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Dermott Vs Carlo

Dermott Vs Carlo

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Morgs

Morgs

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Jul 12, 2015
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BadBruins said:
I won't even pretend I watch Leaf games and scout Travis Dermott specifically. Hard to take anyone serious claiming Carlo isn't a top-4 D though. I don't even believe his overall upside is anything more than a quality #3 D that can play a shutdown role. He's almost that guy right now. He just needs to fill out physically and up the consistency. Still rail thin and is adapting to being the defensive anchor with a risk taker like Torey Krug (as opposed to Chara).

I know some players hit the ground running and fizzle out, but I don't know of too many defenseman who break into the league at the age of 19, average 20+ minutes a game over the course of the first 140 in a top-4 capacity on a great defensive team and turn into solid Brayden McNabb type players. It's probably happened before. What's more probable is he's a long time top-4 D.
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So like I said in my first post, last season he was okay as a 20 year old playing top-comp relative to expectations. If you were comparing him to a regular guy in those minutes you'd say "he was above his head".

IMO that meant he was probably better suited to play on the 2nd pairing with more sheltered zone starts. Problem is that's exactly what's happened this season, and he's actually put up almost the exact same numbers. That to me is an issue as he has not shown the ability to be drive the play in a positive, or even a net neutral way. He's had a negative impact on both shot shares, and on actual goals against.

I believe the hope should be that one day he can be a successful Top-4 defenseman, but he's probably better suited to be playing on the bottom-pairing right now, and dominating in a Brayden McNabb type way to get better acclimated to the NHL. No need to rush the guy, as not everyone comes into the league as a 20 year old like McAvoy did.
 
DrJustice

DrJustice

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Dec 1, 2014
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lomiller1 said:
Barely. Also, his min have been dropping over and this drop corresponds to the Bruins playing better hockey.
It would be far from the first time a player who did not being in the top 4 received top 4 min. Cf. Dan Girardi. He received top 4 min for years in spite of not belonging there.
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You bring up some interesting facts to the conversation, but I would like to add some context to them. The biggest reason for Carlo's drop in ice time would correspond from being dropped from the top pairing to the 2nd pairing. The main factor in this decision would be the arrival of Charlie McAvoy, who has taken on the role of Chara protege that Carlo enjoyed last year. This dropped Carlo into a much different role playing with Krug on the second pairing. Playing with Krug required Carlo to take on a lot more defensive responsibility due to Krug's skillset as an offensive first type of player, and had to adjust to covering for him more than he did playing with Chara.

At the beginning of the year, this pairing did not work very well and was weakness considering the minutes they were playing. Since the start of December leading up till now they have become a much stronger pairing and he has been consistently logging around 20 minutes a night, playing solid defensively and logging tons on penalty killing time. He's learning how to use his plus skating and big frame to gain leverage and advantage over opponents in the defensive zone, and his play has been improved. As a 2nd year pro, he doesn't have that consistency across the entire 82 game schedule that you'd like him to have when he is in his prime.

You can interpret this however you want, but this is just my opinion after watching him play the last couple years. IMO he is a true top-4 defenceman on the Bruins not just a guy stuck somewhere he doesn't belong. He still has a lot of room to grow but not much about him screams Dan Girardi to me. Yes, the Bruins are playing better with him playing less minutes but imo this has more to do with adding an impact player in McAvoy than it does with Carlo being a weak link, especially after the last couple months of strong play. Heck, he was the guy who filled in for McAvoy on the top pairing after his condition and did it admirably well.
 
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BostonBruins11

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DrJustice said:
You bring up some interesting facts to the conversation, but I would like to add some context to them. The biggest reason for Carlo's drop in ice time would correspond from being dropped from the top pairing to the 2nd pairing. The main factor in this decision would be the arrival of Charlie McAvoy, who has taken on the role of Chara protege that Carlo enjoyed last year. This dropped Carlo into a much different role playing with Krug on the second pairing. Playing with Krug required Carlo to take on a lot more defensive responsibility due to Krug's skillset as an offensive first type of player, and had to adjust to covering for him more than he did playing with Chara.

At the beginning of the year, this pairing did not work very well and was weakness considering the minutes they were playing. Since the start of December leading up till now they have become a much stronger pairing and he has been consistently logging around 20 minutes a night, playing solid defensively and logging tons on penalty killing time. He's learning how to use his plus skating and big frame to gain leverage and advantage over opponents in the defensive zone, and his play has been improved. As a 2nd year pro, he doesn't have that consistency across the entire 82 game schedule that you'd like him to have when he is in his prime.

You can interpret this however you want, but this is just my opinion after watching him play the last couple years. IMO he is a true top-4 defenceman on the Bruins not just a guy stuck somewhere he doesn't belong. He still has a lot of room to grow but not much about him screams Dan Girardi to me. Yes, the Bruins are playing better with him playing less minutes but imo this has more to do with adding an impact player in McAvoy than it does with Carlo being a weak link, especially after the last couple months of strong play. Heck, he was the guy who filled in for McAvoy on the top pairing after his condition and did it admirably well.
Click to expand...

couldn't of said it better :thumbu:
 
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BruinLVGA

BruinLVGA

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Morgs said:
Lol. Ok misconstrue everything.
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"Pretty easy for me; since last season I've always thought Carlo was overrated. Wasn't good in a top-pairing comp last season, and is not that good in a weak 2nd pairing role this season."

Carlo would be on your top pairing. This is a classic case of "he's not on my team, therefore he sucks". It ain't so.
 

rent free

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BruinLVGA said:
"Pretty easy for me; since last season I've always thought Carlo was overrated. Wasn't good in a top-pairing comp last season, and is not that good in a weak 2nd pairing role this season."

Carlo would be on your top pairing. This is a classic case of "he's not on my team, therefore he sucks". It ain't so.
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Carlo wouldn't be on our top pairing. He'd be on our 2nd pairing.
 
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sparxx87

sparxx87

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Jan 5, 2010
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DrJustice said:
You bring up some interesting facts to the conversation, but I would like to add some context to them. The biggest reason for Carlo's drop in ice time would correspond from being dropped from the top pairing to the 2nd pairing. The main factor in this decision would be the arrival of Charlie McAvoy, who has taken on the role of Chara protege that Carlo enjoyed last year. This dropped Carlo into a much different role playing with Krug on the second pairing. Playing with Krug required Carlo to take on a lot more defensive responsibility due to Krug's skillset as an offensive first type of player, and had to adjust to covering for him more than he did playing with Chara.

At the beginning of the year, this pairing did not work very well and was weakness considering the minutes they were playing. Since the start of December leading up till now they have become a much stronger pairing and he has been consistently logging around 20 minutes a night, playing solid defensively and logging tons on penalty killing time. He's learning how to use his plus skating and big frame to gain leverage and advantage over opponents in the defensive zone, and his play has been improved. As a 2nd year pro, he doesn't have that consistency across the entire 82 game schedule that you'd like him to have when he is in his prime.

You can interpret this however you want, but this is just my opinion after watching him play the last couple years. IMO he is a true top-4 defenceman on the Bruins not just a guy stuck somewhere he doesn't belong. He still has a lot of room to grow but not much about him screams Dan Girardi to me. Yes, the Bruins are playing better with him playing less minutes but imo this has more to do with adding an impact player in McAvoy than it does with Carlo being a weak link, especially after the last couple months of strong play. Heck, he was the guy who filled in for McAvoy on the top pairing after his condition and did it admirably well.
Click to expand...
It’s great when people support their opinions with intelligent insight rather than posting stats or some other nonsense.

Great post.
 
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BadBruins

BadBruins

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Morgs said:
So like I said in my first post, last season he was okay as a 20 year old playing top-comp relative to expectations. If you were comparing him to a regular guy in those minutes you'd say "he was above his head".

IMO that meant he was probably better suited to play on the 2nd pairing with more sheltered zone starts. Problem is that's exactly what's happened this season, and he's actually put up almost the exact same numbers. That to me is an issue as he has not shown the ability to be drive the play in a positive, or even a net neutral way. He's had a negative impact on both shot shares, and on actual goals against.

I believe the hope should be that one day he can be a successful Top-4 defenseman, but he's probably better suited to be playing on the bottom-pairing right now, and dominating in a Brayden McNabb type way to get better acclimated to the NHL. No need to rush the guy, as not everyone comes into the league as a 20 year old like McAvoy did.
Click to expand...

Having seen Krug and Chara struggle with a multitude of RHD that I would classify as playing "over their head" in recent years, I can say without a doubt Carlo does not fit that same mold. He absolutely gets the job done, even if like you say, he might have been better off with slower progression into that top-4 role. He's still a top-4 D. No metric or number will change what I've seen. If it starts aligning with his play, maybe I'll buy it. It has nothing to do with expectations. He was the best partner Chara has had since prime Boychuk and thrived in that role last year.

McAvoy and Carlo are the reason for the Bruins jump in the standings the last couple of years. Carlo isn't in the same stratosphere as McAvoy though. Still a top-4. Carlo is your classic modern shutdown defenseman. He's a horse on the PK and skates as well anyone his size. Long reach, good stick, good reads defensively, generally low risk. I think there's more to give offensively because he does skate so well, but it's not necessary for him to become long time top-4. Even just comparing him to his peers his age, he's pretty far along in his development, especially defensively. That's a good thing. The only other D to secure larger roles from that draft class are Provorov and Werenski.
 
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sparxx87

sparxx87

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AnishLoomba said:
Yah honesty he would be on our 3rd pairing.
Click to expand...
Maybe... but from a coach who has Zach Hyman on the 1st line, routinely played Leo Komorov more minutes than Auston Matthews, and put Mitch Marner on the 4th line because Bozak and JVR were terrible. He mixes lines differently than most, it doesn’t mean much.

I’ll take 18-20 mins from Brandon Carlo over Jake Gardiner and Nikita Zaitsev right now without question. I think Zaitsev rebounds but it’s far from certain, and Gardiner has always been a roller coaster and shown no indication that will ever change.

There’s still a place in the league for defensive d men whether analytics say so or not. They need to be able to skate and have at least satisfactory puck skills, which Carlo does. Babcock is so desperate for a player like this that he’s icing an outdated version without either quality in Roman Polak. That should tell you something.
 
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