Confirmed with Link: Declan Chisholm claimed by Minnesota.

[Mortimer Snerd]

my OP was operating in the lens of what i think the Jets will do. not fantasy-hockey HF talk that hardly ever comes to fruition. hence leading off my points in the OP with "I don't think the Jets will...." & "It seems like Bowness really liked the D group..."

and what criteria or methods of assessment are you looking at that showcases this team is better off replacing dillon in a roundabout way with chisholm?

Just to play devils advocate here a bit - If Chisholm is not kept in the NHL (PB or not, I don't care) he is lost to waivers. If Dillon is not extended, he goes UFA next year and we have neither of them.

So, if Dillon can be moved for anything of value that has to be taken into consideration as well as the ~2.1 mil cap saving and the longer term value of keeping Chisholm.

 

[surixon]

Just to play devils advocate here a bit - If Chisholm is not kept in the NHL (PB or not, I don't care) he is lost to waivers. If Dillon is not extended, he goes UFA next year and we have neither of them.

So, if Dillon can be moved for anything of value that has to be taken into consideration as well as the ~2.1 mil cap saving and the longer term value of keeping Chisholm.

Good point. Factor in that DeMelo can also walk if he so chooses and we could be down two top 4 dmen. It doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense from an asset management perspective to throw away young near NHL ready cost controlled dmen. We will likely need both of Heniola/Chisholm for the year after next.

 

[bustamente]

Both Heinola and Chisholm have had success in the AHL, does either of them have a realistic chance to sick with the big club this year or are we looking down the road maybe never in Heinola's case

 

[TS Quint]

Why would you feel bad for the Jets? This is entirely on them. It is the strongest indictment of their ability to draft and develop defenseman than anything else right now. The way I see it, the Jets were unable to get any qualitative value for offloading the overburgeoning defensemen they have on their back end, and they are more valuable to them as proven NHL defense. Conversely, they aren't able to get anything else substantial value for unproven NHL defenseman, but they can't unseat the incumbents because of their contract status.

The Jets have no true number one defenseman, have a number two, two number three's, a number four, and about six number sixes. Heinola and Chisholm are capable of NHL games right now. They are fighting with Stanley and Capobianco for the press box.

I feel bad for the Jets because that’s the team I cheer for? I’m not cheering for the players over the team like a lot of the prospect pumpers.

Contract status isn’t stopping the best players from playing.

 

[TS Quint]

Just to play devils advocate here a bit - If Chisholm is not kept in the NHL (PB or not, I don't care) he is lost to waivers. If Dillon is not extended, he goes UFA next year and we have neither of them.

So, if Dillon can be moved for anything of value that has to be taken into consideration as well as the ~2.1 mil cap saving and the longer term value of keeping Chisholm.

And then the free agents start coming to Winnipeg? Maybe we get another Kulikov type for $5m? Jets don’t need cap space they need players.

Until shown otherwise the difference between Dillon and Chisholm is far more than $2.1m

 

[surixon]

And then the free agents start coming to Winnipeg? Maybe we get another Kulikov type for $5m? Jets don’t need cap space they need players.

Until shown otherwise the difference between Dillon and Chisholm is far more than $2.1m

The catch is its hard to show if you aren't given the opportunity.

Cap space efficiency is paramount in this league and it's easier if you aren't paying top dollars to bottom of the roster players. I would think the Jets would be in a much more flexible position if they filled bottom of roster roles with cheap homegrown talent instead of continually going out and getting expensive depth dmen like Myers, Schmidt, Kulikov etc.

 

[Weezeric]

The catch is its hard to show if you aren't given the opportunity.

Cap space efficiency is paramount in this league and it's easier if you aren't paying top dollars bottom of roster players. I would think the Jets would be in a much more flexible position if they filled bottom of roster roles with cheap homegrown talent instead of continual going out and getting expensive depth dmen like Myers, Schmidt, Kulikov etc.

I’d argue that’s exactly what the Jets are doing. Last year their 7-8-9 defencemen were 20,24,25 all for under a million.

They had incredible injury luck on the backend though. Missing only 22 games from their top 5 D. Plus the Jets were a good defensive team.

To be honest, Capobianco played the best of that group by far.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

And then the free agents start coming to Winnipeg? Maybe we get another Kulikov type for $5m? Jets don’t need cap space they need players.

Until shown otherwise the difference between Dillon and Chisholm is far more than $2.1m

Yes, no doubt - but Dillon is for 1 year only and Chisholm is long term. Also consider what we might get for Dillon.

I'm not advocating for a Dillon trade. I'm simply pointing out the value in keeping Chisholm around. In the PB is fine. Trading/waiving Stanley/Capo to open a spot for him is fine. Losing him like we lost Kovacevic is not fine.

 

[surixon]

I’d argue that’s exactly what the Jets are doing. Last year their 7-8-9 defencemen were 20,24,25 all for under a million.

They had incredible injury luck on the backend though. Missing only 22 games from their top 5 D. Plus the Jets were a good defensive team.

To be honest, Capobianco played the best of that group by far.

I meant the 4-6 slots not 7-9. All teams have < 1 million cap hit players in those roles.

I don't like paying Schmit $6 million to be our number 5 dmen. It's not an efficient use of cap space. Dillion is fine for his cap hit in his role as the number $4. Pionk would be ok if he played up to his role but he's been bad for a couple of years so is providing real poor value.

 

[DRW204]

I’d argue that’s exactly what the Jets are doing. Last year their 7-8-9 defencemen were 20,24,25 all for under a million.

They had incredible injury luck on the backend though. Missing only 22 games from their top 5 D. Plus the Jets were a good defensive team.

To be honest, Capobianco played the best of that group by far.

Yup the Jets were a solid defensive team last year. Bowness reiterated recently the Jets good defensive play and wanting to maintain that. I don't think moving Dillon is the right move to achieve that.

Agreed on your injury luck, and grading of Capobianco. Don't think people are willing to admit Capo played the best of the 3 (7-8-9Ds) last year.

 

[Weezeric]

Yup the Jets were a solid defensive team last year. Bowness reiterated recently the Jets good defensive play and wanting to maintain that. I don't think moving Dillon is the right move to achieve that.

Agreed on your injury luck, and grading of Capobianco. Don't think people are willing to admit Capo played the best of the 3 (7-8-9Ds) last year.

I’d be curious to see the differences of opinion if Capo was a Jets draft choice and Chisholm was a signed UFA.

 

[TS Quint]

The catch is its hard to show if you aren't given the opportunity.

Cap space efficiency is paramount in this league and it's easier if you aren't paying top dollars to bottom of the roster players. I would think the Jets would be in a much more flexible position if they filled bottom of roster roles with cheap homegrown talent instead of continually going out and getting expensive depth dmen like Myers, Schmidt, Kulikov etc.

Oh, i see. Who are the Jets going to get? Do you think they haven’t been looking for good players on low value contracts?

 

[DRW204]

Because they aren’t better than anyone on the “overpriced d-core”? I don’t feel bad for players who are worse than Schmidt, I feel bad for the Jets. This isn’t a high bar.

I wonder how often do competing teams regularly trade out of their ~20 mins a night, regular NHL dmen (who actually performed well) for non-elite/ fringe AHL prospects.

Reading this board you'd think this is a regular or popular practice around the league. But not sure how valid that is. There's times I'm sure it's been done b/c of cap space, but just for the sake of making room for a fringe nhl/ahl player

And I'm not talking making roster space for makar, fox, heiskanen, etc. the elite prospect tier. The Heinola or Chisholms of the world.

 

[surixon]

I wonder how often do competing teams really trade out of their ~20 mins a night, regular NHL dmen (who actually performed well) for non-elite/ fringe AHL prospects. Reading this board you'd think this is a regular or popular practice around the league. But not sure how valid that is.

And I'm not talking making roster space for makar, fox, heiskanen, etc. the elite prospect tier. The Heinola or Chisholms of the world.

Well the cap has forced many teams to do so. Tampa with McDonaugh is a recent example. Nick Perbix who they drafted in round 6 was the beneficiary of it. So yes great teams are always trying to maximize cap efficiency or they are forced into it.

 

[DRW204]

Well the cap has forced many teams to do so. Tampa with McDonaugh is a recent example. Nick Perbix who they drafted in round 6 was the beneficiary of it. So yes great teams are always trying to maximize cap efficiency.

Got me before the edit. We aren't desperate for space like Tbl

I’d be curious to see the differences of opinion if Capo was a Jets draft choice and Chisholm was a signed UFA.

I think you know the answer to that lol.

 

[TS Quint]

Yes, no doubt - but Dillon is for 1 year only and Chisholm is long term. Also consider what we might get for Dillon.

I'm not advocating for a Dillon trade. I'm simply pointing out the value in keeping Chisholm around. In the PB is fine. Trading/waiving Stanley/Capo to open a spot for him is fine. Losing him like we lost Kovacevic is not fine.

Is Chisholm long term? Is he that good? I don’t think the Jets are convinced.

What are the Jets going to get for Dillon or his cap space? I don’t think the Jets need another forward. Another defenseman?Maybe a player better than Chisholm so that leaves him in the same place. Definitely not better than Dillon. So the Jets just take a step back so we can have a worse player for longer?

The crying over the spilt milk known as Kovacevic needs to stop. He got to play in the NHL because the Habs are the shits. That’s his role in the league. That’s why the waiver wire exists.

I can’t wait for training camp to start so people can get all excited again about good AHL players playing good against AHL players then be mad at Chevy because some cap strapped team picks one of these guys up to fill out their 13th forward. The whining over nothing waiver wire players gets to be over the top.

 

[surixon]

Got me before the edit. We aren't desperate for space like Tbl


I think you know the answer to that lol.

Not at the moment no but we may need it next season depending on what happens with some players.

If they can convince Helle to reup - that's $9 plus million.

DeMelo is probably around $4 as is Nino.

If Perfetti goes off they may elect to lock him up long term for $8 like what has happened with his draft peers lately.

I'd like to see what we have with Chisholm who very well might be needed as a full time player next season.

If injuries hit I hope he and Ville are given looks over Stanley.

 

[TS Quint]

I wonder how often do competing teams regularly trade out of their ~20 mins a night, regular NHL dmen (who actually performed well) for non-elite/ fringe AHL prospects.

Reading this board you'd think this is a regular or popular practice around the league. But not sure how valid that is. There's times I'm sure it's been done b/c of cap space, but just for the sake of making room for a fringe nhl/ahl player

And I'm not talking making roster space for makar, fox, heiskanen, etc. the elite prospect tier. The Heinola or Chisholms of the world.

Some people just want to throw away known commodities for what’s in the box.

 

[surixon]

Some people just want to throw away known commodities for what’s in the box.

View attachment 743026

What about throwing away known bad commodities? Some coaches and GMs have problems with that concept.

 

[TS Quint]

What about throwing away known bad commodities? Some coaches and GMs have problems with that concept.

What are you talking about? Dillon? I don’t think he’s a bad player. Hes near infinitely better than Chisholm.

 

[surixon]

I disagree. Dillon isn’t a bad commodity.

I was talking in general not about any particular player. I also agree Dillion is a useful player, unfortunately he has no chemistry (not that anyone does these days) with our inked in number 2 dmen in Pionk.

The issue with the teams dcore is Pionk. He's dragged down the second pairing for the last two years. Hopefully he's good to go this year because he'll be played big minutes no matter how he's performing.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Is Chisholm long term? Is he that good? I don’t think the Jets are convinced.

What are the Jets going to get for Dillon or his cap space? I don’t think the Jets need another forward. Another defenseman?Maybe a player better than Chisholm so that leaves him in the same place. Definitely not better than Dillon. So the Jets just take a step back so we can have a worse player for longer?

The crying over the spilt milk known as Kovacevic needs to stop. He got to play in the NHL because the Habs are the shits. That’s his role in the league. That’s why the waiver wire exists.

I can’t wait for training camp to start so people can get all excited again about good AHL players playing good against AHL players then be mad at Chevy because some cap strapped team picks one of these guys up to fill out their 13th forward. The whining over nothing waiver wire players gets to be over the top.

You seem to be completely missing the point. I AM NOT ADVOCATING TRADING DILLON.

I am advocating keeping Chisholm over 1 of Stanley or Capobianco.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I’d be curious to see the differences of opinion if Capo was a Jets draft choice and Chisholm was a signed UFA.

Good one.

How about the differences if Chisholm had been drafted much higher and Stan was a signed UFA? Or a waiver pickup?

 

[TS Quint]

You seem to be completely missing the point. I AM NOT ADVOCATING TRADING DILLON.

I am advocating keeping Chisholm over 1 of Stanley or Capobianco.

You put it out there for discussion as the “devil‘s advocate“:

”So, if Dillon can be moved for anything of value that has to be taken into consideration as well as the ~2.1 mil cap saving and the longer term value of keeping Chisholm.”

“Yes, no doubt - but Dillon is for 1 year only and Chisholm is long term. Also consider what we might get for Dillon.”

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You put it out there for discussion as the “devil‘s advocate“:

”So, if Dillon can be moved for anything of value that has to be taken into consideration as well as the ~2.1 mil cap saving and the longer term value of keeping Chisholm.”

“Yes, no doubt - but Dillon is for 1 year only and Chisholm is long term. Also consider what we might get for Dillon.”

Not really. I pointed out that it is not simply which one is a better player.

As it stands today, Dillon is a rental who will be gone in one year. That is a factor that makes it more important to retain Chisholm. It doesn't make it a matter of retaining Chisholm over Dillon THIS year. Chisholm does not make Dillon expendable. Dillon makes keeping Chisholm necessary.

Earlier in the off-season there was quite a bit of talk about trading Dillon for value. That was when a major retool appeared likely. Win Now is now the apparent plan. In Win Now mode, it would not make any sense to trade Dillon for futures at this time. But it still makes sense to keep Chisholm.