Decision Time Coming for Erik Gudbranson

[Fatass]

Yeah, I'm sure he's a good person. Doesn't mean he's a good hockey player.

Do you think the game is just too fast now for guys who have skating issues?

 

[TheWolf*]

Yeah, I'm sure he's a good person. Doesn't mean he's a good hockey player.

Yeah, you're right. Literally nothing I saw of this player this year, leaves me excited to see what he bring next year.

I am hoping that TL/JB also recognize this an move him. They have an out with the development of Tryamkin......"well, we did not expect Tryamkin to be as good and ready to play as he was, and since he is, we thought we could move Gudbranson to help us in other areas."

 

[arttk]

Yeah, you're right. Literally nothing I saw of this player this year, leaves me excited to see what he bring next year.

I am hoping that TL/JB also recognize this an move him. They have an out with the development of Tryamkin......"well, we did not expect Tryamkin to be as good and ready to play as he was, and since he is, we thought we could move Gudbranson to help us in other areas."

They need to trade him now before other GMs realize he is crap. Guy is not good and the more he plays the more apparent it will be for others. At least now you can say oh he was injured for his play last season and play the rebuild card and say we want picks not players that will impede us from tanking.

 

[Pastor Of Muppets]

I would like to see what a 'healthy' Gudbranson can do next season...The whole team was tire fire early last season (no Edler or Tanev)....He brings much more than an Andrew Alberts,Hal Gill type player..IMO

I would like to see a better sample size than 30 games (injured throughout most of it) on a new team,with a coach that didn't have a clue.

 

[timw33]

I would like to see what a 'healthy' Gudbranson can do next season...The whole team was tire fire early last season (no Edler or Tanev)....He brings much more than an Andrew Alberts,Hal Gill type player..IMO

I would like to see a better sample size than 30 games (injured throughout most of it) on a new team,with a coach that didn't have a clue.

Andrew Alberts was just as effective a player, and cost between $1-1.5MM for just nice 15 minutes a night of third pairing time.

 

[F A N]

nobody thinks gudbranson has zero value, he just doesnt have much value at that price. bo horvat has plenty of value, but he wouldnt be a good asset at $13m a year

That's not even a fair comparison. Like I mentioned, the difference between the best possible arbitration results and his qualifying offer is a bit more than $500k. You think Bo Horvat's value changes if he makes slightly over $500K more a year?

 

[timw33]

That's not even a fair comparison. Like I mentioned, the difference between the best possible arbitration results and his qualifying offer is a bit more than $500k. You think Bo Horvat's value changes if he makes slightly over $500K more a year?

It sets a horrible precedent, just like the Dorsett, Sutter, and Sbisa contracts. You gotta grind out that $500k discount with marginal players.

 

[F A N]

It sets a horrible precedent, just like the Dorsett, Sutter, and Sbisa contracts. You gotta grind out that $500k discount with marginal players.

$500K is definitely a lot for marginal players, but I don't consider Gudbranson to be a marginal player and if the Canucks think that then that's fine, Gudbranson can accept the qualifying offer and become a UFA next season or if he thinks he's worth more then he can take the team to arbitration. That's my point. The Canucks don't have much in the way of options in terms of signing Gudbranson is concerned. The Canucks can try to sign Gudbranson to a deal before they even need to tender a qualifying offer, but it's going to be hard to sign him to less than a qualifying offer because Gudbranson can simply wait for that qualifying offer. The Canucks can also take him to arbitration without giving him a qualifying offer, but again, at most you get Gudbranson at $2.975M but the chances are it's going to be higher and if you can get Gudbranson to sign at the value of his qualifying offer or slightly less the Canucks are better off avoiding the trouble of arbitration.

 

[Regal]

My point is that you won't maximize his value because he'll be a bottom 6 defenseman. And bottom pairing don't return a 1st or a 2nd rounder.

You might be misunderstanding. I'm not suggesting we need to maximize his value by "showcasing" him next year, I'm suggesting we need to maximize his value by trading him at the right time. At this point people know who he is and what he brings. Him playing on the bottom pairing in what will no doubt continue to be spread out ice time among three pairings is not going to affect his value. Trying to trade him when teams have to protect him in the expansion draft and there's better players available will. Roman Polak got two seconds at the trade deadline not long ago, so I'm not too concerned about getting something decent. It doesn't have to be what we gave up, but it shouldn't be for pittance just to clear room. While teams are moving away from his style of play, I wouldn't underestimate the value these guys still hold to some organizations.

 

[Kryten]

It sets a horrible precedent, just like the Dorsett, Sutter, and Sbisa contracts. You gotta grind out that $500k discount with marginal players.

Take 600-700k off Markstrom
1.1m from Sbisa
800-900k from Sutter
600-900k from Dorsett
300-500k from Hutton

You would save more than enough to fit an overpaid Gudbranson if JB was better at negotiating. Instead we are going to be a badly balanced cap team thats rebuilding. Fun times

 

[ugghhh]

Do you think the game is just too fast now for guys who have skating issues?

It's not just the lack of mobility, but his lack of puck moving ability too. He doesn't read the play fast enough.

Early in the year when Hutton was struggling it's because teams were forcing Gudbranson to be the puckmover, and he just wasn't capable.

In today's NHL, if you have a weakness team's are going to focus on it all game long.

 

[tantalum]

It's not just the lack of mobility, but his lack of puck moving ability too. He doesn't read the play fast enough.

Early in the year when Hutton was struggling it's because teams were forcing Gudbranson to be the puckmover, and he just wasn't capable.

In today's NHL, if you have a weakness team's are going to focus on it all game long.

Yep. And it even works with the good players. The Sharks last year credit turning the Preds series in their favour in large part to them pressuring Josi and forcing Weber to move the puck. Good D-man still but he's not the puck mover Josi was and that pairing ended up having very little impact.

This was said by some as a likely outcome to a Gudbranson-Hutton pairing when the deal was made. The only thing it served to do was to put a sophomore D-man under greater pressure so that Hutton either gave the puck away or hastily cleared the zone or Gudbranson was forced to go off the glass and out. Either way the puck is coming right back at you. It shouldn't have been a surprise to anyone that the pairing ended up struggling and that a blueline that already struggled to move the puck got worse when they added a poorer puck mover to replace Hamhuis.

 

[F A N]

I seem to remember it was Hutton having trouble moving the puck out rather than Gudbranson at the beginning of the year, but the pairing was perhaps the best pairing to start the year when everyone was struggling. In reality it was a small sample size as Gudbranson was injured most of the time I think.

 

[tantalum]

I seem to remember it was Hutton having trouble moving the puck out rather than Gudbranson at the beginning of the year, but the pairing was perhaps the best pairing to start the year when everyone was struggling. In reality it was a small sample size as Gudbranson was injured most of the time I think.

Hard for a puck mover to move the puck when the opposition keys on him and takes his time and space away. Without going back to the tape so to speak I can't 100% say that's what happened but if I'm a NHL coach my game plan is going to involve making Gudbranson the guy that plays the puck and you do that by taking time and space from the other guy. And that is the game plan coaches make and Gudbranson is known to be at best a glass and out guy. So certainly Hutton had trouble moving the puck but does that same trouble happen if he has a partner that can do the same?

We can stop the injured thing I think unless he's been injured for the 400 NHL games. That is Gudbranson. He is bad at moving the puck so his team maintains possession. That is the player he is.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Yeah having the "Hutton is the puck-mover, Gudbranson is the stay-at-home guy" mentality requires understanding the game at a superficial, video-games-20-years-ago level.

 

[Fatass]

Yeah having the "Hutton is the puck-mover, Gudbranson is the stay-at-home guy" mentality requires understanding the game at a superficial, video-games-20-years-ago level.

Don't get me wrong; I like Guddy. But is the game so fast now, it's hard for the slow footed Dmen to be anything more than a 'get the puck out' kind of player?

 

[RobertKron]

Don't get me wrong; I like Guddy. But is the game so fast now, it's hard for the slow footed Dmen to be anything more than a 'get the puck out' kind of player?

That's more a problem for the slow-brained player that is also exacerbated by slow feet. Sbisa, for example, moves fine but thinks like a rock.

 

[RobertKron]

Yeah having the "Hutton is the puck-mover, Gudbranson is the stay-at-home guy" mentality requires understanding the game at a superficial, video-games-20-years-ago level.

On par with talking about having a designated crease-clearer.

 

[sting101]

It's not just the lack of mobility, but his lack of puck moving ability too. He doesn't read the play fast enough.

Early in the year when Hutton was struggling it's because teams were forcing Gudbranson to be the puckmover, and he just wasn't capable.

In today's NHL, if you have a weakness team's are going to focus on it all game long.

"He doesn't read the play fast enough" yes this is his biggest problem. It's why he can't transition the puck well under scrambles and pressure situations something Tanev is elite at.

Hutton struggled most the year and was a tire fire at the beginning. Hopefully it was just a sophomore slump because he needs to be way more reliable if he's going to solidify himself as a good top4. Tanev is the ideal partner to help Huton get over the hump and keep his confidence growing not Gudbranson who has too many deficiencies in his own game.

Teams adjusting and pressuring whoever to expose the partner is not a revelation. It isn't always met with success because a quick give and go around an over aggressive forechecker is a simple play to spring guys who become deadly on an odd man situation. It works if the partner is bad at making fairly simple transitional passes or the pairing fails to adjust which further highlights how important situation awareness is as the best skill of a defenceman.

So far this is why EG has been more of a 5 than a 4 his vision and passing moving up ice just hasn't been good enough to play more positive meaningful minutes. It's why it was a bad trade, EG just doesn't have the skill set worthy of a big financial commitment. Attaching a lot of value to a reputation as a tough guy to play against and a protector/fighter is regrettable without the requisite skills of a top performer in playing hockey.

 

[Petrichor]

Andrew Alberts was just as effective a player, and cost between $1-1.5MM for just nice 15 minutes a night of third pairing time.

The reality is that in a cap world, how "good" a player is, is directly related to how much we're paying him.

For $1.5 million, Gudbranson would be fine.

For $4 million, absolutely not.

 

[Petrichor]

You might be misunderstanding. I'm not suggesting we need to maximize his value by "showcasing" him next year, I'm suggesting we need to maximize his value by trading him at the right time. At this point people know who he is and what he brings. Him playing on the bottom pairing in what will no doubt continue to be spread out ice time among three pairings is not going to affect his value. Trying to trade him when teams have to protect him in the expansion draft and there's better players available will. Roman Polak got two seconds at the trade deadline not long ago, so I'm not too concerned about getting something decent. It doesn't have to be what we gave up, but it shouldn't be for pittance just to clear room. While teams are moving away from his style of play, I wouldn't underestimate the value these guys still hold to some organizations.

Agree to disagree then.

I rather feed ice time to the Edler-Stecher, and Hutton, Tryamkin or Tanev pairings during the rebuild. Best time to let the kids get 20 minutes a night and see what we really have in them, then to "try to build value" in Gudbranson, whom we already know is not very good. The next few years are critical to evaluating the young talent we have.

 

[Fatass]

That's more a problem for the slow-brained player that is also exacerbated by slow feet. Sbisa, for example, moves fine but thinks like a rock.

True enough. I agree Sbisa has some troubles thinking quickly. I wonder about Guddy though mostly with his feet and hands being slow. I am not too certain about his thinking the game too slowly. Haven't really seen enough of him to determine that yet.

 

[Petrichor]

True enough. I agree Sbisa has some troubles thinking quickly. I wonder about Guddy though mostly with his feet and hands being slow. I am not too certain about his thinking the game too slowly. Haven't really seen enough of him to determine that yet.

Gudbranson's played over 300 NHL games and has been in the league since 2011. I think we already know what type of player he is.

 

[Fatass]

Gudbranson's played over 300 NHL games and has been in the league since 2011. I think we already know what type of player he is.

He played in Florida, and led their team in minutes (more than Ekblad) during their 2016 playoffs. When he was traded both Luongo and Mitchell made WTF comments about him first being traded, and then about the poor return. It sounds like his teammates really missed him this season too. That's why I want to wait and see how he does the first 40 next season, before I state categorically he's too slow minded.

 

[Petrichor]

He played in Florida, and led their team in minutes (more than Ekblad) during their 2016 playoffs. When he was traded both Luongo and Mitchell made WTF comments about him first being traded, and then about the poor return. It sounds like his teammates really missed him this season too. That's why I want to wait and see how he does the first 40 next season, before I state categorically he's too slow minded.

You have to question why Florida traded him away in the first place. But Florida is known for their analytics approach, so let's look at that:

Despite playing on a team that won their division and had the best goals for percentage at even-strength, Gudbranson still posted the worst Corsi (46.7%) and Fenwick (46.1%) of his career.

In short, he wasn’t an integral part of Florida’s terrific season, which by the numbers were attributed to a high shooting percentage at even-strength and solid goaltending from the duo of Roberto Luongo and Al Montoya.

From: http://thehockeywriters.com/gudbranson-shares-similarities-to-sbisa/

So indeed, Florida sold high and then went out to free agency and got a better defenceman at the cost of caphit only.

Seems like Vancouver paid a premium, again.