Confirmed with Link: Declan Chisholm claimed by Minnesota.

Thechozen1

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Don't think so.. think he'd have been traded if there was any interest
There’s definitely suitors for him just not at the asking price in trade. As a free roll of the dice waiver claim, why not?

That won’t happen though on Chevy’s watch. If anything, he’ll be the addition in a bigger trade to extract more value.
 

Maukkis

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Going into NHL training camp with the same overpriced d-core that got us to a first round exit last year. Feeling bad for Heinola and Chisholm right now.
Yeah, they really botched that aspect of the offseason. They needed to find a way to dump Dillon and Stanley, but unfortunately, it was not to be.

I never wish for injuries, but that is about the only way we can avoid losing Chisholm this year and Heinola the next for sweet, sweet nothing. They need to get at least 20-30 games each, which we somehow didn't think to give them (=Chis) when they were exempt from waivers... instead, the same mediocre defense that has already proven itself to not be good was kept intact. Great.

And yes, our defense was terrible during the pandemic years, but the fix will arguably end up being even worse: overpaying in trades for the mediocre Schmidt and Dillon, only to achieve nothing and to block two of our best D prospects from ever getting a shot with the team. That stings like hell.
 

KingBogo

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Chisholm has been elite in the AHL since he’s arrived and arguably has been better than Heinola (granted he is a year older). I’m not arguing for the long-term future of Chisholm in the organization or how he compares to Dillon, or what not, but from his perspective what else should he do to earn a look in the NHL (either here or elsewhere)?
You should define what you mean by elite at the AHL level. From what I’ve seen and any easily available stats would suggest Chisholm is a middle pairing AHL player which usually translates to a deep depth NHLer unless that player has something unique in their game that translates well to the NHL level. Would Capo also be considered an elite AHL defenceman as at the same age his counting numbers were better than Chisholm’s?
 

snowkiddin

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You should define what you mean by elite at the AHL level. From what I’ve seen and any easily available stats would suggest Chisholm is a middle pairing AHL player which usually translates to a deep depth NHLer unless that player has something unique in their game that translates well to the NHL level. Would Capo also be considered an elite AHL defenceman as at the same age his counting numbers were better than Chisholm’s?
I am not heavily invested in the conversation but Chisholm was an AHL All Star last year, has improved year after year since his breakout D+1 in, has experience succeeding on a top pair in the AHL and performed well in his brief tenure in the NHL. Perhaps elite was the wrong word to use, I was just repeating what I saw earlier in the thread, as it seemed to align with what I’ve seen from him when I watch him and with his accolades. If that’s not accurate, then, yeah, that answers my question as to why he hasn’t deserved another look.

I’m interested in seeing the data that shows him performing as a middle pairing AHL defenceman. If that’s the case, then I’m right there with you and I don’t believe he deserves a shot, even though those stats conflict with what I’ve seen.

I’m not arguing Chisholm be thrown into the lineup, nor am I arguing he’s not being developed properly, nor that he’s for sure an NHL player, I was just curious, from his perspective, what else he needs to do to earn a look SOMEWHERE (whether by making the Jets or being a waiver claim). I wasn’t ready to regulate him to deep NHL depth at this point yet.

As for Capo, if the numbers reflect that he was better, then sure, maybe he was elite in the AHL as well. Granted, he did get a shot to prove himself in the NHL which is what I think is the extent of what people are arguing for with Chisholm. Someone was in here earlier saying his defence and durability wasn’t great, I’m not gonna touch that as I’m not invested enough in his career to know.

I did like what Capo provided last year FWIW
 

tbcwpg

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I am not heavily invested in the conversation but Chisholm was an AHL All Star last year, has improved year after year since his breakout D+1 in, has experience succeeding on a top pair in the AHL and performed well in his brief tenure in the NHL. Perhaps elite was the wrong word to use, I was just repeating what I saw earlier in the thread, as it seemed to align with what I’ve seen from him when I watch him and with his accolades. If that’s not accurate, then, yeah, that answers my question as to why he hasn’t deserved another look.

I’m interested in seeing the data that shows him performing as a middle pairing AHL defenceman. If that’s the case, then I’m right there with you and I don’t believe he deserves a shot, even though those stats conflict with what I’ve seen.

I’m not arguing Chisholm be thrown into the lineup, nor am I arguing he’s not being developed properly, nor that he’s for sure an NHL player, I was just curious, from his perspective, what else he needs to do to earn a look SOMEWHERE (whether by making the Jets or being a waiver claim). I wasn’t ready to regulate him to deep NHL depth at this point yet.

As for Capo, if the numbers reflect that he was better, then sure, maybe he was elite in the AHL as well. Granted, he did get a shot to prove himself in the NHL which is what I think is the extent of what people are arguing for with Chisholm. Someone was in here earlier saying his defence and durability wasn’t great, I’m not gonna touch that as I’m not invested enough in his career to know.

I did like what Capo provided last year FWIW

Capo got a shot with a bad Arizona team, a different situation than the Jets are in. That's the challenge teams face, not only the Jets, but other teams trying to be somewhat competitive - do you try to bring in young players to give them a shot or are you trying to bank as many points as you can. You could argue that he's better than Stanley (I don't know enough to say, I thought he was a right shot all this time), but we saw with Stanley he ended up in the PB, and it's likely Chisholm would've bounced in and out of there. So the question is, is that a good thing for him or is it ultimately better to play more minutes in the AHL at his point in his career?
 

tbcwpg

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I am not heavily invested in the conversation but Chisholm was an AHL All Star last year, has improved year after year since his breakout D+1 in, has experience succeeding on a top pair in the AHL and performed well in his brief tenure in the NHL. Perhaps elite was the wrong word to use, I was just repeating what I saw earlier in the thread, as it seemed to align with what I’ve seen from him when I watch him and with his accolades. If that’s not accurate, then, yeah, that answers my question as to why he hasn’t deserved another look.

I’m interested in seeing the data that shows him performing as a middle pairing AHL defenceman. If that’s the case, then I’m right there with you and I don’t believe he deserves a shot, even though those stats conflict with what I’ve seen.

I’m not arguing Chisholm be thrown into the lineup, nor am I arguing he’s not being developed properly, nor that he’s for sure an NHL player, I was just curious, from his perspective, what else he needs to do to earn a look SOMEWHERE (whether by making the Jets or being a waiver claim). I wasn’t ready to regulate him to deep NHL depth at this point yet.

As for Capo, if the numbers reflect that he was better, then sure, maybe he was elite in the AHL as well. Granted, he did get a shot to prove himself in the NHL which is what I think is the extent of what people are arguing for with Chisholm. Someone was in here earlier saying his defence and durability wasn’t great, I’m not gonna touch that as I’m not invested enough in his career to know.

I did like what Capo provided last year FWIW

Capo got a shot with a bad Arizona team, a different situation than the Jets are in. That's the challenge teams face, not only the Jets, but other teams trying to be somewhat competitive - do you try to bring in young players to give them a shot or are you trying to bank as many points as you can. You could argue that he's better than Stanley (I don't know enough to say, I thought he was a right shot all this time), but we saw with Stanley he ended up in the PB, and it's likely Chisholm would've bounced in and out of there. So the question is, is that a good thing for him or is it ultimately better to play more minutes in the AHL at his point in his career?
 
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Atoyot

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You should define what you mean by elite at the AHL level. From what I’ve seen and any easily available stats would suggest Chisholm is a middle pairing AHL player which usually translates to a deep depth NHLer unless that player has something unique in their game that translates well to the NHL level. Would Capo also be considered an elite AHL defenceman as at the same age his counting numbers were better than Chisholm’s?
It feels like you're trying real hard to create a narrative here. Chisholm has absolutely been a top pairing AHL defenseman for 3 years now and easily available stats aren't everything when projecting defensemen. Stats that aren't so easily available (and watching him) show that he's been elite defensively in the AHL. You're projecting him as if he's an offense only player which is incorrect.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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So are you playing devils advocate or not? You literally said you are, then you aren't, then you are and again you aren't. Your are talking in circles.

The Jets did retool with The Dubois trade. They got younger and deeper. I don't know why anyone one would think of trading Dillon. I've never heard a single credible rumor about that. True North has been pretty clear there isn't going to be a rebuild unless things get real bad.

Does Chisholm's skill level play into this at all? We are talking about a 23 year old (24 this season) who has barely earned a sniff of the NHL. Something pretty magical is suddenly going to have to happen REAL quick to start putting this guy into long term conversations. The Jets can get another Chisholm off waivers 3 or 4 times a year. They have 3 other Chisholm's already in Heinola, Stanley and Cabobianco. How does Dillon he get into a conversation about Chisholm?


:laugh: I played devils advocate in 1 post to point out factors beyond just who is a better player in a vacuum.

In my next post on the subject I clarified that I am not an advocate of trading Dillon.

I wouldn't call 1 trade of 1 player a retool myself, but I can see how you would. That trade changed the team quite a bit. There is a chicken or egg thing going on here. Did the Dubois trade lead the Jets to back away from a larger rebuild/retool? Or was it always the limit to the retool they planned? Either way it is the apparent commitment to win now that rules out any consideration of trading Dillon.

So discussing Dillon vs Chisholm is pointless. That is not the choice here. But the fact that Dillon is entering the last year of his contract makes it all the more important to keep Chisholm.

So, how do Jets manage that? They could trade a Dman not JMo, Dillon, Samberg or DeMelo and probably not Pionk or Schmidt either. So Stanley. Or they could waive 1 of Stanley, Capobianco or Chisholm.

Of those 3, Stanley is the most likely to be claimed. The other 2 would also likely be claimed most of the time but there is a good chance they clear at cut down time.

But I digress. It is not Dillon vs Chisholm. IMO it is keep Chisholm over 1 of Stanley or Capo. But even that should be a TC decision. He should need to beat out 1 of those 2 to win a job in the PB.
 
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DRW204

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Chisholm niku petan... the list goes on and on. List of prospects who were overrated by hfboards.com prospects lovers.

Dude is 23. It's now or never for him.
I wouldn't say now or never however as he approaches 24-25 the chances of him being an NHL regular or difference maker is obviously dwindling.

Even going back to his debut 2 years ago... It took 5(!) Defenceman getting covid and being placed on protocol to get him in the line-up.

The following offseason the Jets made 0 trades of their regular top-6 and also added Capo. And evidently the transactions so far suggest their content with what they have too. Maybe he can be a PB defenseman this year :dunno:... Wonder how many will complain or clamour through the year that he needs playing time if that's the case.
 

Joe Hallenback

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I think a guy can be a very good AHLer and not be the same guy in the NHL. Chisholm's problem is who is he going to play ahead of right now? I mean is he better then Heinola ?
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Yeah, they really botched that aspect of the offseason. They needed to find a way to dump Dillon and Stanley, but unfortunately, it was not to be.

I never wish for injuries, but that is about the only way we can avoid losing Chisholm this year and Heinola the next for sweet, sweet nothing. They need to get at least 20-30 games each, which we somehow didn't think to give them (=Chis) when they were exempt from waivers... instead, the same mediocre defense that has already proven itself to not be good was kept intact. Great.

And yes, our defense was terrible during the pandemic years, but the fix will arguably end up being even worse: overpaying in trades for the mediocre Schmidt and Dillon, only to achieve nothing and to block two of our best D prospects from ever getting a shot with the team. That stings like hell.

I think you are not exactly wrong here but overstating your case.

1. Apparently the deeper stats say that our D corps last year was not all that bad.
2. Pionk and Schmidt are overpaid. That does not make them bad, just inefficient use of cap space.
3. Dillon should not be on your list to be dumped.
4. Just imagine last year's D corps with Pionk replaced by a legit 2RHD. Lets say Ryan Pulock, just for example. (If we had RP I would play him on 1st pair but that is a longer discussion about who pairs with who.)

The above ignores the fact that 2 of our current top 4 Dmen are entering their pre-UFA seasons. That is yet another longer discussion. But it does mean that we can't afford to lose those prospects.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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I wouldn't say now or never however as he approaches 24-25 the chances of him being an NHL regular or difference maker is obviously dwindling.

Even going back to his debut 2 years ago... It took 5(!) Defenceman getting covid and being placed on protocol to get him in the line-up.

The following offseason the Jets made 0 trades of their regular top-6 and also added Capo. And evidently the transactions so far suggest their content with what they have too. Maybe he can be a PB defenseman this year :dunno:... Wonder how many will complain or clamour through the year that he needs playing time if that's the case.

I don't really want to see him PB, but if there is no room and there are no injuries that could be what happens. What I am arguing for right now is primarily don't lose him for nothing. I would also like to see him given a fair chance but I expect that if he is kept as a 7/8, injuries will get him that chance.

If he gets that chance and fails to take advantage of it, at least then we will know what we have, or do not have.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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I think a guy can be a very good AHLer and not be the same guy in the NHL. Chisholm's problem is who is he going to play ahead of right now? I mean is he better then Heinola ?

He very well might be better than Heinola but Heinola is still waiver exempt so he is not the one Chisholm needs to beat for a job. He is competing against Stanley and Capo.
 

Atoyot

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I wouldn't say now or never however as he approaches 24-25 the chances of him being an NHL regular or difference maker is obviously dwindling.

Even going back to his debut 2 years ago... It took 5(!) Defenceman getting covid and being placed on protocol to get him in the line-up.

The following offseason the Jets made 0 trades of their regular top-6 and also added Capo. And evidently the transactions so far suggest their content with what they have too. Maybe he can be a PB defenseman this year :dunno:... Wonder how many will complain or clamour through the year that he needs playing time if that's the case.
It's been reported since last offseason that they've been trying to move defensemen to make room for younger players, the defensemen they want to move are signed too long and for too much for other teams to want them. That doesn't really strike me as being happy with what they have.
 

DRW204

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It's been reported since last offseason that they've been trying to move defensemen to make room for younger players, the defensemen they want to move are signed too long and for too much for other teams to want them. That doesn't really strike me as being happy with what they have.
Link to report of them trying to make room for current younger players?

they apparently were in around Sanheim who is signed to long term.... Which would lead to more blocking of current younger players
 

Atoyot

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Link to report of them trying to make room for current younger players?

they apparently were in around Sanheim who is signed to long term.... Which would lead to more blocking of current younger players
It was during the 2022 offseason it was reported, don't have time to go archive digging but I'll try to look for it later.
 

FlappyGiraffe

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Link to report of them trying to make room for current younger players?

they apparently were in around Sanheim who is signed to long term.... Which would lead to more blocking of current younger players
IIRC during chevy's free agency presser a few months ago he alluded to trying to move some D.
 

DRW204

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It was during the 2022 offseason it was reported, don't have time to go archive digging but I'll try to look for it later.
IIRC during chevy's free agency presser a few months ago he alluded to trying to move some D.

Hmm ok. Just gonna preface, if it's anything from Ken Wiebe might as well toss it in the trash :laugh:

Edit
Did a quick browse through Aavcocups twitter account and he did post on July 2nd (assuming this is from a fa press conference) that other teams were interested in Jets d but no deal has come to fruition so perhaps nothing appealing enough for Chevy to move them.
 
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LowLefty

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Link to report of them trying to make room for current younger players?

they apparently were in around Sanheim who is signed to long term.... Which would lead to more blocking of current younger players
The only thing I've read or heard was that they were going to have another look at Ville and there were hopes that he could make the jump - but nothing beyond that from what I've heard.
I honestly can't see the Jets moving vets out at this point if they in fact feel they have the pcs to "win" - we really don't have anything on the Moose that makes us better if we decided to take that approach.
Now if we were blowing it up - different story - but it's become clear lately that we are not going that route (at least not this season).
 

abax44

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Both Heinola and Chisholm have had success in the AHL, does either of them have a realistic chance to sick with the big club this year or are we looking down the road maybe never in Heinola's case
Both Heinola and Chisholm have had success in the AHL. Do either of them have a realistic chance to stick with the big club this year, or are we looking down the road? Perhaps never in Heinola's case

*Translated to English for anyone else who hates run-on sentences.*
 

DRW204

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The only thing I've read or heard was that they were going to have another look at Ville and there were hopes that he could make the jump - but nothing beyond that from what I've heard.
I honestly can't see the Jets moving vets out at this point if they in fact feel they have the pcs to "win" - we really don't have anything on the Moose that makes us better if we decided to take that approach.
Now if we were blowing it up - different story - but it's become clear lately that we are not going that route (at least not this season).

agreed.

going into last year chevy mentioned they wanted to see how the current D group looked under a new staff.... this team followed it up by making made big improvements defensively and on the pk. i really don't see them moving some of their key defenders to make room for a prospect or 2 in a win-now year. if they were hurting for cap-space that's a different story. you need serviceable and dependable NHL depth on the back-end.
 
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bumblebeeman

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So where do you guys think he really is in the Jets depth chart?
Morrissey
Demelo
Dillon
Pionk
Schmidt
Samberg

--------

Stanley

Then Capo/Chisholm/Heinola fighting for the 2nd press box spot?

Pretty tough fight for those guys in the pre-season and training camp. I assume Chisholm and Heinola will be sent down, but it could be Capo I guess if one of them looks great (tho Heinola sitting in the pressbox isn't great)
 
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DRW204

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So where do you guys think he really is in the Jets depth chart?
Morrissey
Demelo
Dillon
Pionk
Schmidt
Samberg

--------

Stanley

Then Capo/Chisholm/Heinola fighting for the 2nd press box spot?

Pretty tough fight for those guys in the pre-season and training camp. I assume Chisholm and Heinola will be sent down, but it could be Capo I guess if one of them looks great (tho Heinola sitting in the pressbox isn't great)
i think Capo would be the one getting waived. but id say he filled in real nicely last season, in a year where the Jets didn't have a lot of injuries on the back-end. put it this way, it took 4 Defenseman going on covid IR for Chisholm to get an NHL game. the only thing that has changed since then is Capo in for Beaulieu now. i think the depth chart is basically as you suggested.
 
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JetsUK

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It feels like you're trying real hard to create a narrative here. Chisholm has absolutely been a top pairing AHL defenseman for 3 years now and easily available stats aren't everything when projecting defensemen. Stats that aren't so easily available (and watching him) show that he's been elite defensively in the AHL. You're projecting him as if he's an offense only player which is incorrect.

No longer talking prospect D here, so just wanted to add that IMO relying on those often opaque and sometimes seemingly random AHL counting stats can be tricky when evaluating D prospects especially in that league.

As a D for the Moose you're often playing all over the shop in terms of pairings, setups and situations, and as a veteran being used to support specific FW groupings and players for evaluation and dev purposes -- there's no effort made by org or coaches towards making you look good or pounding out the point totals a la 2022-3 Karlsson. So if you're not watching the games you're not seeing the player really.

That's how some narratives can persist perhaps, like Chisholm as a "good in the A and that's it" player, or Heinola as a meek and non-combative defender who shirks contact and is unable to dictate play, etc. I can't get the AHL reliably over here, so didn't see much of Chisholm last season, but I've seen pretty much ever previous game he played with the Moose and along with Heinola he has been one of the league's elite for years now. He channels play, is strong defensively and versatile on special teams and plays an excellent, steady mostly error-free game that likely translates to the NHL in a manner that's not dissimilar to Samberg's, with less size but better skating and good offensive upside.

I don't see him as a middle-tier D in the AHL at any point in his career there and I doubt the scouts or org do either. And he is likely IMO a better D overall than Stanley, who has height, or Capo, who lacks top-end skating and IMO thinks the game more slowly from what I've seen of him.

I still Heinola is the more brilliant but also riskier defender. But in the end the Schmidt and Pionk contracts, plus the extra year for Capo The Good Solidier and Stanley signing mean that it's back to the AHL certainly for Heinola and probably for Chisholm, unless Stan is traded and/or Capo waived. And if I'm Chisholm I'm doing everything I can to force a trade to an org where there's an opening before it's too late.

I really don't see this logjam as about our D prospects' failure to launch -- no one's "kicking the door down" with a few games a year and guaranteed benching / demotion if they make even an ordinary mistake -- something you see Pionk do 8-20 times a game -- because we all know there's no way Pionk gets benched even with 2 seasons' worth (at least) of play so embarrassingly bad that he's actively handcuffing the team, and the headache of Schmidt who can play well but is clearly vastly overpaid and overterm'd for what he's brought.

This is not a prospect problem. It's a Chevy / org problem and it's been in the making for years. Hopefully he'll figure it out.
 

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