Prospect Info: Development camp

[shoop]

I'd be curious where Copper and Blue got those numbers since its hard to get an accurate FO% let alone advanced stats out of any junior league. And I'm not basing my assessment of nurse off scouting reports I'm going by what I have seen of him which admittedly isn't that much(4 games). But from what I have seen of him he has mediocre shot, average NHL skating, and low IQ. I wouldn't have took him in the top 20 of the draft for sure given the quality of other d men available. I'm projecting him to be bottom pairing for the reasons listed, although I would put his potential as a solid top 4 whose plays a nasty game, I just don't see him reaching it. For an NHL comparison I'd say Phaneuf without the shot, or physical stature.

Low IQ? He was OHL academic player of the year. That speak well of both his intelligence and his work ethic.

The comparison to Phaneuf is odd. He is the same height as Phaneuf. Nurse definitely needs to put on weight. If you consider Phaneuf an average skater, then the Oilers could only wish to have a team full of your kinda average skaters.

 

[McDNicks17]

They play very different types of games though.

Not as much as some think.

There seems to be some misconception that Nurse runs around looking for big hits. That isn't his game.

He's very much a positional defender like Pietrangelo. He uses his reach and skating to keep guys to the outside. Nurse is much nastier along the wall/in the corners/in front of the net though.

 

[Raab]

Low IQ? He was OHL academic player of the year. That speak well of both his intelligence and his work ethic.

The comparison to Phaneuf is odd. He is the same height as Phaneuf. Nurse definitely needs to put on weight. If you consider Phaneuf an average skater, then the Oilers could only wish to have a team full of your kinda average skaters.

Low hockey IQ, his intelligence off the ice is not in question. And he's an average NHL skater, he's above average in junior. I think Phaneuf is a good comparison except for the shot. In my mind I see him as a poor mans Phaneuf if he reaches his full potential.

 

[McDNicks17]

Nurse and Phaneuf are stylistically nothing alike.

Positionally sound, nasty defensive defenseman vs. an offensive defenseman who runs around for big hits.

 

[Raab]

Pietrangelo is more than functional at 6'3 205lb.

If Nurse can get to 205-210 he should be fine.

Big difference between 6'3 and 6'5 for body mass. From what I've seen for every inch of height you add you need roughly 10 more lbs to get the same physical stature as the smaller guy. So for example A guy at 5'11 and 190lbs would have the same physique as a guy 6'2 and 220 lbs.

 

[Panda Bear]

Low hockey IQ, his intelligence off the ice is not in question. And he's an average NHL skater, he's above average in junior. I think Phaneuf is a good comparison except for the shot. In my mind I see him as a poor mans Phaneuf if he reaches his full potential.

In what world does Nurse have low hockey IQ?

Some scouts at the start of the '12-13 season expressed concerns about his hockey IQ. These same scouts, by the end of the season, said they no longer had any concerns about his hockey IQ. If you think that Nurse has poor hockey IQ, you're also someone who probably assumes that he goes around looking for big hits.

That or you're like some other posters who go "he must have poor hockey IQ since he didn't put up good offensive numbers." It's hard to put up good offensive numbers when you're playing on the second PP. He has great even strength numbers. Look for a huge jump this season. The only real knock for him offensively is his shot right now.

He's an above average NHL skater in terms of his agility and general mobility. By the time he's filled out, he may not be quite as agile, but his strides will be much more powerful.

 

[Panda Bear]

Big difference between 6'3 and 6'5 for body mass. From what I've seen for every inch of height you add you need roughly 10 more lbs to get the same physical stature as the smaller guy. So for example A guy at 5'11 and 190lbs would have the same physique as a guy 6'2 and 220 lbs.

Maybe that would work if everyone had the same proportions.

And if you're 6'6" like Pronger, you need to be 260 pounds? Shame he only weighed 220.

 

[Raab]

Nurse and Phaneuf are stylistically nothing alike.

Positionally sound, nasty defensive defenseman vs. an offensive defenseman who runs around for big hits.

I've seen nurse run around for the big hit. It's not like he hasn't. And I said Phaneuf without the shot, nurse has a half decent breakout pass and has no problem skating the puck out from what I've seen, similar to Phaneuf. If you add the fact that they both play a rough game along the boards to me there a similar style of player. If you have someone better id like to hear who? And remember thats what I see his max potential as with a slight chance of reaching it.

 

[Senor Catface]

I've seen nurse run around for the big hit. It's not like he hasn't. And I said Phaneuf without the shot, nurse has a half decent breakout pass and has no problem skating the puck out from what I've seen, similar to Phaneuf. If you add the fact that they both play a rough game along the boards to me there a similar style of player. If you have someone better id like to hear who? And remember thats what I see his max potential as with a slight chance of reaching it.

Almost every single defenseman, at some point, as gone running for the big hit at some point. The point dnicks was trying to make, is that Phaneuf was known not for doing that occasionally, but doing it in excess. If Nurse is not doing the same hit runs in excess, then at this point, their names can't really be linked.

 

[Soundwave]

I've seen nurse run around for the big hit. It's not like he hasn't. And I said Phaneuf without the shot, nurse has a half decent breakout pass and has no problem skating the puck out from what I've seen, similar to Phaneuf. If you add the fact that they both play a rough game along the boards to me there a similar style of player. If you have someone better id like to hear who? And remember thats what I see his max potential as with a slight chance of reaching it.

If Nurse is basically Phaneuf, but even bigger when he fills out, and a more mobile/better skater, but without the canon shot ... I can more than live with that with a no.7 pick.

His superior skating ability can help him not get caught out of position so easily if/when he does decide to go for the big hit.

 

[Raab]

If Nurse is basically Phaneuf, but even bigger when he fills out, and a more mobile/better skater, but without the canon shot ... I can more than live with that with a no.7 pick.

His superior skating ability can help him not get caught out of position so easily if/when he does decide to go for the big hit.

I doubt he'll be a better skater then Phaneuf. Phaneuf actually has half decent mobility.

 

[Musashi]

I doubt he'll be a better skater then Phaneuf. Phaneuf actually has half decent mobility.

Good god, give it a rest already man

I've never understood why people who disagree with their teams picks got to go out of their way to slam and undermine everything about that prospect. We get it, you didn't like the Darnell Nurse pick but he is an Oiler now, whether you like it or not.

I really question your opinion or how much you've watched on Nurse because any negative or questionable aspect to his game is continuously being blown out of proportion by you and you refuse to acknowledge any of the immense improvements he's made in his game in the two years at SSM. Also the fact that you are already willing to declare him the biggest bust in the draft doesn't help either

You have plenty of posters here giving their honest reviews on Nurse and many think he is a 2-3 year work in progress but the majority seem to like what they see. You may doubt others opinions because of what you've seen with your own eyes but why not take the approach of hoping you're wrong and that other posters are right, for the sake of the Oilers.

If you are correct and in the next 3-5 years Nurse shows nothing of being a quality prospect and Pulock is scoring 50 goals a season with his 150 mph slapshot, then feel free and make a thread about it and I'm sure some posters will give you your props. But until then, can we stop the consistent bashing or continued negative posts on a prospect who is going to work his ass off to be everything this team needs and that many feel has a bright future ahead of him.

I really wouldn't be surprised if you're cheering on Nurse to bust just so you can say you were right..

 

[McPuritania]

Good god, give it a rest already man

I've never understood why people who disagree with their teams picks got to go out of their way to slam and undermine everything about that prospect. We get it, you didn't like the Darnell Nurse pick but he is an Oiler now, whether you like it or not.

I really question your opinion or how much you've watched on Nurse because any negative or questionable aspect to his game is continuously being blown out of proportion by you and you refuse to acknowledge any of the immense improvements he's made in his game in the two years at SSM. Also the fact that you are already willing to declare him the biggest bust in the draft doesn't help either

You have plenty of posters here giving their honest reviews on Nurse and many think he is a 2-3 year work in progress but the majority seem to like what they see. You may doubt others opinions because of what you've seen with your own eyes but why not take the approach of hoping you're wrong and that other posters are right, for the sake of the Oilers.

If you are correct and in the next 3-5 years Nurse shows nothing of being a quality prospect and Pulock is scoring 50 goals a season with his 150 mph slapshot, then feel free and make a thread about it and I'm sure some posters will give you your props. But until then, can we stop the consistent bashing or continued negative posts on a prospect who is going to work his ass off to be everything this team needs and that many feel has a bright future ahead of him.

I really wouldn't be surprised if you're cheering on Nurse to bust just so you can say you were right..

Good post. You saw the same thing when we drafted Hall. Seguin nut huggers were ripping on Hall constantly. The bolded is more than likely true as well. I don't understand why people hope for prospects or players on this team to fail. I'm not a fan of Dubnyk, and I'm not sold on Petry, but you damn well bet I hope they succeed. I hope I'm wrong, and they turn out to be great players. That is what's best for the team. I can't fathom why people would rather pat themselves on the back than see the team get better.

 

[t0mf00lery]

Maybe that would work if everyone had the same proportions.

And if you're 6'6" like Pronger, you need to be 260 pounds? Shame he only weighed 220.

Pronger's game wasn't about brute strength. He was actually very, very lean. He was all about positioning and gap control. He was mean and that benefitted him, but he wasn't about completely running guys over with huge hits.

 

[Panda Bear]

Pronger's game wasn't about brute strength. He was actually very, very lean. He was all about positioning and gap control. He was mean and that benefitted him, but he wasn't about completely running guys over with huge hits.

Absolutely.

Nurse's game won't be about brute strength and completely running guys over either. Lots of people aren't realizing that being mean along the boards and in clearing your crease does not mean that the player's game is all about running around for the big hit.

 

[Raab]

Good god, give it a rest already man

I've never understood why people who disagree with their teams picks got to go out of their way to slam and undermine everything about that prospect. We get it, you didn't like the Darnell Nurse pick but he is an Oiler now, whether you like it or not.

I really question your opinion or how much you've watched on Nurse because any negative or questionable aspect to his game is continuously being blown out of proportion by you and you refuse to acknowledge any of the immense improvements he's made in his game in the two years at SSM. Also the fact that you are already willing to declare him the biggest bust in the draft doesn't help either

You have plenty of posters here giving their honest reviews on Nurse and many think he is a 2-3 year work in progress but the majority seem to like what they see. You may doubt others opinions because of what you've seen with your own eyes but why not take the approach of hoping you're wrong and that other posters are right, for the sake of the Oilers.

If you are correct and in the next 3-5 years Nurse shows nothing of being a quality prospect and Pulock is scoring 50 goals a season with his 150 mph slapshot, then feel free and make a thread about it and I'm sure some posters will give you your props. But until then, can we stop the consistent bashing or continued negative posts on a prospect who is going to work his ass off to be everything this team needs and that many feel has a bright future ahead of him.

I really wouldn't be surprised if you're cheering on Nurse to bust just so you can say you were right..

Yea I really hope he busts , I hope I'm wrong but I don't see a top pairing d man there. And as far as the biggest bust in the draft goes thats in relation to his draft position. I think we left a lot of quality defenders with #1 upside on the table to take a guy with questionable top 4 upside because he had size and plays a rough game. And I'm not trying to bash the prospect im trying to keep peoples expectations in check. If every poster on here is saying Nurse has elite level skating then the casual readers are going to assume we drafted the next Paul Coffey when in fact we'll be lucky if he's as good of skater as Phaneuf who is half decent so I don't see how that's a rip on the guy. It's not like I said he was Plante or Peckham slow. People need to temper there expectations with this kid, by the way some posters are talking him up we got the next Pronger who will be with this team next year. Like I said I'm expecting a good bottom pairing d man who can play top 4 as a minimum, I won't be surprised if he develops into a solid top 4, but will be shocked but pleasantly surprised if he becomes a top pairing d man.

 

[CanadianSuperPromise]

Big difference between 6'3 and 6'5 for body mass. From what I've seen for every inch of height you add you need roughly 10 more lbs to get the same physical stature as the smaller guy. So for example A guy at 5'11 and 190lbs would have the same physique as a guy 6'2 and 220 lbs.

No offense but that's extreme broscience. There's no magical mass-physique ratio. Every player is different, your genetics play a crucial role in how you/where you develop muscle mass.

 

[Raab]

No offense but that's extreme broscience. There's no magical mass-physique ratio. Every player is different, your genetics play a crucial role in how you/where you develop muscle mass.

Well that's the basis I use for estimating weight not that it can't be off. For the average person it seems to work.

 

[puckfan13]

I'm wondering just what raab is trying to say here, I think most reasonable people would expect Nurse's projection to top out at a Seabrook at the high-end and someone like Zach Bogosian at mid-range or expected value. He's a 7th overall pick, not a 1st overall pick, there is a huge difference. If he can turn into a great 2/3 defenseman that is tough as nails and can move the puck up the ice and chip in on offense then he is a terrific pick. If people are expecting Nurse to turn into a franchise defenseman you are out of your skull. Bogosian is a good expectation, anything else is just gravy.

raab is expecting Nurse to be a bottom-pairing d-man off his extremely well trained scout's eye from a gigantic sample of 4 games, just stop all of your arguments and submit to the fact Mark Fistric is Nurse's high-end.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm wondering just what raab is trying to say here, I think most reasonable people would expect Nurse's projection to top out at a Seabrook at the high-end and someone like Zach Bogosian at mid-range or expected value. He's a 7th overall pick, not a 1st overall pick, there is a huge difference. If he can turn into a great 2/3 defenseman that is tough as nails and can move the puck up the ice and chip in on offense then he is a terrific pick. If people are expecting Nurse to turn into a franchise defenseman you are out of your skull. Bogosian is a good expectation, anything else is just gravy.

raab is expecting Nurse to be a bottom-pairing d-man off his extremely well trained scout's eye from a gigantic sample of 4 games, just stop all of your arguments and submit to the fact Mark Fistric is Nurse's high-end.

Defensive development is such a crap shoot. I wouldn't be entirely stunned if you told me that 5 years from now Nurse is better than Seth Jones.

Then again I wouldn't be stunned either if you told me some kid from the 2nd round is better than both of them.

 

[Aceboogie]

I've seen nurse run around for the big hit. It's not like he hasn't. And I said Phaneuf without the shot, nurse has a half decent breakout pass and has no problem skating the puck out from what I've seen, similar to Phaneuf. If you add the fact that they both play a rough game along the boards to me there a similar style of player. If you have someone better id like to hear who? And remember thats what I see his max potential as with a slight chance of reaching it.

I'm confused about your comparison to phanuef. You can have different hockey IQ for different parts of your game. There's IQ at making out let passes, IQ away from the puck (dzone, shutting down players), and IQ making offensive plays. Almost all scoring reports say he plays a great shut down game already. So that's a huge difference between the two.

The only similarities between the two is size and physicality. Coaches can teach him to not run around. But he plays a much better shutdown game and has a progressing offensive game. IMO, if he completely stops developing offensively, he would turn out like smid

 

[B A T M A N*]

Wish we picked Nichuskin

 

[Oiltankjob Fail]

Wish we picked Nichuskin

Not saying Nichuskin wont be a great player but if he does it fares well for Yakimov as well

Same league same age

Nichuskin mhl gp 53 g 12 a 8 pts 20
Yakimov MHL gp 57g 21 a 17 pts 38

 

[Fourier]

Not as much as some think.

There seems to be some misconception that Nurse runs around looking for big hits. That isn't his game.

He's very much a positional defender like Pietrangelo. He uses his reach and skating to keep guys to the outside. Nurse is much nastier along the wall/in the corners/in front of the net though.

It looks like there are a lot of myths starting to form about him. I think you and I see the same player.

 

[Fourier]

I've seen nurse run around for the big hit. It's not like he hasn't. And I said Phaneuf without the shot, nurse has a half decent breakout pass and has no problem skating the puck out from what I've seen, similar to Phaneuf. If you add the fact that they both play a rough game along the boards to me there a similar style of player. If you have someone better id like to hear who? And remember thats what I see his max potential as with a slight chance of reaching it.

I was not and am still not convinced this was the right pick, not because I don't like Nurse but because I really wanted a center. Even at #7, I think I would have preferred Horvat, especially now that the Oilers have Perron. But I think your assessment of Nurse is not that accurate. In particular, I've seen a fair bit of Nurse and I do not see much in his game that reminds me of Phaneuf at all.

Nurse is, as dnicks says, an extremely good positional defenseman. Even after all theses years this is still a weakness of Phaneuf's. He is a kid who thinks defense first, even if he has added an offensive component to his game. And while every defender can get caught out of position he certainly does not run around looking for the big hit. Most of his nastiness happens in front of the net or along the wall.

As others have pointed out he is a very bright kid who was the scholastic player of the year in the OHL. Of course this does not mean he would automatically have a high hockey IQ, but despite what you suggest I think that the good news here is that in most peoples eye he does.

Realistically, the big question mark on this kid is: Does his offense translate? I am not sure how that translates to a player similar to Phaneuf.