NFL: Derek Carr benched - Jarrett Stidham new Raiders QB

SirClintonPortis

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Carr will be a starter next season. It’s just a matter of how many other teams view him as a good starter.
Jets, dolphins, Texans, Titans, Colts, Giants, Commanders, Bucs, Saints, Panthers, Falcons, even the Seahawks (though I think they stick with Geno as I doubt they want to try to outbid those other clubs) don’t have a locked in QB for next season.
Carr has been in the NFL for 9 seasons and has made $135.6 mill so far. So he’s been paid well compared to other positions.
Carr has his supporters and detractors I’m sure around the nfl. IMO, Carr is what he is now. He’s been a 9 year starter and after 9 seasons will only not have started like 5 games over those 9 seasons for the raiders. So his anticipation, Accuracy, reading defences, pocket awareness, etc. is not going to improve much given all of rhe live reps he’s gotten to date. He’s somewhere between the 11-16 best starter in the nfl imo. But he needs to be paid rhe right amount. I would not pay him an average of $40 mill. Which is currently what his deal calls cap hit wise at $34 mill then $44 mill then 43 mill without any adjustments to it.

This based on the cap hits I understand LV not wanting to commit to him as he only counted under $20 mill against the cap with just $5.6 mill in dead cap in 2023. They didn’t feel that he was going to be $15 mill against the cap more productive next season.
Carr is going to be a disposable warm body just like Trubisky, but for whatever reason, he's rather treated kindly by the press, so he might get little more money and term than Trubisky, Dalton, etc from the owners as well.
 

BB88

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He got called out by Rich Gannon, Stephen A Smith, Mike Florio, Max Kellerman, the list goes on. When the Raiders got Davante Adams, his brother was selling his stock high how this offense is finally gonna show Carr's ability. Well, it never really did but Adams is having a good season.

I’m listening to plenty of these sport shows and atleast half of them are ….. by how they are handling Carr and calling how Adams should want out.

Doesn’t matter how damm bad Carr has been
 

Blitzkrug

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Expecting McDaniels to treat his players well is a fool's errand.

He did the same shit with his QB in Denver. This one is arguably worse given Carr had actual tenure though..
 
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StreetHawk

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I’m listening to plenty of these sport shows and atleast half of them are ….. by how they are handling Carr and calling how Adams should want out.

Doesn’t matter how damm bad Carr has been
Carr has his supporters and detractors. It will be interesting to see what he ultimately signs for in the open market as I don't see how Carr and the Raiders, due to Carr's NTC, along with the guaranteed $40 million that becomes due days after the SB and a month before the new league year begins after mid March, work something out.

Carr's base salary & workout bonus for 2023 was scheduled to be a total of $33 million. Followed by $42 and $41.3 million in 2024 and 2025. I don't think Carr ends up with a new contract that would be paying him $116.3 million over the next 3 seasons (even including a Signing Bonus) in real money.

The interceptions are not an outlandish number. But, he's not making enough big plays or key throws to win games. The defence may not be great this season, but Carr has had more than a few games where he could have led a game winning drive at the end of the game to win the game and failed to do so. Plus, when you can't lock down a big lead in the second half, by moving the ball and eating up clock, that's also a problem.

Just too bad for the Raiders that they won't be able to trade their QB for assets. Just due to the structure of the contract. Carr didn't get solid guaranteed money, but he ensured that if he didn't get it, he got his freedom instead, not to mention the power of the NTC.
 
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Spring in Fialta

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I’m listening to plenty of these sport shows and atleast half of them are ….. by how they are handling Carr and calling how Adams should want out.

Doesn’t matter how damm bad Carr has been

It definitely is a tricky situation for them. On the one hand, Carr has not been good this year. On the other, it's not clear that his teammates had come anywhere close to giving up on him, the Raiders are still technically alive and there's enough going wrong that you can argue nuance/adaptation to how his season has gone. I don't think he's a long-term answer and I don't think it's a clear case like Stafford was where you knew the guy could win somewhere else but I can see the argument where someone could think his career up to this point should garner him a bit more leeway. And a lot of people already don't trust Josh McDaniels. But with that guaranteed money...
 

Spring in Fialta

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By the way, considering his comments, at this point you have to think that Adams is likely to want out. Still lots of time between now and summer though.
 

StreetHawk

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It definitely is a tricky situation for them. On the one hand, Carr has not been good this year. On the other, it's not clear that his teammates had come anywhere close to giving up on him, the Raiders are still technically alive and there's enough going wrong that you can argue nuance/adaptation to how his season has gone. I don't think he's a long-term answer and I don't think it's a clear case like Stafford was where you knew the guy could win somewhere else but I can see the argument where someone could think his career up to this point should garner him a bit more leeway. And a lot of people already don't trust Josh McDaniels. But with that guaranteed money...
Carr's cap hit this season was $19.375 million. His 2023 cap hit would have been $34.875 million. So an increase of $15.5 million against the cap. Will Carr be wroth that contract?

Plus, keeping him past the deadline of when his $40 million in guaranteed money vests and he has a NTC. So, Carr could have played hardball and say I won't ok a trade unless it also comes with a renegotiated contract with more secure guaranteed money. I'm sure a couple of teams would have been willing to pay him his $33 million base salary for 2023 and gamble on eating the $7.5 million in dead cap in 2024 if he didn't perform well in 2023. But, those might not have been teams Carr would have waived his NTC to go to. So the Raiders would have been stuck with him.

Everything for the Raiders depends on what they do at QB for 2024. Is it a veteran or is it a youngster?

Raiders do have some serious roster issues. They lack quality OL aside from LT Miller. Lack a legit starting outside WR opposite Adams. Lack DT to stop the run. Another edge opposite Crosby as Jones overall has been disappointing this season. Lack CB outside of Hobbs and Robertson (who is short). S and LB, just average. And now a QB.

Just too many misses at the top of the draft with Gruden.
Should have made a decision on dealing Mack sooner so that they could have gotten 2018 first rounder from the Bears which was Roquan Smith or take Vea or Payne on the DL vs wait until 2020 for the second one.
Ferrell - swap to Josh Allen, the OLB/DE for Jax
Abrams/Mullen - not sure I see any other secondary guys to help them at that part of the draft. Would have had to go with other positions for anything else that was good like WR
Ruggs/Arnette - Wirfs at OT was a better value that WR. Would not get the Bears pick if they got it in 2018.
Leatherwood - Darrisaw at OT was on the board. Newsome at CB would have been an option.

After dealing Mack, Raiders had so many holes, the draft should have been about taking the best players over immediate need for the upcoming season. Raiders seem off by a year when it came to filling holes. Taking a WR in 2019 would mean no need to take Ruggs in 2020. Or taking Wirfs in 2020 would mean no need for Leatherwood in 2021.
 
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Voight

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5ba609f6-174a-46f9-a8e1-2851e2aad934.jpg
 

Voight

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Expecting McDaniels to treat his players well is a fool's errand.

He did the same shit with his QB in Denver. This one is arguably worse given Carr had actual tenure though..

Not to mention hes easily the 2nd best QB they've had since Plunkett retired nearly 40 years ago.
 

Live in the Now

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Probably an unpopular opinion but there was no way to handle it in a way that would make Carr happy. His feelings were going to be hurt no matter what. Someone had to risk their job making this decision though, I've been waiting since 2019 for a roadmap off this wild ride.
 

Halladay

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The Jets with Carr next season are a playoff team. So are them with a Jimmy that plays at least 12 games. Might even be a playoff team with Minshew. Carr will be a starter somewhere.
 

StreetHawk

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The Jets with Carr next season are a playoff team. So are them with a Jimmy that plays at least 12 games. Might even be a playoff team with Minshew. Carr will be a starter somewhere.
What’s the contract that you give him? No way any team was going to give him the $116 mill that he was due cash wise over the next 3 seasons. Between a signing bonus and salary what does he actually end up making over the next 3 years? In around $100 mill give or take is probably where teams want to land. Ideally under but if you are competing with other clubs it’s not likely to happen.

Carr didn’t get big signing bonus money on his deal with LV. Just $7.5 mill to make this years take home money $27 mill. The rest of the 3 years wasn’t guaranteed but it forced the raiders to make a call by 3 days after the superbowl. Otherwise the $40 mill vests and is guaranteed. Less SB but freedom if the team didn’t let the contract vest.

Will Carr look for the opposite this time and get the equivalent of 2 years average salary fully guaranteed? Which would be around $60 odd mill?
 
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EpochLink

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Expecting McDaniels to treat his players well is a fool's errand.

He did the same shit with his QB in Denver. This one is arguably worse given Carr had actual tenure though..

Carr’s leash was already short as is, I’m ready to move in from him.

Probably an unpopular opinion but there was no way to handle it in a way that would make Carr happy. His feelings were going to be hurt no matter what. Someone had to risk their job making this decision though, I've been waiting since 2019 for a roadmap off this wild ride.

Same here.
The trigger had to be pulled.
 

StreetHawk

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Carr’s leash was already short as is, I’m ready to move in from him.



Same here.
The trigger had to be pulled.
If people looked into the details of Carr’s contract on Spotrac they would see why the raiders are making this move from a financial POV as well as from a leverage POV.

Carr would have the leverage once the guaranteed money vests and with a ntc can dictate to LV where he lands. Raiders did not want to be on the hook for part of his deal and with that leverage the raiders may also have gotten too little in return to justify eating part of the contract.

This option gives them more options. $33 mill is t a horrible amount to pay Carr next season but any team wouldn’t want him for the $42 mill he’s due in 2024. Would need to rework the deal before then.

I do find the takes on these sports networks interesting. Cowherd likes Carr and thinks that there is a market for him. Florio digs into the details of the contract which he says that if Carr can’t pass the physical then the $40 mill is guaranteed. If he can pass the physical the raiders have the option to cut him without the guaranteed money but have 3 days after the SB to do so which is 6 weeks ahead of the nfl league year so any agreement that the raiders make in that time frame isn’t enforceable by the nfl. So Indyor the Jets could say we will give you a second and third for Carr and then decide to back out when the league year begins.

I’m sure the raiders would like to trade Carr but he has control and can shoot down any trade.
 
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DaaaaB's

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Carr is going to be a disposable warm body just like Trubisky, but for whatever reason, he's rather treated kindly by the press, so he might get little more money and term than Trubisky, Dalton, etc from the owners as well.

Devante Adams is a good WR but he is not Randy Moss or T.O. Aaron Rodgers had some growing pains but it seems Christian Watson or Doubs will have what Adams had come next year. There is no way Carr-Adams would be like Culpepper and Moss.

Quite frankly, I think the Adams move may not have been about the Raiders at all, but a distant way for a particular clique to screw over the Chiefs and make the AFC winnable for the Bills right now and the Pats in the future. McDaniels dismantled the Broncos...and it may have been to not have Shanahan stop the Pats like the Broncos did in 2006.
You must be smoking some good shit to come up with this stuff. The conspiracy stuff is just silly but saying Watson and especially Doubs will be as good next year as Adams was with GB is also pretty insane. Watson could become elite but Adams has been elite for years, he's not just a good receiver lol. Comparing Carr to Trubisky is ridiculous as well.
 

Voight

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I don't think there's a chance in hell the Colts go with yet another stop-gap. How can you sell that to the fanbase?

Unless they go all in on Jimmy G, their best option is to trade up in the draft and pick Young or Stroud.

They'll likely end up with a pick in the 5-7 range, fortunately for them every team worse than them except Houston has a QB in place already.
 

StreetHawk

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Unless they go all in on Jimmy G, their best option is to trade up in the draft and pick Young or Stroud.

They'll likely end up with a pick in the 5-7 range, fortunately for them every team worse than them except Houston has a QB in place already.
For Indy they don’t have a good option for next season. Seattle and Detroit they do have an option in Goff and. Free agent to be in smith. Question for those 2 teams is to figure out whether they believe any QB in this draft is likely to be better than Goff and Smith down the line. If they don’t truly believe that then they should pass on the QB.
 

GKJ

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Someone will trade for Carr, and he will restructure to make it happen. And he will not use his NTC either. We saw what teams gave up for Stafford and Wentz, Carr fits somewhere in the middle. Seeing the carousel last year, hopefully he and his camp are smart.
 
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StreetHawk

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Someone will trade for Carr, and he will restructure to make it happen. And he will not use his NTC either. We saw what teams gave up for Stafford and Wentz, Carr fits somewhere in the middle. Seeing the carousel last year, hopefully he and his camp are smart.
Per the details about Carr's contract that we are hearing, I don't think the chances of a trade for LV are very good.
1) if he could not pass his exit physical, then the $40 mill in guaranteed money (2023 Base and $7.5 mill for 2024 vests automatically). That is why they are benching him
2) If he does pass his exit physical, the Raiders have until 3 days after the Super Bowl to cut him, otherwise, his $40 mill in guaranteed money does vest. Benching Carr gives them the option to cut him and not be on the hook for that $40 million.
3) NFL league year begins after mid March, so around a 6 week time difference. If LV and another team agree on a deal during that time, it is not enforceable should one party opt out of the agreement come the start of the league year. Basically a team could McDaniels Josh McDaniels (like what he did to Indy). So, there is risk for the Raiders that Carr will be on the roster and be disgruntled.
4) Carr holds a NTC, which weakens the Raiders options to trade him. They may get less than they desire and/or have to retain part of his contract to move him.
5) Carr is pissed off and is unlikely to work with LV. Either dare them to cut him or guarantee his $40 million
6) Regardless as a free agent or trade Carr has to have a new contract. No team is going to want to have Carr count as a $42 million cap charge in 2024 and 2025 (which are his base salary and option amounts). He'd have to play like he did in 2016 when he played like an MVP but broke his ankle in game 15 vs Indy. Plus, Carr would likely want guaranteed money from another organization to ensure he is getting an opportunity to play more than 1 year for them and get his much desired stability at this point in his career. So, he might as well have 5-10 teams coming after him than be limited to who can agree to a trade with LV.

If the Raiders hold onto Carr past the date his $40 mill vests and then go onto sign say Tom Brady, Carr doesn't want to be on the bench and thus will agree to be traded. But, we saw what happened with the Browns and Baker once they acquired Watson. Ate like 2/3 of his contract to move him. That's the fear for the Raiders. Carr is better than Baker overall (not as much up and down), but you don't want to lose leverage in a transaction. Raiders would need to move Carr first then sign Brady to have the leverage that the Colts did with Wentz last season. Days later they acquired Ryan.

$33 mill isn't a horrible amount cap hit wise to take for Carr next season in a trade. Even the $7.5 mill in dead money for 2024 should it not work out isn't terrible either. But, like Russ Wilson, I don't see Carr landing in a new team without a new contract done. Reality of the leverage/business of the NFL.
 
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Halladay

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What’s the contract that you give him? No way any team was going to give him the $116 mill that he was due cash wise over the next 3 seasons. Between a signing bonus and salary what does he actually end up making over the next 3 years? In around $100 mill give or take is probably where teams want to land. Ideally under but if you are competing with other clubs it’s not likely to happen.

Carr didn’t get big signing bonus money on his deal with LV. Just $7.5 mill to make this years take home money $27 mill. The rest of the 3 years wasn’t guaranteed but it forced the raiders to make a call by 3 days after the superbowl. Otherwise the $40 mill vests and is guaranteed. Less SB but freedom if the team didn’t let the contract vest.

Will Carr look for the opposite this time and get the equivalent of 2 years average salary fully guaranteed? Which would be around $60 odd mill?
Im not sure but he will definitely be getting a starting job especially with the dearth of quarterbacks. As terrible as he has been this season that would be a superior upgrade on Wilson. Maybe WFT tries for him too along with the Colts. He'll be a starter next season.
 
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GKJ

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Per the details about Carr's contract that we are hearing, I don't think the chances of a trade for LV are very good.
1) if he could not pass his exit physical, then the $40 mill in guaranteed money (2023 Base and $7.5 mill for 2024 vests automatically). That is why they are benching him
2) If he does pass his exit physical, the Raiders have until 3 days after the Super Bowl to cut him, otherwise, his $40 mill in guaranteed money does vest. Benching Carr gives them the option to cut him and not be on the hook for that $40 million.
3) NFL league year begins after mid March, so around a 6 week time difference. If LV and another team agree on a deal during that time, it is not enforceable should one party opt out of the agreement come the start of the league year. Basically a team could McDaniels Josh McDaniels (like what he did to Indy). So, there is risk for the Raiders that Carr will be on the roster and be disgruntled.
4) Carr holds a NTC, which weakens the Raiders options to trade him. They may get less than they desire and/or have to retain part of his contract to move him.
5) Carr is pissed off and is unlikely to work with LV. Either dare them to cut him or guarantee his $40 million
6) Regardless as a free agent or trade Carr has to have a new contract. No team is going to want to have Carr count as a $42 million cap charge in 2024 and 2025 (which are his base salary and option amounts). He'd have to play like he did in 2016 when he played like an MVP but broke his ankle in game 15 vs Indy. Plus, Carr would likely want guaranteed money from another organization to ensure he is getting an opportunity to play more than 1 year for them and get his much desired stability at this point in his career. So, he might as well have 5-10 teams coming after him than be limited to who can agree to a trade with LV.
I don’t think any of that is a factor. The biggest variable is if he holds to his NTC, but no one’s doing a deal without a new contract anyways. As a starting QB (regardless of what’s been said, he still is that), that’s its own NTC. He’ll still get his $40m, they’ll convert it to other bonuses. Someone will trade for him, there’s enough teams out there.
 
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StreetHawk

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I don’t think any of that is a factor. The biggest variable is if he holds to his NTC, but no one’s doing a deal without a new contract anyways. As a starting QB (regardless of what’s been said, he still is that), that’s its own NTC. He’ll still get his $40m, they’ll convert it to other bonuses. Someone will trade for him, there’s enough teams out there.
And because he will ultimately need to do a new contract, wouldn't Carr want to pick his destination? He'd likely prefer to choose which of the 5-10 teams come calling for him which would also help to drive up his price and/or guaranteed money.

I am not sure about this waiver period after the SB. Does that mean any team can claim Carr after he is cut? If that is the case, then I can see Carr working with LV to ensure he picks his desired destination.

For the Raiders, what is the risk/reward. What is the return they can get for Carr and how much of that $40 mill in guaranteed money would they be prepared to absorb in a trade? They don't want to end up eating dead cap like Cleveland did with Baker. In around $30 mill is what Carr should be counting against your cap, so his base and option for 2023 is $33 mill. I would expect any club would look to bring down the 2024 and 2025 cap hits. So a restructure for those years seem the most likely. That other club could then leverage the Raiders to eat like $10 million of the $33 mill due to Carr in 2023 via a trade. Raiders are going to be on the hook for the balance of 3/4 of his $7.5 mill signing bonus they gave him for 2022. So around $5.6 mill.

We will see come Feb 16 whether Carr is still on the Raider's roster or has been cut. Super Bowl is played on Feb 12, 2023.
 

Voight

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For Indy they don’t have a good option for next season. Seattle and Detroit they do have an option in Goff and. Free agent to be in smith. Question for those 2 teams is to figure out whether they believe any QB in this draft is likely to be better than Goff and Smith down the line. If they don’t truly believe that then they should pass on the QB.

Yea, I forgot Seattle has Denvers pick.

I doubt they see Geno as their long term answer at QB.
 

GKJ

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And because he will ultimately need to do a new contract, wouldn't Carr want to pick his destination? He'd likely prefer to choose which of the 5-10 teams come calling for him which would also help to drive up his price and/or guaranteed money.

For the Raiders, what is the risk/reward. What is the return they can get for Carr and how much of that $40 mill in guaranteed money would they be prepared to absorb in a trade? They don't want to end up eating dead cap like Cleveland did with Baker. In around $30 mill is what Carr should be counting against your cap, so his base and option for 2023 is $33 mill. I would expect any club would look to bring down the 2024 and 2025 cap hits. So a restructure for those years seem the most likely. That other club could then leverage the Raiders to eat like $10 million of the $33 mill due to Carr in 2023 via a trade.

We will see come Feb 16 whether Carr is still on the Raider's roster or has been cut. Super Bowl is played on Feb 12, 2023.
He would be picking it be agreeing to the contract. If he doesn’t, there’s no deal. They’ll have a deal before the Super Bowl, too. Maybe they’ll get compensated for eating the cap number. Raiders will be looking for a QB, too, if it’s in the draft, they will be incentivized because they won’t have to pay him.

Yea, I forgot Seattle has Denvers pick.

I doubt they see Geno as their long term answer at QB.
They can also wait until next year. The draftniks seem to be liking that class more than this one now.
 

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