LeBrun: DeBrincat will most likely be traded, agent has submitted list of preferred destinations

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FriendlyGhost92

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Yes you can. They are estimating a cap increase of 6m to possibly as much as 8m in the next 2 seasons after this with 8.75m being the minimum.

The league expect to exceed over $100m in the 2026 and 2027 era.

Players and teams are anxious to increase now that the escort from covid is repaid.

The economy is running crazy so it’s reasonably to expect a 6-8% per year increase.

They say this every year, then the cap never gets close to what people expect, lol.
I mean, you're both half right/half wrong here. The CBA caps an increase at 5% maximum annually, so you literally can't go 6-8% increase per year.

But they will absolutely see the maximum increase for the next 3-5 years while the cap catches up to revenue. League revenue hasn't stopped increasing. Since the 04-05 lockout it averages about a $200M+ increase annually. The cap has failed to rise with it due to the COVID debt, which will be paid off after this year.

As it stands right now, the cap is set at $83.5M, which adjusts to about $5.3B league revenue. The pre-season estimate for 22-23 was $5.7B, but Bettman said as recently as a month ago that it was around $6B. So even if you assume there's no revenue growth in 23-24, $6B revenue would mean the cap should be $93.75M.

With the max 5% increase that means it can only go up:

$87.675M in 24-25
$92.05M in 25-26

So yeah, revenue would have to decrease over the next 2 years in order for the league to not max out on cap increases. That ain't happening.

9c0d6780-76f8-477c-ada5-e1995574d978_text.gif
 

Evgeny Oliker

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I’m not sure I understand Debrincats position here. Why be so desperate for an 8 year deal? I mean he is only 25. If he wants a long-term deal he can still take a 4-5 year deal and then get another good deal as a UFA when he is 29 or 30. I mean the cap is not going to go down , it’s only going to go up.

I think he’s being very narrow-minded here.
 
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FriendlyGhost92

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I’m not sure I understand Debrincats position here. Why be so desperate for an 8 year deal? I mean he is only 25. If he wants a long-term deal he can still take a 4-5 year deal and then get another good deal as a UFA when he is 29 or 30. I mean the cap is not going to go down , it’s only going to go up.

I think he’s being very narrow-minded here.
Because if he takes 5 x $8.5M now rather than, say 8 x $8M, he's leaving $20M+ on the table with 400+ opportunities to get a career ending injury before his next contract.
 

Evgeny Oliker

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Because if he takes 5 x $8.5M now rather than, say 8 x $8M, he's leaving $20M+ on the table with 400+ opportunities to get a career ending injury before his next contract.
Yes and no.

Other way to look at it:
If he takes 5 years now at $8.5 , and plays well, he can get way more than that in 5 years.
 

Golden_Jet

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I mean, you're both half right/half wrong here. The CBA caps an increase at 5% maximum annually, so you literally can't go 6-8% increase per year.

But they will absolutely see the maximum increase for the next 3-5 years while the cap catches up to revenue. League revenue hasn't stopped increasing. Since the 04-05 lockout it averages about a $200M+ increase annually. The cap has failed to rise with it due to the COVID debt, which will be paid off after this year.

As it stands right now, the cap is set at $83.5M, which adjusts to about $5.3B league revenue. The pre-season estimate for 22-23 was $5.7B, but Bettman said as recently as a month ago that it was around $6B. So even if you assume there's no revenue growth in 23-24, $6B revenue would mean the cap should be $93.75M.

With the max 5% increase that means it can only go up:

$87.675M in 24-25
$92.05M in 25-26

So yeah, revenue would have to decrease over the next 2 years in order for the league to not max out on cap increases. That ain't happening.

9c0d6780-76f8-477c-ada5-e1995574d978_text.gif
I don’t believe there is a maximum 5% increase in cap. The 5% increase was the maximum for the PA inflator, not revenue based.
 

FriendlyGhost92

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Yes and no.

Other way to look at it:
If he takes 5 years now at $8.5 , and plays well, he can get way more than that in 5 years.
Or he could be Nathan Horton lol.

Most players are gonna take the money where they can get it. Granted, this year is a bad example because there really is no money.
 

The Devilish Buffoon

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The funniest thing in all of this is the almost complete lack of League interest in Debrincat.
Clearly not the case lol. Find one piece of reporting that supports that (you won’t)

Of the 5 teams Cat was willing to extend with, only 1 or 2 were able/interested. So yeah, sure, in that sense interest is limited. But to say that there wouldn’t be interest in him, point blank, is some green, watery bullshit, my friend
 

FriendlyGhost92

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I don’t believe there is a maximum 5% increase in cap. The 5% increase was the maximum for the PA inflator, not revenue based.
From an Athletic article last month:

"A memorandum of understanding in the current collective bargaining agreement dictates that the cap can only go up 5 percent in any one year,"
 

FriendlyGhost92

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The funniest thing in all of this is the almost complete lack of League interest in Debrincat.

I mean, it's more an indicator of the complete lack of cap space in the NHL right now.

Or did you not notice that nobody (Well, aside from Lou) was signing big, long term contracts this summer.

What are we a week into free agency now and Ryan Graves still has the longest term deal that isn't a re-sign?
 
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Big Muddy

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I mean, you're both half right/half wrong here. The CBA caps an increase at 5% maximum annually, so you literally can't go 6-8% increase per year.

But they will absolutely see the maximum increase for the next 3-5 years while the cap catches up to revenue. League revenue hasn't stopped increasing. Since the 04-05 lockout it averages about a $200M+ increase annually. The cap has failed to rise with it due to the COVID debt, which will be paid off after this year.

As it stands right now, the cap is set at $83.5M, which adjusts to about $5.3B league revenue. The pre-season estimate for 22-23 was $5.7B, but Bettman said as recently as a month ago that it was around $6B. So even if you assume there's no revenue growth in 23-24, $6B revenue would mean the cap should be $93.75M.

With the max 5% increase that means it can only go up:

$87.675M in 24-25
$92.05M in 25-26

So yeah, revenue would have to decrease over the next 2 years in order for the league to not max out on cap increases. That ain't happening.

9c0d6780-76f8-477c-ada5-e1995574d978_text.gif
Cap increases are connected to HRR (revenue). I believe they look at the previous year's revenue and then use a formula to calculate a mid point revenue projection for the next year or something along those lines. Therefore, projecting what the cap will be a few years down the road like its a predictable thing is a slippery slope. You never really know what will happen. If the Fed keeps raising interest rates and/or if inflation occurs, the economy or perhaps more specifically consumer spending will decrease. So who knows what will happen with attendance years from now. Lots of different ideas or theories about that which is another speculative topic.
 
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thefutures

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I mean, it's more an indicator of the complete lack of cap space in the NHL right now.

Or did you not notice that nobody (Well, aside from Lou) was signing big, long term contracts this summer.

What are we a week into free agency now and Ryan Graves still has the longest term deal that isn't a re-sign?
PLD?
 

thehoffs

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Jul 4, 2023
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I mean, you're both half right/half wrong here. The CBA caps an increase at 5% maximum annually, so you literally can't go 6-8% increase per year.

But they will absolutely see the maximum increase for the next 3-5 years while the cap catches up to revenue. League revenue hasn't stopped increasing. Since the 04-05 lockout it averages about a $200M+ increase annually. The cap has failed to rise with it due to the COVID debt, which will be paid off after this year.

As it stands right now, the cap is set at $83.5M, which adjusts to about $5.3B league revenue. The pre-season estimate for 22-23 was $5.7B, but Bettman said as recently as a month ago that it was around $6B. So even if you assume there's no revenue growth in 23-24, $6B revenue would mean the cap should be $93.75M.

With the max 5% increase that means it can only go up:

$87.675M in 24-25
$92.05M in 25-26

So yeah, revenue would have to decrease over the next 2 years in order for the league to not max out on cap increases. That ain't happening.

9c0d6780-76f8-477c-ada5-e1995574d978_text.gif
We will see a sizeable increase next year in the 6-8m area as teams have been waiting for the escrow balance to level out and have wanted it badly.

The 5% escalator people need to understand how this works though.

You may increase by 5% but in reality the entire 5% could go to increased escrow if the revenue increase truly isn’t there.

What this also means is you can see a 50% compounded increase in the cap in just 8 years.

So 83.50 can be 120 in an 8 year period. That 8 year period is important as it was specifically chosen by the NHLPA as the max contract length.

It goes to show that when a player signs for say 8m in 2023 and is taking 10% of the teams cap that when this contract ends it will only be 6-7% of the cap.

This is why players in the Initial cap era got hosed badly.

The problem now and it’s a huge problem Is GMs just aren’t thinking long term.

Debrincat at even 8m is going to consume close to 10% of your cap space. 10% for a player who is not the driving factor on the team.

When any player gets a contract above the 8.375m level it specifically means you must increase the number of ELCs or players making less than 1.5 on your team by at least 1 more player.

Ottawa in particular has done a very very good job at paying top line players in line with the 8.375m to 8.875m threshold.

That is right now what a top line player should make if you want a competitively balanced 4 line team.

GMs need to start placing slot values on specific positions on their roster which would then not require such crazy salary caps.

Second line players for instance you want to aim for 4.875m to 6.125m.

If GMs were to properly assign slot values for specific 1/2/3/4 line roles as well as Top 2/4/6 D men it would allow for a more balanced team.

Right now two teams specifically are moving towards this model.

Buffalo and Ottawa.

The idea is something like.

Forwards total: 62%
Defence total: 28%
Goaltender total: 10%

If you look at those budgets.

8.35m for starter and backup goalies. So 5-6m for a starter and 2.35-3.35 for your 1b or backup.

Defence 23.35m total. The second you give your top D man 8-10m it already makes a balanced cap almost impossible.

To make it work again your doing something like 9/7/5/5/2/2.

Even then this is 2m over and assumes you get your bottom pairing at just 2m a pop. Even finding 3/4 for 5M a pop is super challenging.

If done right you get 51.75m for forwards.

Now here’s the issue. You take just 2 players like McDavid/drai or Matthews/marner and quite literally it only works if you have teams being paid to take on your cap.

Right now a team like Edmonton would have just $31m to fill out the entire bottom 9 while paying for one more top line forward.

If you start looking at the slot models more and more you realize quickly GMs must force average players or fringe players to always play for less and less even if your salary cap is increasing by sizeable amounts.

What it means is paying 4 players on one team more than saying 8.375m a piece is going to result in the GM having to use less than desirable players for the Top D or will have to use a 3/4 line where at a minimum 4 players are on league minimum salaries.

People just need to consider slot values. Debrincat is a good player but a dollar above 8.375m is Just not ideal for a successful team.
 

jkutswings

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We will see a sizeable increase next year in the 6-8m area as teams have been waiting for the escrow balance to level out and have wanted it badly.

The 5% escalator people need to understand how this works though.

You may increase by 5% but in reality the entire 5% could go to increased escrow if the revenue increase truly isn’t there.

What this also means is you can see a 50% compounded increase in the cap in just 8 years.

So 83.50 can be 120 in an 8 year period. That 8 year period is important as it was specifically chosen by the NHLPA as the max contract length.

It goes to show that when a player signs for say 8m in 2023 and is taking 10% of the teams cap that when this contract ends it will only be 6-7% of the cap.

This is why players in the Initial cap era got hosed badly.

The problem now and it’s a huge problem Is GMs just aren’t thinking long term.

Debrincat at even 8m is going to consume close to 10% of your cap space. 10% for a player who is not the driving factor on the team.

When any player gets a contract above the 8.375m level it specifically means you must increase the number of ELCs or players making less than 1.5 on your team by at least 1 more player.

Ottawa in particular has done a very very good job at paying top line players in line with the 8.375m to 8.875m threshold.

That is right now what a top line player should make if you want a competitively balanced 4 line team.

GMs need to start placing slot values on specific positions on their roster which would then not require such crazy salary caps.

Second line players for instance you want to aim for 4.875m to 6.125m.

If GMs were to properly assign slot values for specific 1/2/3/4 line roles as well as Top 2/4/6 D men it would allow for a more balanced team.

Right now two teams specifically are moving towards this model.

Buffalo and Ottawa.

The idea is something like.

Forwards total: 62%
Defence total: 28%
Goaltender total: 10%

If you look at those budgets.

8.35m for starter and backup goalies. So 5-6m for a starter and 2.35-3.35 for your 1b or backup.

Defence 23.35m total. The second you give your top D man 8-10m it already makes a balanced cap almost impossible.

To make it work again your doing something like 9/7/5/5/2/2.

Even then this is 2m over and assumes you get your bottom pairing at just 2m a pop. Even finding 3/4 for 5M a pop is super challenging.

If done right you get 51.75m for forwards.

Now here’s the issue. You take just 2 players like McDavid/drai or Matthews/marner and quite literally it only works if you have teams being paid to take on your cap.

Right now a team like Edmonton would have just $31m to fill out the entire bottom 9 while paying for one more top line forward.

If you start looking at the slot models more and more you realize quickly GMs must force average players or fringe players to always play for less and less even if your salary cap is increasing by sizeable amounts.

What it means is paying 4 players on one team more than saying 8.375m a piece is going to result in the GM having to use less than desirable players for the Top D or will have to use a 3/4 line where at a minimum 4 players are on league minimum salaries.

People just need to consider slot values. Debrincat is a good player but a dollar above 8.375m is Just not ideal for a successful team.
You're not wrong. But you're also assuming everything goes according to Hoyle. Kids sometimes catch fire while still on an ELC. Good players sometimes get hurt, or special circumstances pop up that leads to a trade nobody expected.

I'm fine with your model as a guideline. But successfully thinking on the fly can be just as important as being responsibly prepared.
 

FriendlyGhost92

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Jun 22, 2023
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Cap increases are connected to HRR (revenue). I believe they look at the previous year's revenue and then use a formula to calculate a mid point revenue projection for the next year or something along those lines. Therefore, projecting what the cap will be a few years down the road like its a predictable thing is a slippery slope. You never really know what will happen. If the Fed keeps raising interest rates and/or if inflation occurs, the economy or perhaps more specifically consumer spending will decrease. So who knows what will happen with attendance years from now. Lots of different ideas or theories about that which is another speculative topic.
I mean, you can pretty easily go back to previous years, compare the cap to the revenue of the prior season, and it'll come out very close to 50% of the revenue divided by the number of teams in the league.

Is it exact to the very dollar? No. But it's also not several million dollars off. The cap is going up significantly for the next 3-5 years.
 

Golden_Jet

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Sep 21, 2005
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From an Athletic article last month:

"A memorandum of understanding in the current collective bargaining agreement dictates that the cap can only go up 5 percent in any one year,"
Oh thanks, forgot about the MOU change.
 
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SimonEdvinssonAtSix

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Nov 2, 2018
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Just getting home after a 9 day vacation. Can’t believe this isn’t done yet!

Do yourself a favor and forget about it. I'm too invested at this point and keep on checking the status only to be met with disappointment. Save yourself the headache and put it out of mind.
 

FunkySeeFunkyDoo

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Feb 3, 2009
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Do yourself a favor and forget about it. I'm too invested at this point and keep on checking the status only to be met with disappointment. Save yourself the headache and put it out of mind.
The bitter irony here is that he’s not *that* good a player. I mean, don’t get me wrong he’s talented and works pretty hard out there…. But he’s not going to turn a franchise around or anything like that.

In any event I’m taking your advice and switching my interest over to Erik Karlsson’s potential return to the Sens!
 

Go Wings

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Because if he takes 5 x $8.5M now rather than, say 8 x $8M, he's leaving $20M+ on the table with 400+ opportunities to get a career ending injury before his next contract.
Well if no team that he wanta to play for offers him that 8 year contract then it doesn't really matter now does it.
I doubt that Yzerman would give him an 8 year deal which is probably a big reason for a hold up in a deal to Detroit.
 

Saga of the Elk

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You just have to wonder what might have been if the Oilers, instead of drafting Puljujarvi and Benson, had gone with Tkachuk and DeBrincat, like McDavid probably suggested.
 

jkutswings

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The bitter irony here is that he’s not *that* good a player. I mean, don’t get me wrong he’s talented and works pretty hard out there…. But he’s not going to turn a franchise around or anything like that.
Which is fine. If he goes to Detroit he will be an important but not cornerstone player when all is said and done. The Wings' rebuild will succeed or fail largely due to what becomes of Seider, Raymond, Edvinsson, Kasper, and Cossa. So as long as Debrincat is a 30+ scorer for the next 5 years or longer, everybody wins.
 
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