Devils 2015-16 team discussion (player news & notes) part XIII

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Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
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Under normal circumstances yes a pick today is worth more than a pick tomorrow. But if you're telling me the 2017 draft > 2016 draft in terms of quality I'd have to think it offsets that rule of thumb at least to a degree, no?

The time still is a factor, more so with us because we do have a certain amount of time to get something going here, and its basically however long Cory's best years last.

Basically we need to flip some of these picks into something useful and much closer to ready at the draft, as a 2nd next really doesn't hold much value to us on its own.

Otherwise its really just a shuffling deck chairs move. We don't really have 5 or 6 years to get this going without absolutely wasting one of our best assets.
 

SteveCangialosi123

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This is an exercise I've thought about a few times. Let's say you have the 1st Overall and are about to happily draft Auston Matthews, but then I offer your my team's firsts a year from now, three years from now, and five years from now. Would you take that deal? Let's say this is the Oilers and the Devils talking. The Oilers trade us Matthews, but what are they getting back. Our 1st next year could easily end up being a top 10 pick, but could just as easily end up around 20-22 range. 3 and 5 years from now is almost impossible to predict. What if we were to say instead that it will be our pick this year, next year, and the year after? That's much more attractive because then you have more of an idea of where the picks will be, who you can draft with those picks, and you will reap your rewards sooner.

Most people would probably trade the 1st overall for three guaranteed top 10 picks, but are far less likely to do it for three picks that may or may not be top 10.

I disagree with Jim's analysis that the Stempniak trade is bad because the 2nd is next year, but he's not wrong that picks now are more valuable than picks later. You have more information on where in the 2nd round your pick will be and more information on who will still be available in that area. Yes the draft may be deeper or more shallow, but that is at worst offset by the greater information.

Think about our 2nd round choices recently

2010: Merrill debut November 2013
2011: none
2012: Severson debut October 2014
2013: Santini likely debut next year
2014: Jacbos likely at least 1 year away
2015: Blackwood won't even be on the radar for the big club for another 3-4 years

The general consensus is that these are all better than average prospects for 2nd rounders, and even still outside of Severson it takes them at least 3-4 years to become NHL players. Adding or subtracting a year to that development time is huge, and so a pick being in next year's draft over this year's is certainly a significant factor into value.

This is all fair, but we can and likely will move the pick to either move up in this year's draft or trade for a developed player.
 

Emperoreddy

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This is all fair, but we can and likely will move the pick to either move up in this year's draft or trade for a developed player.

Yes we can, maybe, but right now its just a bunch of ifs and maybes. Can't fault people for being apprehensive until something actually happens.

If Kilhorn or one of Tampa's other RFAs end up here, or one of Edmonton's forwards then its a totally different story.
 

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The time still is a factor, more so with us because we do have a certain amount of time to get something going here, and its basically however long Cory's best years last.

Basically we need to flip some of these picks into something useful and much closer to ready at the draft, as a 2nd next really doesn't hold much value to us on its own.

Otherwise its really just a shuffling deck chairs move. We don't really have 5 or 6 years to get this going without absolutely wasting one of our best assets.

I don't expect us to be drafting too much after this draft. Any picks 2017 and on should be available - make mostly forward picks this year in the 1st and 2nd rounds and then the rest on whatever. Our picks after 2016 can all be traded away for all I care, as long as it is for youth or under 30 top 6 players.
 

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Considering he is our best player and we have up a 9th overall for him, yes they have to. If not they should trade him.

You can't keep Cory and not attempt to put a winning team around him. It is one or the other.

This.

We are no longer rebuilding, we finished the rebuild essentially, now we are retooling for next season.
 

SteveCangialosi123

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Yes we can, maybe, but right now its just a bunch of ifs and maybes. Can't fault people for being apprehensive until something actually happens.

If Kilhorn or one of Tampa's other RFAs end up here, or one of Edmonton's forwards then its a totally different story.

Shero's job was to get as much value as he could for non-core players at the deadline when it was clear that we were out of contention. I think he did a nice job of that. Especially if we sign Stemp.
 

MadDevil

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I don't want to sound like Jim, but the more this crap goes on the more I'm in the "he is the worst thing to happen to this franchise" team.

I blame Vanderbeek. If he didn't push Lou to sign Kovy we don't give him that ridiculous contract and end up with the subsequent headaches.

But then without Kovy the 2012 run probably doesn't happen. So I guess you can look at it both positively and negatively.
 

JimEIV

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If the player we draft next year is better than someone we could draft this year, I don't care about one year of development.And we just made the Palmieri trade that involved a 2nd rounder. Don't you remember?Lol. We can use the pick to get someone who is developed. You're too hung up on the fact that the pick is next year.

You'd be able to trade the 2nd if it were this year's too so that is irrelevant...but for a whole year that asset sits and does nothing for our team...its like putting money under your mattress vs putting it in an investment vehicle... under your mattress you get no interest or dividend it just sits there.
 

R8Devs

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Nov 20, 2010
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Considering he is our best player and we have up a 9th overall for him, yes they have to. If not they should trade him.

so trade picks for guys at the end of their prime who might help them get to the first wild card spot? most teams aren't giving up prime assets for 2nd round picks. They'll have to wait for guys to develop and hope some guys reach their potential like every cup team has. Teams aren't giving you their young stud players.

This would be the definition of retooling.

Semantics. The Devils have a lot of filling out to do within the forward core before they can be considered threats. Not even scoring they have a hard time just generating shots.
 

Emperoreddy

Show Me What You Got!
Apr 13, 2010
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so trade picks for guys at the end of their prime who might help them get to the first wild card spot? most teams aren't giving up prime assets for 2nd round picks. They'll have to wait for guys to develop and hope some guys reach their potential like every cup team has. Teams aren't giving you their young stud players.

Doesn't change we need to get the final pieces sooner rather then later and this rebuild or retool is focused around Cory and his window. We need to flip these picks and turn them into something tangible sooner rather then later.
 

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Where are our tools? We're missing an entire first line lol.

No were not lol.

Were missing one top 3 guy, Zajac as a #2 center is perfect, and NJ has never been one to have multiple high end forwards...

Good winger depth with a #1-2c combo of ???-Zajac would work plenty fine. We don't need an entire first line of top 3 talents. As long as they can be top 3 talents for NJ...
 

SteveCangialosi123

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You'd be able to trade the 2nd if it were this year's too so that is irrelevant...but for a whole year that asset sits and does nothing for our team...its like putting money under your mattress vs putting it in an investment vehicle... under your mattress you get no interest or dividend it just sits there.

If teams around the league agree that this year's draft is weak, the return you get for that pick if it's traded is limited. I'd rather get a chocolate cake tomorrow than a box of **** today.
 

Czech Trio

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Aug 29, 2009
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Way I see it going into next year

Blandisi - Zajac - Palmieri
Cammalleri - Henrique - Zacha
Trade - UFA - Boucher
DSP - Gionta - Farnham

Now if those spots are filled by Stempniak (again), Kovalchuk, Drouin, etc. who knows. I for one hope we make a push for Drouin/Yakupov type and bring in a UFA similar to Stemper again.

Blandisi - Zajac - Palmieri
Cammalleri - Henrique - Zacha
Stempniak - Drouin - Boucher
DSP - Gionta - Farnham
 

R8Devs

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Nov 20, 2010
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Doesn't change we need to get the final pieces sooner rather then later and this rebuild or retool is focused around Cory and his window. We need to flip these picks and turn them into something tangible sooner rather then later.

yes but those pieces are hard to get and most likely will have to be done through the draft. Seguin trades don't happen everyday and GMs are probably even more wary about trades like that since that event. It'd be great if they could turn a couple of picks into a young #1C but what team is giving up their young #1C. Johansen already went for Jones. The only option is Edmonton because they have three of them but who knows if they'll even consider selling them.

And if you trade all your picks for the wrong ppl you'll be in a worse situation.
 

SteveCangialosi123

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
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No were not lol.

Were missing one top 3 guy, Zajac as a #2 center is perfect, and NJ has never been one to have multiple high end forwards...

Good winger depth with a #1-2c combo of ???-Zajac would work plenty fine. We don't need an entire first line of top 3 talents. As long as they can be top 3 talents for NJ...

We're missing a 1LW most of the time because Cammy is out so often, a 1C, and a 1RW (Palmieri isn't there yet or likely ever). And I seem to remember multiple high end forwards when we went to the cup..and when they left we were irrelevant.
 

Devils Army

Rebuild Over.
Feb 3, 2014
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Way I see it going into next year

Blandisi - Zajac - Palmieri
Cammalleri - Henrique - Zacha
Trade - UFA - Boucher
DSP - Gionta - Farnham

Now if those spots are filled by Stempniak (again), Kovalchuk, Drouin, etc. who knows. I for one hope we make a push for Drouin/Yakupov type and bring in a UFA similar to Stemper again.

Blandisi - Zajac - Palmieri
Cammalleri - Henrique - Zacha
Stempniak - Drouin - Boucher
DSP - Gionta - Farnham

I'd much rather Drouin split up that 2nd line cause they are all shoot first guys, if we get Drouin slot him into one of those spots
 

Jersey Fresh

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Feb 23, 2004
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Shero's job was to get as much value as he could for non-core players at the deadline when it was clear that we were out of contention. I think he did a nice job of that. Especially if we sign Stemp.

Exactly. What was the alternative here, exactly?

"Nah, keep the 2nd next year. I'll take three 5ths this year, please." If you agree that a 2nd next year in a stronger draft is OBVIOUSLY a better asset than a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. this year in a weak draft, then what are we arguing about? I'll gladly eat that extra year of development if it affords the team a better chance of getting an actual NHL player. Schneider or no Schneider.
 
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