Detroit and the Lottery

[TS Quint]

I think the issue of tanking is getting really overblown, even if the tanking team gets first overall they're still going to be a terrible team 99% of the time. For Buffalo and Arizona, it hasn't worked out at all and even when Crosby and Lemieux first started out the penguins were crap

You can't build a team through the draft by getting one player/year in the draft. It doesn't matter if you pick 1st overall or in the bottom 5 of the draft. But it sure does help to get the 1st overall.

I could have done better than the Oilers, Sabres, Coyotes over the last decade or two with a The Hockey News and my toilet.

 

[TS Quint]

Had*

15 years ago Nashville wasn't the market it is today and the same can be said about Pittsburgh. Times change, its Detroit's turn to be a dumpster fire of an organization. How else can you possibly describe an organization that has a 17 win season?

The cost of setting the consecutive playoff appearance record.

It's still not a dumpster fire organization. You have no clue what you are talking about. The Wings are still one of the great organizations. There is a difference between being in the down part of the teams talent cycle and being a "dumpster fire organization".

 

[nbwingsfan]

Had*

15 years ago Nashville wasn't the market it is today and the same can be said about Pittsburgh. Times change, its Detroit's turn to be a dumpster fire of an organization. How else can you possibly describe an organization that has a 17 win season?

It’s called having a bad team. Detroit has had them before but has not come close to bankruptcy or folding. You don’t set a consecutive playoff record and then 3 years later become a “dumpster fire” franchise. Can you be a terrible team quickly? Sure, just as Chicago/LA who ~4 years ago were model franchises. Are they also suddenly terrible franchises as well just because they’re at the end of their success cycle?

All puttsburgh has proven so far is they need the best player in the NHL on their team to be a successful franchise. Otherwise they struggle mightily

 

[Pyromaniac]

Your entirely theory seems to stem on your belief that the higher in the standings you are, the better of a Franchise you are.

Puttsburgh has been good because they tanked at the time and have had two top 5 players the last decade +.

Would you say that a franchise like NYI or Carolina are better franchises than Chicago and L.A. ? Because that is flat out wrong.

I downgraded Detroit because they had a 17 win embarrassment of a season and leaving a bumbling Holland to run things for far too long. In comparison the Penguins have been competitive and put together some great teams. Even without Crosby this year for stretches they were still a good team.

I couldn't care less if you want to claim that the Wings are somehow "better" than the Penguins as a franchise. Have at it. The context that I was referring to when I said "better" is in regards to Alexis Lafreniere, and what would most benefit him going forward. I believe that Pittsburgh would be an ideal location for him in terms of team makeup and would almost immediately vault him into contention instead of suffering like McDavid had to for his first few years in Edmonton.

 

[Pyromaniac]

The cost of setting the consecutive playoff appearance record.

It's still not a dumpster fire organization. You have no clue what you are talking about. The Wings are still one of the great organizations. There is a difference between being in the down part of the teams talent cycle and being a "dumpster fire organization".

Exactly the Red Wings went from winning and competing for Cups to chasing a "playoff appearance record" and now they are a dumpster fire of an organization as a result with utterly embarrassing performances night after night.

 

[ToDavid]

Every year, people on these boards talk about how just making the playoffs doesn’t’ turn make a team a contender. Now, suddenly, a team that doesn’t even make it to the actual 1st round of the playoffs is a contender. Don’t ever change HFBoards.

I don't think that's what they're saying. I think what they're saying is that because of the qualifying round, a true contender like the Penguins who had a 99% chance of making the playoffs, could fall into the lottery because of a few bad games. And to add to that, instead of having very low odds as a top seeded non-playoff team, they'll have the same odds as everyone else.

That second part is really my only gripe in all this. They should have kept the weighted odds for qualifying round losers based on point percentage. Giving them all an equal 12.5% is silly to me.

 

[TS Quint]

Yeah, no... Suter wanted to play with Parise. Detroit in the lockout shortened season with Suter on their blueline? They probably go on and win the f***ing Cup. They damn near knocked off Chicago with a weak D core. You add a Norris level defender to replace the Nick Lidstrom hole in the roster.

Wings lost because the best coach in the world (at least according to Leaf fans when the Leafs signed him) got out coached as usual. Coach Q adjusted after being down 3-1, Babcock refused to adjust to that because of his arrogance. That's how the Wings only got 1 Cup in a decade with a loaded team and an arrogant coach.

 

[TS Quint]

Exactly the Red Wings went from winning and competing for Cups to chasing a "playoff appearance record" and now they are a dumpster fire of an organization as a result with utterly embarrassing performances night after night.

No, once again, they are still one of the class organizations of the league dispite a currently poor talent pool. I don't understand what you aren't getting here.

 

[grapes55]

You can't build a team through the draft by getting one player/year in the draft. It doesn't matter if you pick 1st overall or in the bottom 5 of the draft. But it sure does help to get the 1st overall.

I could have done better than the Oilers, Sabres, Coyotes over the last decade or two with a The Hockey News and my toilet.

agree 100%. The first overall is a great start but there's so much more to building a great team. If a team decides to tank, let them tank and suffer the consequences

 

[TS Quint]

The Wings could have tanked 5 years ago. Instead they kept making trades and adding pieces hoping to stay competitive. This past offseason they added Filppula and Nemeth when they could’ve stood pat.

You cannot classify this years’ Wings as a team that was tanking. They tried to hang on for as long as possible and the bottom fell out this year. In part because of historically bad goaltending from Jimmy Howard.

We really need to stop throwing the tanking word out so whimsically just because a team is bad.

They didn't add Filp and Nemeth to be competitive. They are place holders. They added those guys as role players and good examples as pros. At the same time the Wings didn't want Seider, Velano, Zadina, Rass etc to be forced into situations they weren't ready for. Look at Yzerman in Tampa, it's clear he believes the road to the NHL is through the AHL unless there is an exceptional case.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Look at Yzerman in Tampa, it's clear he believes the road to the NHL is through the AHL unless there is an exceptional case.

I guess he learned that from Ken Holland because he had that rule where all Red Wings prospects must start off in Grand Rapids.

 

[Ezekial]

Exactly the Red Wings went from winning and competing for Cups to chasing a "playoff appearance record" and now they are a dumpster fire of an organization as a result with utterly embarrassing performances night after night.

That's not the same thing as currently having a bad team. Revenue alone the Wings and Penguins make roughly the same exact amount in recent years, considering the Penguins were in the process of winning cups and we were in the process of beginning to suck, that's pretty sad for the Penguins.

But it seems you have a sunken forehead.


Edit: 2019 team values : The Business Of Hockey
Wings worth $800M 183M revenue 0% debt
Penguins worth $665 184M revenue 17%debt

Ouch I know which team I'd rather own.

 

[Pyromaniac]

That's not the same thing as currently having a bad team. Revenue alone the Wings and Penguins make roughly the same exact amount in recent years, considering the Penguins were in the process of winning cups and we were in the process of beginning to suck, that's pretty sad for the Penguins.

But it seems you have a sunken forehead.


Edit: 2019 team values : The Business Of Hockey
Wings worth $800M 183M revenue 0% debt
Penguins worth $665 184M revenue 17%debt

Ouch I know which team I'd rather own.

I don't hold a stake in either team so I couldn't care less what the spreadsheets look like. I know which team I would rather support and that team is Pittsburgh, the Red Wings have turned into a trash organization in recent years. I would bet Lafreniere was thanking his lucky stars, at least he isn't headed to 17 win Detroit.

 

[Pyromaniac]

No, once again, they are still one of the class organizations of the league dispite a currently poor talent pool. I don't understand what you aren't getting here.

You are stuck in 2008 and need to join us in 2020 where the Red Wings suck. A "class organization" with 17 wins? Just stop...

 

[Chloraflora]

You are stuck in 2008 and need to join us in 2020 where the Red Wings suck. A "class organization" with 17 wins? Just stop...

Good team != class organisation
Bad team != terrible organisation

Correlation doesn't equal causation.

 

[Trap Jesus]

You are stuck in 2008 and need to join us in 2020 where the Red Wings suck. A "class organization" with 17 wins? Just stop...

All the success the Penguins organization has ever had is owed to ping pong balls, being a horrible organization, and being particularly horrid at the exact right times. Their success is built on being poorly run.

 

[Pyromaniac]

Good team != class organisation
Bad team != terrible organisation

Correlation doesn't equal causation.

Let me try now...

Class organization != 17 wins

Sorry, but that's just my opinion. You have a nice day now.

 

[Shakey Rustie]

The Wings will be fine. However they need to switch the seats back to red, who cares if it's more noticeable that their empty, the red seats look better.

 

[LeafsNation75]

All the success the Penguins organization has ever had is owed to ping pong balls, being a horrible organization, and being particularly horrid at the exact right times. Their success is built on being poorly run.

It wasn't even ping pong balls that got them Mario Lemieux. It was their tank to finish last place overall which did the job since the draft lottery didn't start until 1995.

 

[Pyromaniac]

All the success the Penguins organization has ever had is owed to ping pong balls, being a horrible organization, and being particularly horrid at the exact right times. Their success is built on being poorly run.

I couldn't care less how the success was achieved as long as it was. To illustrate my point I will even admit that I especially admire the Spygate Patriots teams and the 2018 Houston Astros for doing all they could in their power to succeed. Just win baby!

 

[TS Quint]

You are stuck in 2008 and need to join us in 2020 where the Red Wings suck. A "class organization" with 17 wins? Just stop...

For someone who writes paragraphs about how smart they are you sure have a hard time understanding the difference between the talent level of the team and the operation of the organization.

 

[Pyromaniac]

For someone who writes paragraphs about how smart they are you sure have a hard time understanding the difference between the talent level of the team and the operation of the organization.

Did you miss this paragraph?

I was responding to a poster who wanted to discuss philosophy so I expounded my thoughts on the subject.

Mental fortitude has nothing to do with intellect. I believe myself to be well below the average intellectually speaking but I have built up an incredible mental toughness. My post was meant to inspire not to denigrate anyone. Also for future reference please don't mischaracterize my posts ever again, it is very rude and speaks to your insecurity regarding your own 'level of intellect'.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

I've say it once and I'll say it a million times: the draft lottery is anti-parity.

 

[ShanahanMan]

The Wings will be fine. However they need to switch the seats back to red, who cares if it's more noticeable that their empty, the red seats look better.

And fix the goal horn.

 

[Bondurant]

The Wings will be fine. However they need to switch the seats back to red, who cares if it's more noticeable that their empty, the red seats look better.

The black empties are just as noticeable too. No one was fooled.