or cory plus a 1b.

that 1b will cost 3-4 million and probably want a mid term deal.

so thats 10 million locked up in tandem goaltending over the next four seasons. doesnt seem smart.

roll with what we have and if cory bounces back then we dont need a 1b. if kinkaid steps up then he is the 1b.

not seeing any other options

Well the idea for me is that we won't be acquiring a guy to sign for 4 years, though Raanta likely would command a 4 year deal.

Whatever happens, I don't think Schneider's gonna be here after the 2019-2020 season. Maybe he'll be here for the 2020-2021 season at the latest. I think by then he'll either be bought out (amnesty or regular), traded to the Florida Panthers for retired Luongo's recapture penalty cap hit and maybe some retained salary (LOL) or to some team that's in a rebuild and not competing or the possibly permanent LTIR, though I think that's the least likely, but only because we don't know what the extent of his injuries are like right now. I don't think he'll bounce back to what he was, at least not consistently and I thought he would bounce back before this season, but 2 bad years and I'm almost completely counting that out now.

 

[Bleedred]

remember the rinne vs lundqvist nonsense? good times

anyway, i do agree with most of that, but if cory's issues last year were mostly related to the garbage playing in front of him, and his issues this year are grundle-related, i really don't see any reason why he can't come back next year and give us average-to-slightly above average goaltending. i'm still somewhat optimistic about that

Hey, I mean Rinne wasn't that good a couple years ago, but he's having a monster season and he was solid last year in the season and even better in the playoffs. There was one point where Rinne had 3 pretty meh seasons in 4 years, but he's definitely looking as good as he did in his 20's right now.

If he can give us .915 goaltending, I think we'll be fine. I would consider that bouncing back at this point. .920% is probably too much to ask for him to ever get back to. Marty had better seasons in his mid 30's than he did for a lot of his 20's, but that's a bad example. I still consider 07-08 to be the best season Marty ever had.

 

[Bleedred]

Maybe Shero can go pay him a visit like he did to Hall last offseason and say ''We feel you were only giving 30% of your potential the last 2 seasons'' or whatever. Maybe it does something? Sports psychologist? Worked for MAF.

I'm just grasping at straws at this point.

 

[Zippy316]

It really should be interesting what the Devils do this summer as far as goaltending.

First, you have to decide what to do with Schneider and Kinkaid. I highly doubt Schneider gets moved and as you can see from the following list, even with his struggles, I'd rather bank on Schneider as the #1 then this next group of guys.

Kinkaid might've given himself an opportunity at a bigger role. I could see the Devils looking to cash him in for assets if they feel they can sign one of the guys below. Could see the Devils valuing the experience of some of the RFA/UFAs this year

Lehner -- RFA but he requested a trade in March. May not get tendered at his current 4 million dollar AAV.
Mrazek -- RFA but he might also not get tendered at his current 4 million AAV.
Bernier -- He has his moments, but he has his moments where he can be a quality tandem goalie.
Darling -- This isn't going to be popular, but so be it. I could see Carolina trying to get rid of him and I don't think he's as bad as he's shown. Honestly, I think he has the athleticism, size, and puck handling ability that would fit in well with the Devils system if he can rebound.
Halak -- Islanders defense is horrendous so I give him a pass. Think he could be a reliable tandem goalie.
Raanta -- UFA at years end. Coyotes may let him walk after trading for and extending Kuemper.

If you're looking for a serious up and comer, Grubauer could be an option as well. Probably the most interesting name that could be available, but he would come at a cost.

 

[haak84]

It really should be interesting what the Devils do this summer as far as goaltending.

First, you have to decide what to do with Schneider and Kinkaid. I highly doubt Schneider gets moved and as you can see from the following list, even with his struggles, I'd rather bank on Schneider as the #1 then this next group of guys.

Kinkaid might've given himself an opportunity at a bigger role. I could see the Devils looking to cash him in for assets if they feel they can sign one of the guys below. Could see the Devils valuing the experience of some of the RFA/UFAs this year

Lehner -- RFA but he requested a trade in March. May not get tendered at his current 4 million dollar AAV.
Mrazek -- RFA but he might also not get tendered at his current 4 million AAV.
Bernier -- He has his moments, but he has his moments where he can be a quality tandem goalie.
Darling -- This isn't going to be popular, but so be it. I could see Carolina trying to get rid of him and I don't think he's as bad as he's shown. Honestly, I think he has the athleticism, size, and puck handling ability that would fit in well with the Devils system if he can rebound.
Halak -- Islanders defense is horrendous so I give him a pass. Think he could be a reliable tandem goalie.
Raanta -- UFA at years end. Coyotes may let him walk after trading for and extending Kuemper.

If you're looking for a serious up and comer, Grubauer could be an option as well. Probably the most interesting name that could be available, but he would come at a cost.

As everyone knows, I'd take Raanta in a heartbeat.

As for the other goalies. They are all almost much more expensive than Keith and have a look for yourself:

were not going to find that magical 1b goalie who is much better than kinkaid because they don't exist.

 

[Bleedred]

It really should be interesting what the Devils do this summer as far as goaltending.

First, you have to decide what to do with Schneider and Kinkaid. I highly doubt Schneider gets moved and as you can see from the following list, even with his struggles, I'd rather bank on Schneider as the #1 then this next group of guys.

Kinkaid might've given himself an opportunity at a bigger role. I could see the Devils looking to cash him in for assets if they feel they can sign one of the guys below. Could see the Devils valuing the experience of some of the RFA/UFAs this year

Lehner -- RFA but he requested a trade in March. May not get tendered at his current 4 million dollar AAV.
Mrazek -- RFA but he might also not get tendered at his current 4 million AAV.
Bernier -- He has his moments, but he has his moments where he can be a quality tandem goalie.
Darling -- This isn't going to be popular, but so be it. I could see Carolina trying to get rid of him and I don't think he's as bad as he's shown. Honestly, I think he has the athleticism, size, and puck handling ability that would fit in well with the Devils system if he can rebound.
Halak -- Islanders defense is horrendous so I give him a pass. Think he could be a reliable tandem goalie.
Raanta -- UFA at years end. Coyotes may let him walk after trading for and extending Kuemper.

If you're looking for a serious up and comer, Grubauer could be an option as well. Probably the most interesting name that could be available, but he would come at a cost.

Darling is worse than he's shown this year. I don't understand how he has an .885% and not an .850%. That .885% is flattering. I think plain luck is the reason that he has an .885% and not an .850%. Because it's almost impossible for a goalie to have an .850% over 40 games played. Even if you took a high school goalie and played him in the NHL in 40 games, he might struggle to maintain an .850% or lower for that many games.

Trust me, I have went out of my way to watch Darling's highlights most games after Canes fans accused me of stat watching with Ward in past year, so I went and watched both this year and Ward is lousy, but 50% of the goals Darling allows are at least stoppable. 4 of the 7 from last game, he allowed 4 stoppable goals out of 5 against us last month. I've seen him play games where he allows 4 goals and all 4 were stoppable and they lose the 4-3

Now maybe Darling isn't as bad as he's been this year? But he's been as bad, if not worse than those numbers. Ask any Canes fans, they're saying the same thing on the mainboard. He doesn't have any athleticism at all. He looks like an out of shape oaf, to be perfectly honest with you. He has a lot of trouble getting over to the other post. He looks like conditioning is not where it needs to be and maybe that's exactly what it is this year and a weight loss/conditioning plan helps him? Whatever the case, I want nothing to do with him.

No to Mrazek, he's worse than Kinkaid. Don't let DD fool you on that one.
Bernier? Decent option.
I like Lehner, I think he's pretty good. Outside of this year he's had a very good tenure on a very bad Buffalo team.
Halak? He's probably good enough to be a backup. Is he better than Kinkaid at this stage? I don't think so. It's a toss up.
Raanta? Yes, if he's available.

No to Mrazek and Darling, neither are better than Kinkaid. Same goes for Hutton, McElhinney, Montoya, Johnson, etc. Lehtonen looks about done. Niemi has been great in Montreal, but he's probably close to cooked too.

 

[haak84]

Kinkaid is currently 21st in GSAA for goalies that have started over 25 games. Schneider is currently 19th.

Theres just not much to choose from and Kinkaid has been a middle of the pack STARTING goalie this season. Not a mediocre backup.

Can he maintain this level of play? Probably not but it's not like he is getting lucky or the team defense is propping up a below average goalie. His skills are legit. He has great movement (sometimes too much) a great glove hand, great game awareness and decent puckhandling. If he can keep up his confidence like he's shown since taken over the starting role than he is more than fine as a 1b. Factor in that he makes $1 million a season and the goalie options just posted all make about $4 million per season, he is also one of the most cost effective goalies.

 

[MullerBrotenVerbeek]

things i've done since the devils last appeared in the playoffs:

-graduated high school
-got my first car as a hand-me-down
-got my first office job
-burned a kovalchuk t-shirt in my backyard for instagram because irrational teenager
-moved from my hometown
-dated for a little bit/broke up
-visited italy
-moved back to my hometown
-crashed my first car
-purchased my second car with my own money
-got my second office job
-graduated from college
-got a full-time position at my second office job
-visited canada
-devils season tickets
-started applying to grad school

what happens in this next chapter of life in north jersey? stay tuned.

This should be it's own thread. "What has happened in your life since the NJD last made the playoffs"

 

[Nubmer6]

As everyone knows, I'd take Raanta in a heartbeat.

So you're Pro-Antti Raanta?

I'll just show myself out the door now.

 

[Bleedred]

As everyone knows, I'd take Raanta in a heartbeat.

As for the other goalies. They are all almost much more expensive than Keith and have a look for yourself:

were not going to find that magical 1b goalie who is much better than kinkaid because they don't exist.

I'd take Lehner over him, but he's not UFA is he? So I'm assuming he gets paid millions.

Mrazek is a f***in bum, I've been saying it for over a year now. Cechmanek 2.0, only Cechmanek has more good seasons and was a little bit older by the time he came over.

 

[NjDevsRR]

So you're Pro-Antti Raanta?

 

[Darkauron]

This should be it's own thread. "What has happened in your life since the NJD last made the playoffs"

That would be pretty funny.

The last time I had a real girlfriend the devils made the playoffs. I have not had a long term girlfriend since then.. Coincidence? I think not. I'm sorry guys it is all MY FAULT.

 

[Bleedred]

things i've done since the devils last appeared in the playoffs:

-graduated high school
-got my first car as a hand-me-down
-got my first office job
-burned a kovalchuk t-shirt in my backyard for instagram because irrational teenager
-moved from my hometown
-dated for a little bit/broke up
-visited italy
-moved back to my hometown
-crashed my first car
-purchased my second car with my own money
-got my second office job
-graduated from college
-got a full-time position at my second office job
-visited canada
-devils season tickets
-started applying to grad school

what happens in this next chapter of life in north jersey? stay tuned.

I got a fun one I guess.

My beard frickin went almost completely gray. I had a playoff beard in 2012 and I don't think it had any gray at all. Mostly just black, with some assorted blonde and red hairs. I don't grow a beard, outside of a couple days of stubble in between shaves, but it's going gray.
I went from my 30's to 40's (where the f*** did time go?)
I've had sex since then, even though it feels way longer.
I've had a relationship since then, even though it feels like that was a lifetime ago
One of my cats died. He was like 15?
One of my dogs died, he was right around 14
Have the same cars, job and house, but I was living here less than a year the last time we made the playoffs. I moved from Jersey in September of 2011.
My kitchen is now updated from The original cabinets from 1980. My friend got me new cabinets for Christmas this past year.
I've seen the Devils win one game in Sunrise!
I've seen the Devils win two games in Tampa!
Saw two games at Prudential Center, which were Marty and Patty's jersey retirements!
I lost over 100 pounds!
Reconnected with an old FWB, found out she's now a drug addict, re-disconnected from her permanently.
Think that's all that's worth bringing up?

 

[haak84]

man Cory also lost 13 of 14 games to end the season last year too. Kinkaid seems to be a late season goalie as well. in '15-'16 Cory lost 9 of 11 to end the season.

In his final 15 games of the last 4 years (including this one). Schneider is:

13-38-9
2.88 GAA
.902 save %

I know thats partly the Devils crapping the bed and running out of steam but Cory seems to hit a wall at the 40-50 games played mark.

Devils should just play Cory for the first 40 games and Kinkaid for the final 41. Problem solved

 

[New Jersey]

In his final 15 games of the last 4 years (including this one). Schneider is:

13-38-9
2.88 GAA
.902 save %

i'm still not sure if we tanked or we were just that awful.

regardless, the end product of that is nico hischier.

 

[haak84]

i'm still not sure if we tanked or we were just that awful.

regardless, the end product of that is nico hischier.

Amen. He is going to be the savior.

 

[markog]

man Cory also lost 13 of 14 games to end the season last year too. Kinkaid seems to be a late season goalie as well. in '15-'16 Cory lost 9 of 11 to end the season.

In his final 15 games of the last 4 years (including this one). Schneider is:

13-38-9
2.88 GAA
.902 save %

I know thats partly the Devils crapping the bed and running out of steam but Cory seems to hit a wall at the 40-50 games played mark.

Devils should just play Cory for the first 40 games and Kinkaid for the final 41. Problem solved

Those save % and GAA aren't that bad based on overall record and they're probably a bit inflated by this years bad performances.