Defensively: Couturier vs Barkov

[Ainec]

Barkov ainec

 

[BB88]

You didn't ask about stats but you're asking about stats? So defensive and possession stats? Yes, most likely.

I asked the exact same stats, and yes Giroux helps him.

I still haven't heard of the skills Couts is better at, have only asked 20 times. Shouldn't be this difficult.

 

[FlaPanthers11]

The lengths that people will go to use marginal differences in team stats in a small sample to justify an absolute opinion are astounding.

I'd be surprised if Couturier is a finalist for the Selke this year.

 

[thomast]

The lengths that people will go to use marginal differences in team stats in a small sample to justify an absolute opinion are astounding.

I'd be surprised if Couturier is a finalist for the Selke this year.

Well i think he is unless Kopitar makes it with reputation. I think Kopitar should be closer to Hart tbh. He is #2 after MacKinnon for me.

 

[anders and]

Two years ago it was Barkov vs RNH
Last years it was Barkov vs Draisaitl
This years its Barkov vs Couturier.

Even though Barkov is a HF poster boy, next year i'll bet my small pension that there will be no Barkov vs. Couturier narrative, because he has surpassed him.

But what do i know, im just another poster on these boards.

 

[Appleyard]

I asked the exact same stats, and yes Giroux helps him.

I still haven't heard of the skills Couts is better at, have only asked 20 times. Shouldn't be this difficult.

From a purely defensive standpoint.

Couturier is better on the boards.
Couturier is better at denying zone entries/blue-line defense. (the stats from Sznajder are limited atm... but Couturier has the best % in the NHL of any player he has tracked.)
Couturier is better at clearing his own zone. (although Barkov is better at zone entries with possession marginally)

 

[Beezeral]

Two years ago it was Barkov vs RNH
Last years it was Barkov vs Draisaitl
This years its Barkov vs Couturier.

Even though Barkov is a HF poster boy, next year i'll bet my small pension that there will be no Barkov vs. Couturier narrative, because he has surpassed him.

But what do i know, im just another poster on these boards.

You are forgetting the original, Barkov v. Reinhart

 

[BB88]

From a purely defensive standpoint.

Couturier is better on the boards.
Couturier is better at denying zone entries/blue-line defense. (the stats from Sznajder are limited atm... but Couturier has the best % in the NHL of any player he has tracked.)
Couturier is better at clearing his own zone. (although Barkov is better at zone entries with possession marginally)

Good finally something,

So you say those, and I'll say Sasha has the best defensive stick in the league, with which he affects the play in all 3 zones, better puck protector and has been clearly better on the pk, and better on the faceoffs, he's getting heavily used in D-zone draws, again tonight 3-4 extra draws with their bottom6 in the 1st.

 

[The Rage Kage]

If you can’t see how it’s a knock against the guy in a discussion of BEST defensive player that he’s not asked to take defensive draws on his weak side, I don’t know what to tell you. In the grand scheme of evaluating a player. You are right. That fact is unimportant, but in a thread where we get into the nitty gritty, it’s a factor.

If Giroux was on Barkovs wing Barkov wouldnt be taking as many draws. G is a top 5 faceoff guy in the league. That isnt Couts fault.

 

[BB88]

If Giroux was on Barkovs wing Barkov wouldnt be taking as many draws. G is a top 5 faceoff guy in the league. That isnt Couts fault.

If Giroux was on Barkovs line Barkov would have even better stats.

Oh wait now a Flyers fan will say nope, it's all Couts.

Barkov has been one of the best faceoff men in the league this season, and gets used a lot more in D-zone draws than just on his lines shifts.

 

[Juicy Pop]

If Giroux was on Barkovs line Barkov would have even better stats.

Oh wait now a Flyers fan will say nope, it's all Couts.

Barkov has been one of the best faceoff men in the league this season, and gets used a lot more in D-zone draws than just on his lines shifts.

Probably.

Though, if you understood the interplay between Giroux and Couturier, then it would be easy to see that both are contributing to each other's success this year. Giroux would still be a wonderful C, but he now has more freedom to play aggressively. Couturier, in kind, now has quality linemates instead of the usual revolving door of Read, Raffl, Weal and any other struggling wing that has been stuck to his hip in the past. Do recall from earlier in the thread that Couturier has been our best ES scorer over the last two years and has been one of the best in the NHL since March of last year.

On that last note, faceoffs certainly are important but we've already established that Couts is no slouch and that the only real difference is in raw usage. It's not really Couturier's fault that one of the three best faceoff takers in the NHL happens to be on his LW.

 

[Adtar02]

Good finally something,

So you say those, and I'll say Sasha has the best defensive stick in the league, with which he affects the play in all 3 zones, better puck protector and has been clearly better on the pk, and better on the faceoffs, he's getting heavily used in D-zone draws, again tonight 3-4 extra draws with their bottom6 in the 1st.

no Fla PK is clearly better. Not his individual stats. Better puck protector is subjective as well

 

[FlyTimmo]

This thread turned into a joke.

Way too many people who bring nothing to discussion other than "Player X AINEC". Embarrassing really.

 

[Juicy Pop]

This thread turned into a joke.

Way too many people who bring nothing to discussion other than "Player X AINEC". Embarrassing really.

It's like every other poll thread.

There are a few people on these forums that are actually very competent, like Appleyard, but the rest of us are wandering around in the dark.

 

[BB88]

Probably.

Though, if you understood the interplay between Giroux and Couturier, then it would be easy to see that both are contributing to each other's success this year. Giroux would still be a wonderful C, but he now has more freedom to play aggressively. Couturier, in kind, now has quality linemates instead of the usual revolving door of Read, Raffl, Weal and any other struggling wing that has been stuck to his hip in the past. Do recall from earlier in the thread that Couturier has been our best ES scorer over the last two years and has been one of the best in the NHL since March of last year.

On that last note, faceoffs certainly are important but we've already established that Couts is no slouch and that the only real difference is in raw usage. It's not really Couturier's fault that one of the three best faceoff takers in the NHL happens to be on his LW.

I'm not saying it's 100% Giroux but it's laughable to suggest Couts would have exactly the same stats withotu Giroux on his line. He's the teams franchise player and at his peak one of the best players in the entire league.

no Fla PK is clearly better. Not his individual stats. Better puck protector is subjective as well

Barkov has the best defensive stick in the league, that's a pretty big help on pk, he himself has 5 shorthanded goals this season,, he's only -2 on pk for this entire season.

 

[Juicy Pop]

I'm not saying it's 100% Giroux but it's laughable to suggest Couts would have exactly the same stats withotu Giroux on his line. He's the teams franchise player and at his peak one of the best players in the entire league.



Barkov has the best defensive stick in the league, that's a pretty big help on pk, he himself has 5 shorthanded goals this season,, he's only -2 on pk for this entire season.

It's a good thing that I didn't then; Couturier is likely a 55-60 point player on his own from here on out.

You're treading upon a strawman here.

 

[BB88]

It's a good thing that I didn't then; Couturier is likely a 55-60 point player on his own from here on out.

You're treading upon a strawman here.

This is his 1st year with over 55 points and 55 points isn't exatly elite.

 

[Juicy Pop]

This is his 1st year with over 55 points and 55 points isn't exatly elite.

Cool? I don't believe that anyone is arguing that Couturier has been a better producer than Barkov.

Again, what is the topic of this thread?

 

[StoneHands]

Cool? I don't believe that anyone is arguing that Couturier has been a better producer than Barkov.

Again, what is the topic of this thread?

The topic of this thread is offense and who has the better linemates, obviously.

 

[BB88]

Cool? I don't believe that anyone is arguing that Couturier has been a better producer than Barkov.

Again, what is the topic of this thread?

It turned into offensive after the 1st posts.

 

[Juicy Pop]

It turned into offensive after the 1st posts.

And so you're locked into that?

 

[BB88]

And so you're locked into that?

Well I've asked you one question about 20 times and you've answered it 0 times, could make this more versatile.

 

[SotasicA]

Couturier to me is the better shutdown forward. Very impressed by his defensive game. Barkov is more an all-rounder. Couturier has more holes in his game. But shutting down the opposition is not one of them.

 

[FlaPanthers11]

We're talking defensively but if you want to talk offense, we can briefly

Barkov: EVEN STRENGTH
G/60: 0.8
A1/60: 1.0
A2/60: 0.9
P/60: 2.7

COUTURIER: EVEN STRENGTH
6/60: 1.15
A1/60: 1.1
A2/60: .55
P/60: 2.8

Couturier faces tougher minutes and and is the better goal scorer and primary assist player while Barkov has an astronomical amount of secondary assist in comparison..

Now, back to defense

I'm late on this but I love that you included 3 on 3 in these stats. Let's compare 5 on 5.

Barkov: 5 on 5
G/60: 0.67
A1/60: 0.9
A2/60: 0.9
P/60: 2.47 (30th in the league)

Couturier: 5 on 5
G/60: 0.86
A1/60: 0.97
A2/60: 0.32
P/60: 2.16 (58th in the league)

If you want to hang everything on these per 60 stats please do but then I'm inclined to give you reasons as to why Nick Bjugstad is a top 30 goal scorer in the league and I couldn't do that without laughing.

 

[BritainStix]

The little recognition that Couturier gets in this league is quite fascinating. He's probably been the second best defensive forward in the league for the last 3 years, there are significant stats to back this up. I can't recall where I saw it, but isn't Couturier playing the most minutes out of any forward in the league right now?

Barkov is right up there with him as a great player. I do question how much rolling Andrew Macdonald, Brandon Manning, the corpse of Mark Streit and Nick Schultz had on his defensive numbers. Not to mention, we don't have a Robert Luongo in net....

Whatever it is, they are both fantastic players. The rest of this thread is just utter drivel.