Player Discussion Derek Stepan: Part II

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I know people may just say it's all because of Hank and it's not a great stat to use, but Stepan has the 4th highest GF% among forwards (I set the TOI at 5000) over the last 9 years. 4th. In the entire NHL. He's up there with guys like Datsyuk, Crosby, Marchand, Thornton, Sedin, Toews, etc. He's a damn good hockey player.

When you set it to GF%rel to the team, he's still 8th in the NHL.

Sometimes I think people have already forgotten what it's like to NOT have a good first line center. Stepan might not be the best center in the world, but he is definitely a first line center. And if we trade him, who will replace his minutes? Stepan is our best forward when you look at more than just goals. Can you imagine this team with Hayes in the top-6? Stepan is the woman you have been married to for 10 years. She's not the sexiest woman in the world and you take her for granted. But once you leave her for a younger woman, you start to realize what you had and that the reason it felt so blah, is because you got used to it.

 

[silverfish]

I know people may just say it's all because of Hank and it's not a great stat to use, but Stepan has the 4th highest GF% among forwards (I set the TOI at 5000) over the last 9 years. 4th. In the entire NHL. He's up there with guys like Datsyuk, Crosby, Marchand, Thornton, Sedin, Toews, etc. He's a damn good hockey player.

When you set it to GF%rel to the team, he's still 8th in the NHL.

We live in a world where Stepan is not a two-way center, but Toews is elite.

lolyeahokay.gif

 

[FLYLine27*]

If i had to guess, and it's obviously just pure speculation, i'm pretty certain Stepan will not be a Ranger next season. Another Zbaj/Brassard deal will be made. For the right young, forward...i'm all for it. Team needs to get younger and hungrier.

 

[silverfish]

If i had to guess, and it's obviously just pure speculation, i'm pretty certain Stepan will not be a Ranger next season. Another Zbaj/Brassard deal will be made. For the right young, forward...i'm all for it. Team needs to get younger and hungrier.

What if I told you we could have a 27 year-old, perennial 55 point player, who plays during all strengths and in all game situations while taking d-zone assignments and the toughest matchups?

I'd trade for that guy.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

We live in a world where Stepan is not a two-way center, but Toews is elite.

lolyeahokay.gif

I would take Stepan over Toews any day of the week, especially with that awful contract and cap-hit Mr. Intangibles has

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

If i had to guess, and it's obviously just pure speculation, i'm pretty certain Stepan will not be a Ranger next season. Another Zbaj/Brassard deal will be made. For the right young, forward...i'm all for it. Team needs to get younger and hungrier.

Unless there is an overpayment, I don't see it happening. Stepan is a better player than Brassard, younger and plays all situations. If we are involved in another Brass-type trade, it will be Zuccarello or Nash who is traded. I don't see Stepan leaving, because as good as Zibanejad is, he is not going to be able to fill that void (yet)

 

[FLYLine27*]

What if I told you we could have a 27 year-old, perennial 55 point player, who plays during all strengths and in all game situations while taking d-zone assignments and the toughest matchups?

I'd trade for that guy.

I'll take the 22-23 year old, gritty, current 45 point scorer who has potential to be a 65 point player and is still reliable defensively.

Unless there is an overpayment, I don't see it happening. Stepan is a better player than Brassard, younger and plays all situations. If we are involved in another Brass-type trade, it will be Zuccarello or Nash who is traded. I don't see Stepan leaving, because as good as Zibanejad is, he is not going to be able to fill that void (yet)

I agree we would have to be on the winning side of the deal. Only reason why i think its Step is because it's now or never (NTC goes into effect)

 

[silverfish]

I'll take the 22 year old, gritty, current 45 point scorer who has potential to be a 65 point player and is still reliable defensively.

Basically, you want to trade Stepan for Elias Lindholm.

That's gonna be a pass from me, dog.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Basically, you want to trade Stepan for Elias Lindholm.

That's gonna be a pass from me, dog.

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat, dawg.

 

[Inferno]

Over the past two years, his relCA60 is -2.79 (negative is good).

Ranks 23rd among forwards with 2000 or more minutes 5v5. (Corsica).

just outta curiosity what are Kreiders numbers? ive got a whining baby next to me so i cant dig further...

i really do wonder how much of Stepans numbers, which look great...are directly attributable to Kreider basically being glued to his hip for his entire career.....is it possible to isolate it when hes away from Kreider...id assume not.

 

[silverfish]

just outta curiosity what are Kreiders numbers? ive got a whining baby next to me so i cant dig further...

i really do wonder how much of Stepans numbers, which look great...are directly attributable to Kreider basically being glued to his hip for his entire career.....is it possible to isolate it when hes away from Kreider...id assume not.

Figured you'd ask, so I took a mental note of Kreider's. He's ranked higher than Stepan but I forget his exact number.

Kreider is a possession monster. No doubt about it.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I agree we would have to be on the winning side of the deal. Only reason why i think its Step is because it's now or never (NTC goes into effect)

You are talking about the NTC as if it's the worst thing in the world. This isn't a 30-year old broken D-man (Girardi) who gets a clause. Stepan is turning 27 years old in a month. His contract runs until he is 31, at 6.5m. He isn't overpaid for what he brings. Trading Stepan JUST because he has a NTC kicking in this summer is up there with most ridiculous reasons to trade someone, I've heard all year

 

[FLYLine27*]

You are talking about the NTC as if it's the worst thing in the world. This isn't a 30-year old broken D-man (Girardi) who gets a clause. Stepan is turning 27 years old in a month. His contract runs until he is 31, at 6.5m. He isn't overpaid for what he brings. Trading Stepan JUST because he has a NTC kicking in this summer is up there with most ridiculous reasons to trade someone, I've heard all year

Not sure why. That is a very logical reason to trade a player. Many columnists have brought that up as well. But that wouldnt be the SOLE reason to trade him(maybe that's what you're thinking because you said "just"??) but it's certainly a factor. The main reason to trade him is to get the team younger, more competitive, and hungry for now and the future. Like it or not, players WILL be traded this offseason and he has just as good a shot of being traded as Nash or Zucc.


And he is about 1M overpaid, which isn't too terrible.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Not sure why. That is a very logical reason to trade a player. Many columnists have brought that up as well. But that wouldnt be the SOLE reason to trade him(maybe that's what you're thinking because you said "just"??) but it's certainly a factor.


And he is about 1M overpaid, which isn't too terrible.

Cost per point for centers (excluding 1st and 2nd contracts, since those are cheaper, RFA years and all) this past season:

Derek Stepan: $135,417
Patrice Bergeron: $143,229
David Krejci: $145,000
Ryan Getzlaf: $142,241
Ryan O'Reilly: $156,250
Jonathan Toews: $194,444
Nathan MacKinnon: $140,000
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins: $176,471
Anze Kopitar: $227,273
Claude Giroux: $156,132
Joe Thornton: $140,625
Paul Stastny: $175,000
Henrik Sedin: $159,091


Tell me how Stepan is overpaid. That doesn't even factor in his defensive play.

Let's, for argument's sake, say we trade Stepan... How do we replace his production, PK minutes etc?

 

[FLYLine27*]

Cost per point for centers (excluding 1st and 2nd contracts, since those are cheaper, RFA years and all) this past season:

Derek Stepan: $135,417
Patrice Bergeron: $143,229
David Krejci: $145,000
Ryan Getzlaf: $142,241
Ryan O'Reilly: $156,250
Jonathan Toews: $194,444
Nathan MacKinnon: $140,000
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins: $176,471
Anze Kopitar: $227,273
Claude Giroux: $156,132
Joe Thornton: $140,625
Paul Stastny: $175,000
Henrik Sedin: $159,091


Tell me how Stepan is overpaid. That doesn't even factor in his defensive play.

Let's, for argument's sake, say we trade Stepan... How do we replace his production, PK minutes etc?

Cost per point? I'm not even going to get into that.

For argument sake we would get a player back right? So would that player put up points? Say we get a 45 point player back who is 5 years younger and not yet in his prime? PK minutes i'm not concerned about, that can be filled by a handful of players, it's not like Stepan is Bergeron out there...certainly not some elite PKer.

Oh, and your favorite, Vesey, will be better next year, he will make up that 8 point difference.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Cost per point? I'm not even going to get into that.

For argument sake we would get a player back right? So would that player put up points? Say we get a 45 point player back who is 5 years younger and not yet in his prime? PK minutes i'm not concerned about, that can be filled by a handful of players, it's not like Stepan is Bergeron out there...certainly not some elite PKer.

You started about overpayment. You started about the money-side of the argument.

Stepan at 6.5m isn't overpaid.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'll trade Stepan for Lindholm....

If Pesce is coming back with him.

 

[Inferno]

Cost per point for centers (excluding 1st and 2nd contracts, since those are cheaper, RFA years and all) this past season:

Derek Stepan: $135,417
Patrice Bergeron: $143,229
David Krejci: $145,000
Ryan Getzlaf: $142,241
Ryan O'Reilly: $156,250
Jonathan Toews: $194,444
Nathan MacKinnon: $140,000
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins: $176,471
Anze Kopitar: $227,273
Claude Giroux: $156,132
Joe Thornton: $140,625
Paul Stastny: $175,000
Henrik Sedin: $159,091


Tell me how Stepan is overpaid. That doesn't even factor in his defensive play.

Let's, for argument's sake, say we trade Stepan... How do we replace his production, PK minutes etc?

is this normalized over 82GP? or somehow normalized? A cost per point assumes that the points occur over the same time span... id say Cost per P/60 would be better.

 

[silverfish]

Can we somehow sticky in this thread that Stepan's NTC is not anywhere close to a hindrance?

It's a full NTC for two years when he'll be 27-28. It's a limited NTC for the two years after that where he can list 15 teams, and he'll be 29-30.

This is not a reason to trade the team's best center.

 

[FLYLine27*]

You started about overpayment. You started about the money-side of the argument.

Stepan at 6.5m isn't overpaid.

You may want to go back and re-read our convo. I never brought up money until you did. That was never my argument from the start.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Can we somehow sticky in this thread that Stepan's NTC is not anywhere close to a hindrance?

It's a full NTC for two years when he'll be 27-28. It's a limited NTC for the two years after that where he can list 15 teams, and he'll be 29-30.

This is not a reason to trade the team's best center.

nope.

 

[Mac n Gs]

nope.

No to what? The truth?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

is this normalized over 82GP? or somehow normalized? A cost per point assumes that the points occur over the same time span... id say Cost per P/60 would be better.

I can pro-rate the salary for you

 

[FLYLine27*]

No to what? The truth?

Nope to the "the limited NTC has no effect". Worked well with nash who likely listed all teams who could never afford him or would never need/want him in their current situations.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Nope to the "the limited NTC has no effect". Worked well with nash who likely listed all teams who could never afford him or would never need/want him in their current situations.

Are you seriously just going ignore the situations behind both players in this scenario? Nash has been plagued by injuries and has a higher cap hit. He also restricted himself by refusing to go to Canadian teams, which honestly needed him the most.