Decision Time Coming for Erik Gudbranson

[tantalum]

I'm not interested in arguing the validity of this, but I don't see what you see. I think Hutton either had a bad season or has flaws that were exposed this season with greater responsibility.

In terms of analytics Gudbranson's numbers obviously suck. There's no debating that. But at the time of the trade, there were Florida fans who told us that he was good alongside Campbell (who had no trouble moving the puck) and shored up Campbell's weakness in clearing the crease.

I wish there were stats to prove this, but your Weber comment makes me think of one thing. Is it "keying in" on Weber's (in)ability to move the puck or did players avoid Weber because he has the ability to crush you or completely rub you out along the boards. That's the old school thinking / eye test of a player that is hard to play against right?

Weber...there was an article where they specifically discussed the change in strategy in the Preds series to pressure Josi and force Weber to be the puck mover. This was considered as a series changing game plan.

They weren't scared of Weber because he hits people. They were needing to reduce the effectiveness of Josi and that pairing by forcing Weber to be the guy moving the puck. His possession retention was far below that of Josi.

Hutton...all I know is his play was better without Gudbranson. He certainly struggled and is reason #1 to not assume great growth by other young players just because they are more experienced. However, those struggles with increased responsibility, and I don't disagree, were exasperated by a Gudbranson instead of alleviated. And that is very much a result of poor pro-scouting IMO.

And you're right Campbell had no trouble moving the puck...he's been a superior puck mover for some time though last year he seemed to drink from the fountain of youth a bit.

 

[F A N]

Hutton...all I know is his play was better without Gudbranson.

Who was he better with? Tanev? Sure. That shouldn't be a surprise and shouldn't be a knock on Gudbranson.

 

[Verviticus]

Ya next time give a better comparison / example.

that you think the content of the example has anything to do with it is depressing

 

[opendoor]

Who was he better with? Tanev? Sure. That shouldn't be a surprise and shouldn't be a knock on Gudbranson.

He only played 90 minutes with Tanev all year. He was better with Tryamkin, Biega, and Edler too.

 

[F A N]

that you think the content of the example has anything to do with it is depressing

You know, this happens a lot of times in English. In your mind you have something you wanted to express and you think you expressed it in your writing. But a reader reading what you wrote has no idea what you're trying to convey or interpreted what you wrote based on what was written by applying standard rules of interpretation. Maybe you should work on your ability to express yourself in writing before taking issue with my responses to your posts.

He only played 90 minutes with Tanev all year. He was better with Tryamkin, Biega, and Edler too.

I don't think so. It's not like Hutton played more minutes with Edler than he did with Tanev and he only played with Biega slightly more than he did with Tanev.With Biega Hutton basically produced zero offense. I think you can argue that he was better with Tryamkin, especially defensively but how much of that is Tryamkin? Tryamkin was better with Biega and it's not like Hutton's produced more offensively with Tryamkin either.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Never fear guys, Guddy is here

 

[vanarchy]

I still wanna see a full year from him. What's the worst that could happen? Another top 5?

 

[vancityluongo]

At least Sbisa isn't a complete pylon, and at least he doesn't try to pretend he's a star when he isn't. If one non-Benning thing pissed me off this year more than anything else, it was the condescending comments from Sutter and Gudbranson toward teammates when those two guys were were playing like complete trash and far bigger problems than the guys they were criticizing. Entitled garbage players with no accountability from the organization or from themselves.

100%.

It's one thing to get some smug comments from a kid like McCann or some offputting one liner from a plug like Pedan. But these guys are actively promoted and shoved down our throats as the LEADERSHIP CORE/mentorpede.

After this Tryamkin situation to follow up on McCann/Virtanen, really gotta wonder if a cult of "character guys only" has formed in the dressing room. Would make sense for a John Weisbrod team given the comments he's made in the past. Would also be a much bigger problem because it means it wasn't just a pro-veteran Willie alienating the non-Horvat kids.

 

[Kickassguy]

Honestly, the worst thing about Tryamkin's departure wasn't even losing the player himself -- it's that it has essentially guaranteed Gudbranson's long-term future in Vancouver so long as Benning is at the helm.

 

[Nuckles]

It would only be fitting that Benning contradicts himself and hands Gudbranson a long-term deal now that Tryamkin is gone. I've said it all year, I expect a 5 year, $5M+ per year deal.

 

[Pavel96]

It would only be fitting that Benning contradicts himself and hands Gudbranson a long-term deal now that Tryamkin is gone. I've said it all year, I expect it a 5 year, $5M+ per year deal.

Oh yeah. It's appalling to think he'd get above his old contract but now he'll probably get a multi year deal, 5 mil a year. Absolutely insane that a guy who would have been our 6 dman but will be getting paid as our top pairing guy.

At that price, for what we paid to trade for him, and the fact that this will now happen because a better, younger, cheaper player walked to russia - makes this unbearable.

I hate this.

 

[F A N]

It would only be fitting that Benning contradicts himself and hands Gudbranson a long-term deal now that Tryamkin is gone. I've said it all year, I expect a 5 year, $5M+ per year deal.

Did Benning really say he would give Gudbranson a one year contract? The first time I heard of it was Gudbranson being asked that.

 

[Kickassguy]

Did Benning really say he would give Gudbranson a one year contract? The first time I heard of it was Gudbranson being asked that.

I can't remember where I saw it, but yeah, Benning did say "he'd like to" see Gudbranson back on a one year deal to start.

 

[Street Hawk]

I can't remember where I saw it, but yeah, Benning did say "he'd like to" see Gudbranson back on a one year deal to start.

Logic would dictate that to be the route to take. Canucks have to gamble on EG. They can get a feel about what EG's value is by picking up the phone right now and talk trade with other teams. If the return is only a 2nd round pick, that should give Canucks' management a clear indication of the price that EG can command on the open market.

They can easily look at the Scibsa contract to see how bad it was. 3rd pairing Dman at $3.6 million per.

They have to ask themselves this:

1) Where does EG rank in terms of RHD ice time? Is he behind Tanev and Stecher? I would say yes.
2) So, based on #1, how much is that worth? $3.5 million is what he made last year and it has been reported that he turned down a long term deal with FLA at $4.5 per season.
3) So, if he is behind Tanev and Stecher in ice time, how can you justify extending him at his price, which is higher than Tanev? Plus, despite being 3 years younger (1992 birth year vs 1989 birth year) than Tanev, I would confidently say that in 3 years, Tanev will be the more effective Dman because of EG's lack of mobility and puck skills given how the NHL game is changing from the LA Kings/Bruins style from 2011-2014 to the faster paced game of today.

No multi-year deal. See how he performs up to the ASG and go from there. If he plays decent enough and the phone rings at the TDL and you get a 1st round pick or something, you have to consider taking it.

Look at how teams are deploying their Dmen. Who is slow with limited puck skills? Polak fits that mold, but he's no where near EG's contract.

You have to get value for what you pay. They need to learn their lesson from Sutter, Scisba and Dorsett. Over spent on them by $2.5 million combined easily. Sutter should have been $3.75 max, Dorsett $2 million max and Pizza, $2.5 million max.

Can't be paying 3rd pairing guys greater than $2.5 million per. Makes no sense. EG is fine on the 3rd pair if he is at $2.5. At $4.5 million or more, no way.

 

[MS]

I think the whole 300 games thing is overblown. I think Gudbranson was trying to defend Hutton and say that until Hutton reaches 300 games there's still plenty of room for him to get better and he will get better. The 300 games thing is actually an old hockey adage.

I'm not talking about the specifics of the quote. I'm talking about the arrogance it talks to talk down to a teammate like that.

Gudbranson is talking like he's a guy who has 'figured it out' and is part of the solution while Hutton - who is only a year younger - is just a poor young sap who's hurting the team with his struggles right now but thank god he has a superior player like me to help him out.

This despite the fact that Hutton is a better player than Gudbranson and has been a more effective player than Gudbransob ever has when he hasn't been chained to his slow, talentless ass.

Both Sutter and Gudbranson are former top-10 picks who have spent their whole lives with people telling them how special and foundational they are, and they carry themselves like stars and big-time leaders here when they're both fringe bottom-end NHL players. It's nauseating. No accountability whatsoever.

At least Sbisa comes across like a humble guy who knows he has to improve and is trying his best to be a better player. He sucks, but I can actually like him as a person and cheer for him somewhat as a fan. Gudbranson and Sutter I never want to see in a Canuck jersey again.

 

[F A N]

I'm not talking about the specifics of the quote. I'm talking about the arrogance it talks to talk down to a teammate like that.

Gudbranson is talking like he's a guy who has 'figured it out' and is part of the solution while Hutton - who is only a year younger - is just a poor young sap who's hurting the team with his struggles right now but thank god he has a superior player like me to help him out.

This despite the fact that Hutton is a better player than Gudbranson and has been a more effective player than Gudbransob ever has when he hasn't been chained to his slow, talentless ass.

Both Sutter and Gudbranson are former top-10 picks who have spent their whole lives with people telling them how special and foundational they are, and they carry themselves like stars and big-time leaders here when they're both fringe bottom-end NHL players. It's nauseating. No accountability whatsoever.

At least Sbisa comes across like a humble guy who knows he has to improve and is trying his best to be a better player. He sucks, but I can actually like him as a person and cheer for him somewhat as a fan. Gudbranson and Sutter I never want to see in a Canuck jersey again.

Did you hear the way Hutton talks about Stecher? Hutton thinks he's the vet and leader and Stecher is the rookie who has to respect him. It's not about age, Gudbranson is the vet. He has like 4 more seasons and hundreds more games of experience. There is a difference between leadership and arrogance and it can come down to respect. I didn't hear too many complaints about Malhotra showing up and running workouts. Arrogance or leadership? Sutter isn't a former top 10 pick FYI.

 

[Street Hawk]

At least Sbisa comes across like a humble guy who knows he has to improve and is trying his best to be a better player. He sucks, but I can actually like him as a person and cheer for him somewhat as a fan. Gudbranson and Sutter I never want to see in a Canuck jersey again.

Wonder if Sutter's last name was Smith, would he be thought of in the same light.

Banning brought Sutter in as a #2 centre and extended him with that mindset at $4.375. Gave him a 35% pay increase. With 1 20 goal season and 1 40 point season under his belt.

He overvalued him for what he does. Sutter is a 3rd line centre. Jordan Staal is a #2, but that's not who Benning was getting.

He did the same thing with Gudbranson. Saw first hand that EG can't surpass Stecher in minutes so now it's time to figure out what to do.

You pay guys based on where they can slot in and perform up to. He's a 3rd pair guy whom you can't pay $5 million per season for. Just can't do it. Think the Rangers aren't regretting the Girardi and Staal contracts?

Benning has to seriously take a basic Economics course to learn what Sunk Costs means. Forget what you paid, just move on from it. Twins are signed by the old regime with NMC. Dealing them was possible, but would cost the franchise either retention or salary from overpaid players. But, you make your roster decisions for the best over benefit for the franchise.

Same with trades. Overpaid Scibsa. Forget his contract and play him according to his production. Same with EG. Forget the assets and money that he costs. Play him according to his skills/production.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Both Sutter and Gudbranson are former top-10 picks who have spent their whole lives with people telling them how special and foundational they are, and they carry themselves like stars and big-time leaders here when they're both fringe bottom-end NHL players. It's nauseating. No accountability whatsoever.

100% this.

 

[mossey3535]

I can't remember where I saw it, but yeah, Benning did say "he'd like to" see Gudbranson back on a one year deal to start.

He said it on 1040, but then said that after that he would look to sign Guds long term. He thinks it's a foregone conclusion Guds will have a bounce-back season.

I've been cheering for this player forever and I don't think he will. I mean it would be great if he finally lives up to his potential, but it's soooo improbable at this point. Right now it looks like he is what he is, and if we sign him to a long-term it's going to be a total albatross.

 

[Fatass]

He said it on 1040, but then said that after that he would look to sign Guds long term. He thinks it's a foregone conclusion Guds will have a bounce-back season.

I've been cheering for this player forever and I don't think he will. I mean it would be great if he finally lives up to his potential, but it's soooo improbable at this point. Right now it looks like he is what he is, and if we sign him to a long-term it's going to be a total albatross.

Guddy reminds me of Bryan Allen. We picked Allen fourth overall, and traded him (along with Bertuzzi) for Luongo. Allen was kind of a bigger, slower footed, crease clearer.

 

[mossey3535]

I think the thing that really soured me on Guds this year besides him totally sucking (behind the play, not hitting, not clearing the crease, not being able to make first passes) was the video where Marky dresses up in the T-Rex costume and he sarcastically said "Really, you come early to the rink for that?"

To me the whole "good in the room" was proven to be a myth right there.

Actually looking back on it, you can see that the room wasn't really together. No laughing, no actual reaction even.

EDIT If you watch the longer version you can see that all the young guys reacted really positively. Horvat reacts the way you'd expect the captain to react IMO.

 

[brokenhole]

Did you hear the way Hutton talks about Stecher? Hutton thinks he's the vet and leader and Stecher is the rookie who has to respect him. It's not about age, Gudbranson is the vet. He has like 4 more seasons and hundreds more games of experience. There is a difference between leadership and arrogance and it can come down to respect. I didn't hear too many complaints about Malhotra showing up and running workouts. Arrogance or leadership? Sutter isn't a former top 10 pick FYI.

Pretty sure Hutton was joking around when he said that, having a bit of fun.

 

[RobertKron]

Guddy reminds me of Bryan Allen. We picked Allen fourth overall, and traded him (along with Bertuzzi) for Luongo. Allen was kind of a bigger, slower footed, crease clearer.

Cool. Hopefully once they finish this time machine, they'll have a killer team for the late 90s/early 00s.

 

[Fatass]

Cool. Hopefully once they finish this time machine, they'll have a killer team for the late 90s/early 00s.

I hear you. The game is played at hyper-speed now. I know the goons are now gone. I wonder if the big bodied guys with slow feet are next? I miss Tryamkin's size and quick feet already

 

[racerjoe]

I hear you. The game is played at hyper-speed now. I know the goons are now gone. I wonder if the big bodied guys with slow feet are next? I miss Tryamkin's size and quick feet already

They have been dying out for a while now, the Hatchers from the league are all but gone. You need to be good at more than being a tough crease clearer that use to just clutch and grab.