Player Discussion Derek Stepan: Part II

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FLYLine27*

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Nov 9, 2004
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Are you seriously just going ignore the situations behind both players in this scenario? Nash has been plagued by injuries and has a higher cap hit. He also restricted himself by refusing to go to Canadian teams, which honestly needed him the most.

Plagued by injuries? He's averaged 68 games a season over the last 4 years, I don't know if that's quite the definition of plagued by injuries. Stepan averages 8 more games a season.

Sure, he has a higher cap hit by 1.2M, but he also has 3 less seasons on it left.

So who is to say Stepan won't put all the Canadian teams on his list as well?

You're making it out like they are so different circumstances, but they aren't that far off as you think. A limited NTC can hurt a trade return. If he is getting traded, it will be before that limited kicks in.
 

Amazing Kreiderman

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Apr 11, 2011
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You're making it out like they are so different circumstances, but they aren't that far off as you think. A limited NTC can hurt a trade return. If he is getting traded, it will be before that limited kicks in.

It is more likely a player is traded after waiving a NTC than before a NTC kicking in. That rarely happens.
 

Amazing Kreiderman

Registered User
Apr 11, 2011
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True, but that's only if the player agrees to waive his NTC..which is a whole other ballgame.

But why do we have to trade Stepan in the first place? Stepan isn't some 33-year old player who will regress and turn into a shell of his former self. He is turning 27 next month. He will be 31 when his current contract expires.
 

FLYLine27*

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But why do we have to trade Stepan in the first place? Stepan isn't some 33-year old player who will regress and turn into a shell of his former self. He is turning 27 next month. He will be 31 when his current contract expires.

We don't. I wasn't saying we should I just have a feeling he will be, just like the Brassard trade last season. I feel like that's what Gorton will try to do again, flip a player in his prime, for a younger version with high potential. Trade off players when their value is highest as long as they bring back a good haul/player. He will make sure this team continues to stay competitive for years, kind of like how the Hawks run their team(always seem to have good young players despite never drafting high).
 

mrhockey193195

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Nov 14, 2006
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We don't. I wasn't saying we should I just have a feeling he will be, just like the Brassard trade last season. I feel like that's what Gorton will try to do again, flip a player in his prime, for a younger version with high potential. Trade off players when their value is highest as long as they bring back a good haul/player. He will make sure this team continues to stay competitive for years, kind of like how the Hawks run their team(always seem to have good young players despite never drafting high).

Consistently trading players at their highest value is a great way to **** off the rest of your team and create a reputation where UFAs won't want to sign here. You mention CHI. It's one thing to trade a Versteeg or let a guy like Campbell go, who's your 4th defenseman. It's another thing to trade your top players.
 

FLYLine27*

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Nov 9, 2004
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Consistently trading players at their highest value is a great way to **** off the rest of your team and create a reputation where UFAs won't want to sign here. You mention CHI. It's one thing to trade a Versteeg or let a guy like Campbell go, who's your 4th defenseman. It's another thing to trade your top players.

Players will always want to come to NYC. The team knows there is going to be changes this offseason, it's a business and the core hasn't produced.
 

Oak

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Apr 22, 2012
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Stepan, Hayes, and Staal are must goes for me.

We need a real center, one who plays with energy and can win a faceoff.
 

wolfgaze

Interesting Cat
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Far too often you're watching a game and you can hardly even notice Stepan out on the ice.... Yes he may be doing little things defensively that are important - but often times it's hard to even notice him out there and he's playing a very 'quiet' game.... Not an ideal center by any means...
 

rangerfan_79

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Jun 1, 2007
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It seems he has lost the ability to shoot & pass accurately and is almost always a step behind the play. I figured he was playing injured for the last year and a half but I now think he has off ice distractions related to playing in a big city with a big contract.

Time to move him before NTC kicks in if you can find a taker for that salary.
 

DekeR

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Jan 11, 2008
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For me I don't see the 6.5M? cap hit as being a representative to the value we are actually receiving on the ice. To me he doesn't bring any physicality to the game, his mobility and speed does not match todays current style of play of the NYRs and his FOs are not up to par with the cap hit. To me, production of his wingers are consistent if he was there or another center was involved, I just don't see 6.5M on the ice. But then again I'm going with my eyes and not any statistical numbers to back up my 40/40 vision ;)
 

Hi ImHFNYR

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Jan 10, 2013
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Consistently trading players at their highest value is a great way to **** off the rest of your team and create a reputation where UFAs won't want to sign here. You mention CHI. It's one thing to trade a Versteeg or let a guy like Campbell go, who's your 4th defenseman. It's another thing to trade your top players.

Gomez, Redden, Richards, Gaborik, (Potentially Staal, Girardi, Stepan), Dubs, Brass
all jettisoned in the midst of fairly high or flat out high paying contracts. These are not the names of top players at the time they were traded/cut. Outside of Gabs and Brass, who were still quality players but not top players, these guys all failed miserably to hold up their end of the value they got on the contract. These guys used the NYR to get paid massive amounts of money and their play dropped off immediately to levels where they didn't deserve half of what they were earning. I'd bet Gomez was thrilled to be making 7 mil a year to score a goal or 2 all season. Bus rides might suck, but Redden was getting 6 mil a year to play against Kris Newbury's instead of Crosby or Ovie.
Richards is probably still counting all the excessive amount of money he earned. At a time when we were still giving him over 6 mil a year no other team wanted to even give him 3 so he signs with Chicago for less than that to play for a top team. He's even still poking his teeth into the team's business. Doesn't seem like a pissed off tale to me

I seriously doubt these are cautionary tales to other top FA's. An extra 3-5 million a year more than what I'm worth? Oh man but I have to get traded? Total deal breaker. Hell, guys like Nash and MSL begged to be traded here 'even after all that'. We keep getting all these prized prospect UFA's too. Keep in mind the day to day treatment of players while with the team beats what other teams do.

Nash, Hank, McD, Jagr, MSL Drury.

All these guys are either still here on their big contracts or they got to finish on their own terms. With the exception of Drury who was nothing but hot garbage for pretty much his entire stay here, all of these guys earned at least a degree of their pay. Drury is STILL earning from those days with a cushy FO gig AND he f***ed the team by taking a buyout before remembering he wanted to retire. Clearly he didn't hate his experiences here all that much if he's still lurking with the franchise. MSL sucked imo but at least he served some purpose in his first season here. Jagr got ****ed and should've gotten another contract here.

In general, no one is going out and **** talking their time with the franchise or complaining about the way it ended so how is their going to be some kind of toxic reputation? So if the NYR trade Stepan it is certainly not indicative of a pattern of trading guys at their highest value. Not to mention his highest value was years ago. He may have a single great season left in him but more likely, with his "physical" attributes he's already on the decline.
 
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Mac n Gs

Gorton plz
Jan 17, 2014
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Plagued by injuries? He's averaged 68 games a season over the last 4 years, I don't know if that's quite the definition of plagued by injuries. Stepan averages 8 more games a season.

Sure, he has a higher cap hit by 1.2M, but he also has 3 less seasons on it left.

So who is to say Stepan won't put all the Canadian teams on his list as well?

You're making it out like they are so different circumstances, but they aren't that far off as you think. A limited NTC can hurt a trade return. If he is getting traded, it will be before that limited kicks in.

Ok, since you're gonna spin it a bit, here's Nash's games played over the last 4 years starting from this past season: 67, 60, 79, 65. Then I'll just go through his injury report, the groin injury this January and then a slew of upper body injuries through March and April. Last year was the groin and the knee issues. The year before that was the neck spasms. The year before that was the concussions. He's all dapper and healthy though, since spinning it to say he misses 14 games a season on average isn't a bad thing. Sheesh.

Stepan "averages" 76 games a season :laugh:
 

FLYLine27*

BUCH
Nov 9, 2004
42,410
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Ok, since you're gonna spin it a bit, here's Nash's games played over the last 4 years starting from this past season: 67, 60, 79, 65. Then I'll just go through his injury report, the groin injury this January and then a slew of upper body injuries through March and April. Last year was the groin and the knee issues. The year before that was the neck spasms. The year before that was the concussions. He's all dapper and healthy though, since spinning it to say he misses 14 games a season on average isn't a bad thing. Sheesh.

Stepan "averages" 76 games a season :laugh:

You can spin it anyway you want, FACT is Nash only averages 8 less games a season than Stepan. So your claim that Nash is so injury prone isn't much of a deterrence.

And just looking back over the last three years, Stepan has missed games from a concussion, injured hip, broken ribs, fractured fibula, unknown upper body injury, and a broken jaw. So lets not try and paint a picture like Stepan is so healthy either.
 
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Mac n Gs

Gorton plz
Jan 17, 2014
22,590
12,855
You can spin it anyway you want, FACT is Nash only averages 8 less games a season than Stepan. So your claim that Nash is so injury prone isn't much of a deterrence.

Dude, look at the games played. The one season with 79 games is skewing that average, but believe whatever you want to believe. I'm clearly not going to change your mind even after listing his year-by-year injuries.

Cheers.
 

NickyFotiu

NYR 2024 Cup Champs!
Sep 29, 2011
14,652
6,288
When I see Derek Stepan: Part II

I think to myself that I did not even see Part I yet.

I can not believe they already made a sequel :D
 

FLYLine27*

BUCH
Nov 9, 2004
42,410
14
NY
Dude, look at the games played. The one season with 79 games is skewing that average, but believe whatever you want to believe. I'm clearly not going to change your mind even after listing his year-by-year injuries.

Cheers.

Indeed, all i'm doing is pointing out the facts. Cheers.
 

Boruto

.
Jun 27, 2011
15,627
436
GP doesnt paint the complete picture either. Nash and his injuries always leaves in him limbo healthy but not entirely healthy land. Its been 2 or 3 seasons in a row where we've had an injured Nash not playing his usual power forward stuff.
 

silverfish

got perma'd
Jun 24, 2008
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under the bridge
Averages are a tricky beast. If there's a room of 100 people, and 50 of them are 100 and 50 of them are 0, the average age of that room of people is 50. But it's not like it's an accurate representation of the age of that room. A 50 year old may feel very out of place in this room.

Rather than average it out, why not just post how many games Nash has actually played in? It's not like it's that many numbers to dig into.
 

Inferno

Registered User
Nov 27, 2005
29,681
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Averages are a tricky beast. If there's a room of 100 people, and 50 of them are 100 and 50 of them are 0, the average age of that room of people is 50. But it's not like it's an accurate representation of the age of that room. A 50 year old may feel very out of place in this room.

Rather than average it out, why not just post how many games Nash has actually played in? It's not like it's that many numbers to dig into.

if 50 are 100, and 50 are 0, and there are 100 people...where did this 50 year old person come from? STOP LIVING IN SPREADSHEETS...USE YOUR EYES!!!
 
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