News Article: Devcore is willing

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

@BonkTastic isn't the poll presenting the results of that oddly terrible poll that was posted somewhere on here a week or two back. Name seems to ring a bell?

That's what I was thinking. Wasn't this the poorly written and skewly written poll?

 

[Cosmix]

Fixed that for you

Unfortunately there is a lot of truth in your statement.

 

[Cosmix]

What I don't like about these polls is that they really don't paint a clear picture of what those that said a stadium isn't “crucial ingredient in any proposal to redevelop LeBreton Flats."

How many of these people thinks it's "very important" but not crucial?

How many of these respondents think something completely nonviable is crutial instead: giant park, aquarium, soccer stadium...etc.


If the question was: Would you prefer a Lebreton Development with an NHL arena or one with just condo's...I guarantee that those favouring the arena would be higher than 40%.

Alternatively, if you gave people the other options, then the poll would breakdown something like this:

Arena - 40%
Aquarium - 10%
Park Space - 8%
Soccer Stadium - 5%
Yogic Flying Arena - 1%

This data tells a very different story than the population is divided, because when you go to this level of detail it becomes much clearer that the overwhelming preference for what to anchor the project becomes clear.

Add a Casino and it probably ranks high too; probably higher than everything else except perhaps the Arena.

 

[GCK]

Meh Iam a taxpayer,and this is a project is where tax dollars should go...

Tax payer dollars do go towards the project in the form of infrastructure and public space upkeep. I am not opposed to municipal tax deferral for a period of time but not direct funding.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

This isn't unheard of. Copps Coliseum says "hi".

The 1992 expansion proves it doesn't guarantee anything.

Pretty sure the Leafs and Sabres Nixed the Hamilton bid, protecting their "territorial rights"

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Pretty sure the Leafs and Sabres Nixed the Hamilton bid, protecting their "territorial rights"

Hamilton would have had a team if they paid the expansion fee up front.

Don Cherry still whines about it to this day.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Hamilton would have had a team if they paid the expansion fee up front.

Don Cherry still whines about it to this day.

This is true as well.
I remember the Ottawa bid meet all the criteria set out by the NHL, at the time, and the Hamilton wanted to alter the expansion fee payment schedule.
The NHL refused, and the Hamilton bidders dropped out.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

This isn't unheard of. Copps Coliseum says "hi".

The 1992 expansion proves it doesn't guarantee anything.

And Hamilton with Timmies was right in the mix until the bitter end. NHL asked for the 50m franchise fee (ha ha ha) up front. Timmies asked if they could present it in a couple of payments. The Ottawa group crossed their fingers behind their back and said, sure, here's a check.

the rest is history.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

This is true as well.
I remember the Ottawa bid meet all the criteria set out by the NHL, at the time, and the Hamilton wanted to alter the expansion fee payment schedule.
The NHL refused, and the Hamilton bidders dropped out.

shoot. I guess I should have read all the posts. I just tossed up the same comment.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

Hamilton would have had a team if they paid the expansion fee up front.

Don Cherry still whines about it to this day.

he has always had an unreasonable hatred for the Sens.

I remember his commentary on "The Pass" from the playoffs. Everyone was like "what a ridiculous saucer pass right on the stick". Cherry claims it was a Hail Mary Pass - which is all weird because his boy Bobby Orr has always had positive things to say about EK.

 

[RandR]

This is true as well.
I remember the Ottawa bid meet all the criteria set out by the NHL, at the time, and the Hamilton wanted to alter the expansion fee payment schedule.
The NHL refused, and the Hamilton bidders dropped out.

Sorry, but that is not what happened at all.

There are likely better articles with details but this one from Toronto-based report Damien Cox sums up the viewpoint the media and hockey followers in or near Hamilton had of the 1990 expansion:

...that infamous day in December 1990 when Ron Joyce was royally screwed in his attempt to land a Hamilton expansion franchise

Hamilton has been down NHL road before | The Star

Hamilton never dropped out of the bidding; they were still one of the candidates when the announcement of Ottawa and Tampa Bay was made. Not only that, but they thought they would be selected because they already had an arena and Ron Joyce (Tim Hortons chain co-founder) had deep pockets -- 2 things which neither the Ottawa nor Tampa bids had. Yes, they did ask the league what kind of indemnification rights would be owed to Toronto and/or Buffalo and the NHL never even gave them the courtesy of an answer.

 

[GrantLemons]

he has always had an unreasonable hatred for the Sens.

I remember his commentary on "The Pass" from the playoffs. Everyone was like "what a ridiculous saucer pass right on the stick". Cherry claims it was a Hail Mary Pass - which is all weird because his boy Bobby Orr has always had positive things to say about EK.

He's a bitter old turd who's incapable of letting go of hatred from a rivalry that happened ~15 years ago.

Old dogs can't learn new tricks. Grapes is Grapes, and he'll likely always have an irrational dislike of the Sens from those old rivalries.

 

[Pangu]

Many adults vote for politicians who want to keep taxes low and not support pro sports teams via taxes.

Sorry, is there any evidence in this poll that adults that do not pay taxes and/or adults that are happy to pay more taxes are more inclined to support government giveaways to Melnyk? Frankly, I doubt that most adults that want higher income taxes want to see that money go to Melnyk and I have similar doubts regarding adults that do not pay taxes.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

Sorry, but that is not what happened at all.

There are likely better articles with details but this one from Toronto-based report Damien Cox sums up the viewpoint the media and hockey followers in or near Hamilton had of the 1990 expansion:


Hamilton has been down NHL road before | The Star

Hamilton never dropped out of the bidding; they were still one of the candidates when the announcement of Ottawa and Tampa Bay was made. Not only that, but they thought they would be selected because they already had an arena and Ron Joyce (Tim Hortons chain co-founder) had deep pockets -- 2 things which neither the Ottawa nor Tampa bids had. Yes, they did ask the league what kind of indemnification rights would be owed to Toronto and/or Buffalo and the NHL never even gave them the courtesy of an answer.

that Star article is mostly talking about the on going saga of Hamilton trying to get a team and threw in the "...got screwed" line.

this article is Cherry talking about how he was to be the coach of the 92 team in Hamilton (now we know why he hates Ottawa) he is quoted in that article saying:

“We had it all set,” Cherry said. “Gerry Patterson had it all set up. At 12 o’clock when we went to bed we had the franchise. … I was going to be the coach. I was all ready to go.”
When they woke up, they didn’t.
Cherry continued: “[Eventual Tampa Bay Lightning co-founder] Phil Esposito comes on and says, ‘I’ve got the arena and I’ve got the dough.’ He didn’t have the arena and didn’t have a pot to … you know … he didn’t have anything. [Eventual Ottawa Senators founder] Bruce Firestone [also said] ‘I’ve got the arena and I’ve got the dough,’ [but he] didn’t have the arena; didn’t have the dough.”​

Correct they never backed out. not indicated in cherry's comments were that Tamp and Ottawa said here's a check and Timmies wanted some installments.

So the "screwing" is that the other two teams didn't have anything but a check that they hoped wouldn't bounce.

 

[Masked]

he has always had an unreasonable hatred for the Sens.

He's still pissed that they picked Marshy's over his shitty Grapevine restaurant for the Palladium.

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

He's still pissed that they picked Marshy's over his ****ty Grapevine restaurant for the Palladium.

I always like Marshy's, uh, hiring practices.

 

[RandR]

that Star article is mostly talking about the on going saga of Hamilton trying to get a team and threw in the "...got screwed" line.

this article is Cherry talking about how he was to be the coach of the 92 team in Hamilton (now we know why he hates Ottawa) he is quoted in that article saying:

“We had it all set,” Cherry said. “Gerry Patterson had it all set up. At 12 o’clock when we went to bed we had the franchise. … I was going to be the coach. I was all ready to go.”
When they woke up, they didn’t.
Cherry continued: “[Eventual Tampa Bay Lightning co-founder] Phil Esposito comes on and says, ‘I’ve got the arena and I’ve got the dough.’ He didn’t have the arena and didn’t have a pot to … you know … he didn’t have anything. [Eventual Ottawa Senators founder] Bruce Firestone [also said] ‘I’ve got the arena and I’ve got the dough,’ [but he] didn’t have the arena; didn’t have the dough.”​

Correct they never backed out. not indicated in cherry's comments were that Tamp and Ottawa said here's a check and Timmies wanted some installments.

So the "screwing" is that the other two teams didn't have anything but a check that they hoped wouldn't bounce.

Absolutely. In fact neither the Senators nor Tampa made their payments on time. As is well known here, the Senators bid was based largely on a real estate development plan that never came to fruition. The Tampa bid was even flakier and it didn’t seem as if anyone other than Phil had any idea who Esposito’s Japanese investors were. Years later Esposito joked that the Japanese involved thought they were investing in saki, not hockey.

The morale of that whole 1990 expansion bid process was that if you kept your mouth shut and just said yes without asking the league any questions then that’s how you got let in at the door and you could then worry later about how the heck you were going to pay the bill.

 

[West Coast Eagles]

That's what I was thinking. Wasn't this the poorly written and skewly written poll?

That's what I thought

 

[IpsoPostFacto]

Absolutely. In fact neither the Senators nor Tampa made their payments on time. As is well known here, the Senators bid was based largely on a real estate development plan that never came to fruition. The Tampa bid was even flakier and it didn’t seem as if anyone other than Phil had any idea who Esposito’s Japanese investors were. Years later Esposito joked that the Japanese involved thought they were investing in saki, not hockey.

The morale of that whole 1990 expansion bid process was that if you kept your mouth shut and just said yes without asking the league any questions then that’s how you got let in at the door and you could then worry later about how the heck you were going to pay the bill.

the tampa story is the stuff of legend.

that entire expansion fiasco is in no small part thanks to nhl prez. John Ziegler. it's not even clear that he liked hockey. I bet he only attended about 6 games.

coverage of the awarding of the franchise and game 1 where we actually manage to beat the habs; just forget tonight's game.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Sorry, but that is not what happened at all.

There are likely better articles with details but this one from Toronto-based report Damien Cox sums up the viewpoint the media and hockey followers in or near Hamilton had of the 1990 expansion:


Hamilton has been down NHL road before | The Star

Hamilton never dropped out of the bidding; they were still one of the candidates when the announcement of Ottawa and Tampa Bay was made. Not only that, but they thought they would be selected because they already had an arena and Ron Joyce (Tim Hortons chain co-founder) had deep pockets -- 2 things which neither the Ottawa nor Tampa bids had. Yes, they did ask the league what kind of indemnification rights would be owed to Toronto and/or Buffalo and the NHL never even gave them the courtesy of an answer.

And here's another detailed article, on the matter.

Historical Hockey Stats & Trivia: 1992 NHL Expansion

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Sorry, is there any evidence in this poll that adults that do not pay taxes and/or adults that are happy to pay more taxes are more inclined to support government giveaways to Melnyk? Frankly, I doubt that most adults that want higher income taxes want to see that money go to Melnyk and I have similar doubts regarding adults that do not pay taxes.

It would be municipal taxes, that Melnyk would be seeking, not income taxes, and perhaps he might even be seeking reduced property taxes.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Correct they never backed out. not indicated in cherry's comments were that Tamp and Ottawa said here's a check and Timmies wanted some installments.

I was not saying "they backed out" I was referencing this article/blog that said "Ron Joyce and the others considered this to be poor business sense and reluctantly dropped out."

Hamilton’s Bungled NHL Bid

I don't know if it's true, or not.

 

[supsens]

Just grasping at straws to prove your point. Hilarious. When did Quebec 'muscle' its way into a team? You dont have a single ounce of proof other than some kindof made up fantasy that building a rink was 'muscle'ing its way in. They built the rink so there was a move in ready arena lol. They literally bid for expansion.

What point?

 

[Cosmix]

Sorry, is there any evidence in this poll that adults that do not pay taxes and/or adults that are happy to pay more taxes are more inclined to support government giveaways to Melnyk? Frankly, I doubt that most adults that want higher income taxes want to see that money go to Melnyk and I have similar doubts regarding adults that do not pay taxes.

?

 

[BonkTastic]

@BonkTastic isn't the poll presenting the results of that oddly terrible poll that was posted somewhere on here a week or two back. Name seems to ring a bell?

Oh yeah, this poll.



Such a ridiculously leading poll in favour of Melnyk. It's telling that even after they worded the poll so strangely in favour of eliciting favorable responses for Melnyk, that it was still came out so badly for him.