LeBrun: DeBrincat will most likely be traded, agent has submitted list of preferred destinations

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I think that's about what they gave up. More or less. Don't think Sens will fetch the price they gave though.

Yes, we all know Dorion messed up (again!) with the trade. But, we're hoping to at least get some value. But it's still going to be an overall loss for us.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I agree with you and I don't think the other poster was implying that Kasper should be on the table.

The question he asked was important to the point he was making though. Given the option between the two packages, which would you rather give up if hypothetically you had to pick one of them? If you prefer to give up the Berggren package, one could conclude that you value Kasper more than that package.

Kasper + 2nd + 3rd is essentially what Ottawa gave up for DeBrincat last offseason.

And just because Ottawa made that mistake doesn’t mean Detroit should do the same.

The packages of Kubalik + Berggren + 1st + a 2nd is more than Ottawa paid, and trades 2 scoring wingers for 1. It should e a no.

Kasper + 2nd + 3rd is also a no because Kasper is tracking to be something between Ryan Kesler and Sean Coutourier.

My assumption is Dorion is probably demanding the same he paid for DeBrincat or more, which is what a lot of Ottawa fans here are also demanding. The problem that’s being ignored is that DeBrincat CHOSE his teams and Ottawa started this by NOT letting other teams negotiate with DeBrincat. All while being in a bad cap situation.

Look at the Fiala to LA trade. A mid/late 1st and a 2nd round prospect. DeBrincat is worth maybe a little less than Fiala.

 

[BondraTime]

I think that's about what they gave up. More or less. Don't think Sens will fetch the price they gave though.

They won’t fetch the price they gave up, again, a universally agreed upon fact.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

The lowest they can get him is 7.85M, so under 8M is splitting hairs. He's getting 8M give or take. We're talking about 150K less than 8M in the best of scenarios. Sens are already close to the cap. They can trade him with retention after July 1rst only. At that point chances are you trade him as a rental.

If you trade him you need someone to take his spot and teams trading for a rental will look to add to their roster and not substract key players.

This is not considering that the Sens will sit at approximately 3.5M over the cap if he comes back at 7.85M. so that means they need to trade someone and teams will see Ottawa coming from a mile away.

And again what happens if he gets injured. Do you take that risk?

This is not a good option. This is a last resort.

1. It’s 7.65m, and sure, it might be a bit over 8m. Not the point.
2. You are clearly misunderstanding what I’m saying, as I don’t think Debrincat will be at significant risk of injury immediately after his arbitration case is settled, which is when I would retain on and trade him.
3. Re: cap, your #s are off. We would also have a 2nd buyout window available.
4. Every team sees Ottawa coming from a mile away already. If a team wants and can add Debrincat at 6mil, and send back a few mil our way, they will make that trade and give value to do it.

All our options are last resorts. That’s where we are at. If we can’t trade him as a long term piece, trading him for assets as a discounted 1yr rental and filling out our roster as best we can with the remaining $ is all we are left with beyond going with a barebones roster and risking injury/losing Cat for nothing.

And just because Ottawa made that mistake doesn’t mean Detroit should do the same.

This is a good summation of what literally everyone agrees on and no one has debated or argued against whatsoever.

 

[RRhoads]

They won’t fetch the price they gave up, again, a universally agreed upon fact.

Then why are we even discussing those two players and Bos 1st?

Personally, I think Berggren and Bos 1st is fair.

 

[SpezDispenser]

We might not know what the exact situation is behind the scenes but we can all agree that it's not a good one based on the cold hard facts surrounding the situation.

- Debrincat has all the leverage here. If he gets traded he can pick and choose his destination based on his willingness to sign a contract.

- The Sens do not have enough cap space to bring him back and complete the roster for next year without making at least another trade to clear some cap.

- If he comes back, he's making approx 8M a year and needs to be traded by the deadline. How many contenders will have 8 M available to fit him in and what's the market for him at the deadline?

- The Sens are desperately trying to make the playoffs this year. Trading him at the deadline also becomes problematic because they'll need him if he's here or they'll need someone to replace him.

- If we go with the scenario that he comes back in Ottawa, what happens if he gets an injury that takes him out for the year? Sens lose him for nothing and we've seen a big injury with Norris just last season.

Honestly all the pressure is on Ottawa here. I'm a Sens fan and I hate to say it but the worst possible scenario has materialized. Not only is DBC not willing to re-sign but he also only wants to sign in select places, most of them are not interested in him or can't fit him. Not only that, but the cap situation for this season is not helping anyone. He had an average season for his standards which brings the price lower and we just saw 2 teams hammer each other in the finals, what do you give for a smaller winger? This mixture of Dorion lack of foresight, bad luck, DBC leverage, average production last season and etc is the perfect storm against the Sens.

I don't blame teams for playing hardball. There is virtually no market for Debrincat at this stage. A team will acquire a really really good young player for pennies on the dollar here. If I'm Yzerman I have no problem waiting until arbitration and telling Dorion listen this is the deal take it or leave it, it's probably the best deal you will have from this point on and risk only increases for Ottawa going forward. I'll sign DBC in free agency next year if I can and I move on with my roster for the year. If you don't then good luck making things fit for next season

I agree, it's hard to foresee a good resolution for this for Ottawa, but I still won't listen to some dickhead yacking on about how much drama there is. No one knows the ins and outs of what is transpiring here - unless it's a real insider - and even they don't really have a grasp.

Then why are we even discussing those two players and Bos 1st?

Personally, I think Berggren and Bos 1st is fair.

That's likely pretty close. Kubalik would have to be in there as well IMO - if we value him.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I think the Sens are left with a Trade Deadline deal. Their window of opportunity has passed this offseason.

 

[wingerdinger]

As a Detroit fan I'm perfectly happy skipping on this deal. DeBrincat's not a 30 goal scoring on Detroit and if he's not scoring what else value does he bring? He'd be our Kessel back in those TML days.

Don't bail Ottawa out for their misuse of assets.

 

[BondraTime]

Then why are we even discussing those two players and Bos 1st?

Personally, I think Berggren and Bos 1st is fair.

Because someone asked why Detroit was giving up more than Ottawa gave up in regards to a Kubalik, Berggren, Nos 1st package.

 

[dirtydanglez]

detroit shouldnt touch this without getting kane. unless debrincat comes cheapp.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

As a Detroit fan I'm perfectly happy skipping on this deal. DeBrincat's not a 30 goal scoring on Detroit and if he's not scoring what else value does he bring? He'd be our Kessel back in those TML days.

Don't bail Ottawa out for their misuse of assets.

This would be a huge issue in a two team league. If Detroit doesn’t want to trade for Debrincat, he will be dealt somewhere else. Very, very simple, and probably what will happen.

detroit shouldnt touch this without getting kane. unless debrincat comes cheapp.

lol

 

[redwings8831]

detroit shouldnt touch this without getting kane. unless debrincat comes cheapp.

34 year old Kane coming off hip surgery and potentially missing up to the first half of the season? No thanks.

 

[Wondercarrot]

The Wings can take their sweet time here, much the same way they can do it with AD next summer lol

There are going to be 2 options for Ottawa. (well 3 I guess since he could be an own rental)
1. Fiddle to make roster cap complaint and trade him with full retention at the deadline to maximize his value.
Way more teams will bid on when he costs almost nothing in cap space for a playoff run. Colorado would take him in a second. imo we get more value there than right now.
2. Ottawa trades AD for whoever offers the most as a 1 year rental before the season. It’ll be trash, but it doesn’t have to be detroits trash. Imo AD has a tough year - doesn’t seem like a guy who likes moving around etc, and more likely to have another so so year.

Another sub 30 goal season and AD would cost himself a lot of money. I think he’s a 30-40 goal guy but it’s not out of the question he doesn’t 30.

Personally I think he might be in DM for a bit of a surprise next summer - they want a Timo Meir like contract, but I’m not sure he even gets 7 yrs let alone 8, and I’m not sure the number starts with an 8.
I’ll place the total $ value of his next contact at just under $50 million.

 

[dirtydanglez]

34 year old Kane coming off hip surgery and potentially missing up to the first half of the season? No thanks.

if you want the most out of debrincat you'll get kane too.

 

[um]

Nice to see the Sens and Red Wings rivalry finally get going. Didn’t think DeBrincat would be the one to start it.

 

[SensFactor]

Berggren is a top 9 winger that will likely be top 6 next year. 50+ point potential.

Kubalik is a top 6 winger good for 20+ goals.

Boston’s 1st will be between 16 and 24 very likely. So Detroit sending 2 cheap, effective roster players AND a 1st? That’s a bad trade. That’s more than the Horvat trade at the deadline.

That is paying more than

There is no guarantee that Berggren becomes a top six, there is no history of that. Kubalik is a pending ufa that can walk in a year. Bostons first can also be 25 + easily and next year is a weaker draft than this year.

Debrincat is a bona-fide top 6 that has a history of 40 goal seasons and you are getting him signed long term. Sens are trading potential for experienced nhl top 6 here. The deal is more than fair.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Nice to see the Sens and Red Wings rivalry finally get going. Didn’t think DeBrincat would be the one to start it.

Eh, I don't see it to be honest.

 

[RRhoads]

Because someone asked why Detroit was giving up more than Ottawa gave up in regards to a Kubalik, Berggren, Nos 1st package.

Oh…
I think some people are overrating Berggren.

 

[norrisnick]

There is no guarantee that Berggren becomes a top six, there is no history of that. Kubalik is a pending ufa that can walk in a year. Bostons first can also be 25 + easily and next year is a weaker draft than this year.

Debrincat is a bona-fide top 6 that has a history of 40 goal seasons and you are getting him signed long term. Sens are trading potential for experienced nhl top 6 here. The deal is more than fair.

There is zero reason for any team to approach Dorian looking for a fair deal.

 

[SenatorsLegionary]

No one is questioning that the Senators gave up too much.

And just because Ottawa made that mistake doesn’t mean Detroit should do the same.

The packages of Kubalik + Berggren + 1st + a 2nd is more than Ottawa paid, and trades 2 scoring wingers for 1. It should e a no.

Kasper + 2nd + 3rd is also a no because Kasper is tracking to be something between Ryan Kesler and Sean Coutourier.

My assumption is Dorion is probably demanding the same he paid for DeBrincat or more, which is what a lot of Ottawa fans here are also demanding. The problem that’s being ignored is that DeBrincat CHOSE his teams and Ottawa started this by NOT letting other teams negotiate with DeBrincat. All while being in a bad cap situation.

Look at the Fiala to LA trade. A mid/late 1st and a 2nd round prospect. DeBrincat is worth maybe a little less than Fiala.

That's not the point I was making though, I think that most of us all share the same opinion that 1) Ottawa paid too much for DeBrincat last offseason and 2) just because Ottawa paid as much as they did, does not mean that Detroit has to give up the same value.

My post was strictly regarding the value of the Berggren package that was proposed a few pages back. It was being argued that the Berggren package would have Detroit paying more than what Ottawa paid and I was simply pointing out that it's not. Detroit fans will universally agree that Kasper straight up is a non-starter, let alone adding a 2nd and a 3rd to him. A reasonable conclusion from that would be that Kasper is worth more than the Berggren package which would mean that Ottawa paid more. Again, I'm speaking strictly about value, I'm not trying to say that Detroit should be offering up the Berggren package that was proposed.

The Berggren package can be an overpayment for DeBrincat while also being less than what Ottawa paid, both can be true as they aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[SensFactor]

There is zero reason for any team to approach Dorian looking for a fair deal.

What would be realistically fair if Dorion had more leverage would be Raymond for Debrincat straight up. This deal is favoured for Detroit. Sens get a pending UFA (Kubalik), Berggren who isn't even a wings top 3 prospect and a late first rounder.

 

[Sensinitis]

Nice to see the Sens and Red Wings rivalry finally get going. Didn’t think DeBrincat would be the one to start it.

Meh, the Wings would have to put up more of a fight on the ice for it to be considered a rivalry

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

There is no guarantee that Berggren becomes a top six, there is no history of that. Kubalik is a pending ufa that can walk in a year. Bostons first can also be 25 + easily and next year is a weaker draft than this year.

Debrincat is a bona-fide top 6 that has a history of 40 goal seasons and you are getting him signed long term. Sens are trading potential for experienced nhl top 6 here. The deal is more than fair.

And Ottawa is bent over a barrel if they want to replace Debrincat with Tarasenko. The whole reason why Debrincat is getting talked about going as cheaply as he is... Ottawa can't afford his contract if they don't make other moves and they'll struggle to do so next year as well. Of places Debrincat will allow a trade, only Detroit has the space to not require Ottawa to take something back.

It's all well and good that you're "dealing a top 6 for getting potential... but it's really about you're gonna lose a player for a drastically reduced price in a year and have to upend your team a bit to keep him before you lose him for little.

If you want to chase Tarasenko, you need to do this. Dorion screwed the pooch for you.

 

[BrawlFan]

I think people will be surprised at the deal in the end. It won’t be that bad.

Cat has leverage. To an extent. He doesn’t have a NMC.

Sens have leverage. Make him a pure rental. He can go to 30 teams. Retain 25% and most teams can take him on.

Wings have re-sign leverage.

People are just shitting on dorion but I think he comes out of this quite well. A roster top 9 and a 1st.

Hell maybe he trades him to Washington for Tom Wilson. I don’t care. I just think it’s laughable that people think dorion is f***ed lol.

He isn’t going to walk him to FA. Either he’s traded now or by the deadline. Deadline trades are quite good too. Check out the Horvat or ROR trade. Not too shabby. For worse players.

 

[Bileur]

Nice to see the Sens and Red Wings rivalry finally get going. Didn’t think DeBrincat would be the one to start it.

I thought it was Brady embarrassing the Detroit bench that did it.