Devils 2015-16 team discussion (player news & notes) part XIII

[Zippy316]

What if.....
We went nuclear and traded Schnieder at the draft?

We better be getting a top forward and young NHL goalie if that were to happen.

 

[NJDevs26]

Exactly. What was the alternative here, exactly?

"Nah, keep the 2nd next year. I'll take three 5ths this year, please." If you agree that a 2nd next year in a stronger draft is OBVIOUSLY a better asset than a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. this year in a weak draft, then what are we arguing about? I'll gladly eat that extra year of development if it affords the team a better chance of getting an actual NHL player. Schneider or no Schneider.

That's overstating it. The normal rule of thumb is each year is worth one round, that's why you sometimes see (especially in the NFL) teams trade first rounders next year for a second this year, or a fourth next year for a fifth this year. You never see those trades more than one round apart though, you don't see third-rounders this year being traded for firsts the year after.

 

[JimEIV]

That's overstating it. The normal rule of thumb is each year is worth one round, that's why you sometimes see (especially in the NFL) teams trade first rounders next year for a second this year, or a fourth next year for a fifth this year. You never see those trades more than one round apart though, you don't see third-rounders this year being traded for firsts the year after.

Precisely! And that's why I said it was essentially a 3rd and a 4th...For some reason that seemed to annoy some people?

 

[Emperoreddy]

What if.....
We went nuclear and traded Schnieder at the draft?

It would signal the plan is a 5+ year rebuild with some tanking.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

That's overstating it. The normal rule of thumb is each year is worth one round, that's why you sometimes see (especially in the NFL) teams trade first rounders next year for a second this year, or a fourth next year for a fifth this year. You never see those trades more than one round apart though, you don't see third-rounders this year being traded for firsts the year after.

That's true. Really, the point I'm making the one you already made. The equation changes with the quality of the draft. We've already heard that the talent pool thins hard by the late first round. I don't think it's ridiculous to say a second this year is pushing a fourth next year. I'll take my chances with the pick giving us the highest likelihood of a hockey player that helps this team. All this talk of development time isn't addressing the situation as it stood/stands.

Worry about development time if you want. I want an NHL player.

 

[LeedsMonster]

It would signal the plan is a 5+ year rebuild with some tanking.

Would definitely be risky. I'd rather try to put a good team in front of him, but if we can't in the next year or two......?

 

[Emperoreddy]

Precisely! And that's why I said it was essentially a 3rd and a 4th...For some reason that seemed to annoy some people?

Well a 3rd and two 4ths if you count the Gely trade. That is the total haul.

I think some people see 2nd and keep forgetting that asterisk that goes with it that its a 2017 2nd which does change its value as far as this year goes.

Lots of talk about trading this 2017 2nd for another Kyle like player, but the pick we traded for Kyle did not have the same value as this 2017 2nd has.

Maybe we can still get something done, but its not an exciting haul. Most likely the best we could do, but it is still a pretty meh return. Nothing to get excited about.

 

[Emperoreddy]

That's true. Really, the point I'm making the one you already made. The equation changes with the quality of the draft. We've already heard that the talent pool thins hard by the late first round. I don't think it's ridiculous to say a second this year is pushing a fourth next year. I'll take my chances with the pick giving us the highest likelihood of a hockey player that helps this team. All this talk of development time isn't addressing the situation as it stood/stands.

Worry about development time if you want. I want an NHL player.

Do we even know the quality of next year's draft though? It could be just a thin, thinner, and if it is deeper it might not be THAT much deeper.

A lot of assuming it seems that 2017 is going to be a better draft when I think all we know is this year's draft is thin.

 

[HenriquesJawLine]

What if.....
We went nuclear and traded Schnieder at the draft?

Then we would theoretically be getting something like Ehlers and Hellebuyck

 

[NJDevs26]

Do we even know the quality of next year's draft though? It could be just a thin, thinner, and if it is deeper it might not be THAT much deeper.

A lot of assuming it seems that 2017 is going to be a better draft when I think all we know is this year's draft is thin.

If it's a worse draft then it was a terrible job only getting a 2017 2nd. I'm not a draftnik so I don't pay too much attention to what draft is supposedly better or not, and think it's near impossible to tell those things so far in advance. But right now I have to think there's a reason the two highest picks they got were both 2017 picks (the 2nd in the Stemp trade, the 3rd in the Gelly trade).

 

[LeedsMonster]

Then we would theoretically be getting something like Ehlers and Hellebuyck

I'd take Hellebuyck, Lemieux, and a 1st for Cory and a later pick.

 

[HischieR13]

I was just on general fanager, am I reading this right? we have 4 forwards signed for next season? 4?!

(Blandisi, Henrique, cammy, zajac)

 

[Emperoreddy]

If it's a worse draft then it was a terrible job only getting a 2017 2nd. I'm not a draftnik so I don't pay too much attention to what draft is supposedly better or not, and think it's near impossible to tell those things so far in advance. But right now I have to think there's a reason the two highest picks they got were both 2017 picks (the 2nd in the Stemp trade, the 3rd in the Gelly trade).

I didn't check but did Colorado or Boston have those picks in this year's draft? Felt like teams traded away picks from this year to get extra picks and jump up spots in last years draft.

 

[LeedsMonster]

If it's a worse draft then it was a terrible job only getting a 2017 2nd. I'm not a draftnik so I don't pay too much attention to what draft is supposedly better or not, and think it's near impossible to tell those things in advance. But right now I have to think there's a reason the two highest picks they got were both 2017 picks (the 2nd in the Stemp trade, the 3rd in the Gelly trade).

There is definitely a drop off after about the top 10...but the end of the first through the beginning of the fourth actually looks pretty stacked to me. Haven't seen enough of the next class to form an opinion

 

[Emperoreddy]

I was just on general fanager, am I reading this right? we have 4 forwards signed for next season? 4?!

(Blandisi, Henrique, cammy, zajac)

Ya but we have a few RFAs which is easy to deal with, and the rest is the bottom 6 garbage.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Do we even know the quality of next year's draft though? It could be just a thin, thinner, and if it is deeper it might not be THAT much deeper.

A lot of assuming it seems that 2017 is going to be a better draft when I think all we know is this year's draft is thin.

The speculation is it's stronger. I know it's shooting from the hip a bit over a year away, but a few months before the 2016 draft, we have a better idea where that one stands and it's not great.

 

[ScottyK]

Custance said tallon wouldnt trade pirri to a eastern team. You can stop hanging shero now

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Precisely! And that's why I said it was essentially a 3rd and a 4th...For some reason that seemed to annoy some people?

Well it's factually incorrect, especially when considering it's a particularly weak draft year. Again, would you rather draft a Matteau type guy this year in the 2nd or Severson the year after? I don't think you need to answer that one.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Ok if I'm looking at it right. Boston does not have a 2nd this year unless the Oilers send them theirs for Chiralli. I think Tampa has their 2nd.

So that explains that one. Colorado did have a third this year, but I imagine they just didn't think Gely was worth a 3rd this year. Imagine it was either a 4th this year or a 3rd next year and Shero took the 3rd.

 

[kiwidevil]

Custance said tallon wouldnt trade pirri to a eastern team. You can stop hanging shero now

Don't be ridiculous. I heard we offered our 2017 1st rounder for him. But Tallon said "that it's Barely worth a 2016 6th rounder", so he went with the ANA deal.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Well it's factually incorrect, especially when considering it's a particularly weak draft year. Again, would you rather draft a Matteau type guy this year in the 2nd or Severson the year after? I don't think you need to answer that one.

That is hyperbole though. We don't know if next year's draft is going to be that much stronger.

Jersey Fresh said it sounds like it might be stronger, but its hard to tell this far out.

 

[NJDevs26]

Ok if I'm looking at it right. Boston does not have a 2nd this year unless the Oilers send them theirs for Chiralli. I think Tampa has their 2nd.

So that explains that one. Colorado did have a third this year, but I imagine they just didn't think Gely was worth a 3rd this year. Imagine it was either a 4th this year or a 3rd next year and Shero took the 3rd.

I don't think Boston was the only team offering a 2, though maybe Shero wanted to do Stemp a solid and trade him someplace he has family in if he was going to deal him off.

The Gelinas one in a vaccum makes sense since we didn't think he had 3rd value this year either lol

Custance said tallon wouldnt trade pirri to a eastern team. You can stop hanging shero now

It's called backtracking after the fact with their dopey leaks. They wouldn't take a 6 from a West team if they had offers of 2's and 3's like they claimed they did from East teams. Why would that even matter this year (West-East) if he's hurt anyway? They weren't getting offers from anyone, this is just a weak sauce excuse.

 

[MadDevil]

Ok if I'm looking at it right. Boston does not have a 2nd this year unless the Oilers send them theirs for Chiralli. I think Tampa has their 2nd.

So that explains that one. Colorado did have a third this year, but I imagine they just didn't think Gely was worth a 3rd this year. Imagine it was either a 4th this year or a 3rd next year and Shero took the 3rd.

Plus it replaces the 3rd we used in the Ruutu deal.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I really don't understand the problem? Going into today I thought it was assumed that a 2nd round pick would be equal value for Stemps. We got one plus a 4th rounder. Years be damned it's still an asset, and a pretty good one given that Stemps was brought in on a PTO. Is it wanting immediate satisfaction, and waiting that extra year would be killer? That's the only thing I can think of.