Rumor: DeBoer possibly getting fired?

[RickyHP]

I couldn't find this could you or someone reply it what Karlsson has said about DeBoer.

I don't think anything has been said (my apologies)

In the game thread, there was a screenshot of twitter post, of someone who was at the game stating that Karlsson slammed the bench door (obviously pissed off ) when DeBoer took him off the ice in the last minute or so of the third. How accurate is this who knows. It wouldn't surprise me though. As fans, most of us were pissed off too.

I think this is what is being referred to.

 

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

This should be the most exciting Sharks team of all-time: A living legend in Thornton, a generational superstar in Karlsson, an all-time dynamic player/personality in Burns, a plethora of homegrown, star-level talent in Pavelski, Couture, Vlasic, Hertl, and Meier, skilled Euro imports like Suomela, Donskoi and Sorenson, a powerforward in Kane, etc.

Instead of enjoying this team, I am forced to scream and yell at the TV every time Pete "I have a law degree so I must be smart" Deboer sends Braun-Vlasic over the boards instead of Vlasicsson.

Deboer literally has a frontrunning Cup contender on his hands if he just chooses to play a potentially historically great defense pairing in ME Vlasic and Erik Karlsson and let the rest fall into place.

Instead, he has a small aneurysm, mumbles something about shutdown defense, and send Braun over the boards with Vlasic to watch them accomplish absolutely nothing of note.

 

[Levie]

This should be the most exciting Sharks team of all-time: A living legend in Thornton, a generational superstar in Karlsson, an all-time dynamic player/personality in Burns, a plethora of homegrown, star-level talent in Pavelski, Couture, Vlasic, Hertl, and Meier, skilled Euro imports like Suomela, Donskoi and Sorenson, a powerforward in Kane, etc.

Instead of enjoying this team, I am forced to scream and yell at the TV every time Pete "I have a law degree so I must be smart" Deboer sends Braun-Vlasic over the boards instead of Vlasicsson.

Deboer literally has a frontrunning Cup contender on his hands if he just chooses to play a potentially historically great defense pairing in ME Vlasic and Erik Karlsson and let the rest fall into place.

Instead, he has a small aneurysm, mumbles something about shutdown defense, and send Braun over the boards with Vlasic to watch them accomplish absolutely nothing of note.

Vlasic-Karlsson is not a good pairing. Vlasic plays bad.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Vlasic-Karlsson is not a good pairing. Vlasic plays bad.

Yeah that was pretty much entirely on Vlasic but I think it needed more time than it was given.

 

[The Nemesis]

Vlasic-Karlsson is not a good pairing. Vlasic plays bad.

The unfortunate issue is that it's hard to determine whether Vlasic/Karlsson was bad because they were ill-fitting as a pair, or because Vlasic's having a pretty horrible season regardless of who he's paired with. At the beginning of the year we all figured it was the former, but watching the previously-stable Vlasic/Braun flounder and flail and look awful makes a fairly compelling case for it being the latter.

The follow-up question is whether this is on deficiencies and cracks forming in Vlasic's defensive facade due to age/wear/contract-coasting, or if the "Marc-Edouard Orr" act we've joked about him putting on is actually causing him to sacrifice his defensive play in order to go out and pretend to be a swashbuckling offensive driver.

 

[Lebanezer]

I don't disagree with any of your points, but I just don't see it happening barring a significant losing streak or a stretch of 5-10 games where they fall flat on their face.

It's just not in Doug's DNA to make such a move.

One thing I am genuinely curious about is how the players would feel about it. In general, the guys seemed to love DeBoer his first couple seasons. I always thought this was due to how overly critical T-Mac was to the media with individuals and the team. DeBoer has generally speaking adopted a much more glass half-full approach. T-Mac was always the opposite and I think that rubbed the veteran guys the wrong way and got old quick.

The player's view of DeBoer obviously may have changed now that he's in his 4th season but I'd still be curious.

If you're going to make an in-season change in a season that is this imperative for the Sharks, you better be 100% sure it's going to be received well. I could see DW just viewing it as too big of a risk to take, basically doing a complete personality and system overhaul mid-season. Others of course would say riding it out with DeBoer is the risk but who knows what side of the aisle DW falls on. We'll find out sooner than later.

Doug is always looking to improve the roster via trades for difference makers or smaller pieces. One of his flaws is clearly sticking with coaches for too long. He should be just as aggressive about hiring a difference maker behind the bench. When those guys, like Quenneville, become available, you need to seriously assess the state of the team and not be afraid to make a coaching move. Now is not the time to be timid or complacent. Quenneville isn’t going to be available forever, Thornton may be done after this year, Karlsson may walk, etc. etc.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Vlasic-Braun really hasn’t been stable since the Stanley Cup Finals. It’s not something we’ve noticed as clearly because unlike scoring forwards, the majority of their effectiveness isn’t quantified by something as simple and easily researched as goals and assists.

 

[OrrNumber4]

I don't believe for second that Jumbo has a say in who he plays with. If he does then PDB has lost the room and should be gone. The days of the coach being in charge are not long gone. That is just not a reasonable assertion. Tell that to Tortorella, or any number of hard ass coaches currently in the NHL.

Back in the day, a conflict between a coach and a superstar player would result in that player being jettisoned into the nearest star system. Today, that coach would be gone before the day is over.

I am more curious about something you said in the other thread about teams needing to match their coaches on some level. Do you think this team as configured is a match for Quenville?

I don't know. Everyone talks about the Quenneville that led an incredibly talented Chicago team to three cups...I remember the coach who headed a star-studded Blues team into humiliation against the Sharks.

Often, we talk about coaches in terms of a team's identity. Darryl Sutter's teams are no-nonsense, defensively supreme, mentally very tough. Hitchcock's teams are defensively perfect and play cautiously. T-Mac's teams are great on the PP and dominate on the cycle; Mike Babcock's teams rely on pinpoint passing plays and a strong cycle game.

Does Quenneville really have that? That 2010 team basically just out-talented every other team...in fact, I've maintained that a more mature Sharks's team with better strategy and goaltending could have beaten that Chicago team. Perhaps you could argue his teams are all very well-balanced, with a lot of variability and players who can play up and down the lineup, but that is more of a function of him having a couple of solid, consistent, game-breaking players than actual implementation.

 

[Jaleel619]

I feel like a coaching change would give everybody a fresh start, and can have a new chapter with Erik Karlsson but this time with more knowledge how to play with him. I'm not overreacting to last night's loss but I think coach Q could make things a lot simpler in terms of getting our high powered offense going without trying to constantly lean towards the 95 devils defense.


DeBoer is by no means a bad coach, but its no secret he wants to rely on defense to win games, stylistically that doesn't match up with the superstar offensive d-men we have that can win us games.

 

[Anomie2029]

To put things into perspective, in mid-December of the 2015-16 season Mike Johnston was fired as the Penguins head coach despite a record of 15-10-3. The Pens went onto win the Cup with a new coach.

Sharks have a lower win % and similar point % with a 11-7-4 record.

Now is the time the Sharks need to pull the trigger and make the most of this roster. The team will not win with a coach who plays Braun for 25 minutes, persists with Melker Karlsson despite having 1 assist, scratches players like Ryan and Suomela despite good performances, breaks up performing lines for no reason other than to accommodate one player, and constantly says 'if we had a bit more effort we would have won'.

I'm all for players having accountability, but it is up to the coach to hold them to account, and he simply isn't doing that.

 

[Dicdonya]

The unfortunate issue is that it's hard to determine whether Vlasic/Karlsson was bad because they were ill-fitting as a pair, or because Vlasic's having a pretty horrible season regardless of who he's paired with. At the beginning of the year we all figured it was the former, but watching the previously-stable Vlasic/Braun flounder and flail and look awful makes a fairly compelling case for it being the latter.

The follow-up question is whether this is on deficiencies and cracks forming in Vlasic's defensive facade due to age/wear/contract-coasting, or if the "Marc-Edouard Orr" act we've joked about him putting on is actually causing him to sacrifice his defensive play in order to go out and pretend to be a swashbuckling offensive driver.

I am not absolving Vlasic of his own responsibility, however maybe it is substantially Deboer. Lets face it, Vlasic has quickly declined defensively under Deboer, and turned into the "Marc-Edouard Orr" we now see. In fact the only good year Vlassic has had under Deboer, defensively, was the first year, when Deboer's influence on the overall team was in its budding stages. Same might be true for Braun as well. I just have a hard time accepting that Vlasic dropped off a cliff, with no injuries, and his past style of gameplay that did not rely on physicality in any way.

He went from superstar defensive dman to anything but in like 2 years time, coinciding with a new coach, that forces his Dmen to be the offensive drivers a lot of the time. Seems a little too coincidental to me.

After last nights game though, and with what supposedly occurred with Karlsson, if that actually happened, it is past time for Deboer to be shitcanned. Not playing Karlsson in crunch time, when he is wanting and able to, is beyond stupid. Same for Burns. If Deboer's strategy was to shut down McDavid as best as possible last night by hard matching Vlassic/Braun to him, well his strategy failed miserably, just like most of his coaching seems to be this year.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Back in the day, a conflict between a coach and a superstar player would result in that player being jettisoned into the nearest star system. Today, that coach would be gone before the day is over.



I don't know. Everyone talks about the Quenneville that led an incredibly talented Chicago team to three cups...I remember the coach who headed a star-studded Blues team into humiliation against the Sharks.

Often, we talk about coaches in terms of a team's identity. Darryl Sutter's teams are no-nonsense, defensively supreme, mentally very tough. Hitchcock's teams are defensively perfect and play cautiously. T-Mac's teams are great on the PP and dominate on the cycle; Mike Babcock's teams rely on pinpoint passing plays and a strong cycle game.

Does Quenneville really have that? That 2010 team basically just out-talented every other team...in fact, I've maintained that a more mature Sharks's team with better strategy and goaltending could have beaten that Chicago team. Perhaps you could argue his teams are all very well-balanced, with a lot of variability and players who can play up and down the lineup, but that is more of a function of him having a couple of solid, consistent, game-breaking players than actual implementation.

This makes me think that a coaching change may not be all it's cracked up to be. I hate what PDB is doing as far as deployment but there is no guarantee another coach is going to use the players in a completely different way. I guess I just wish they played as tight defensively as they did against the Blues most games and see where the chips fall. That style of play can win a championship IMO. This odd man rush thing with next to zero physicality looks like pick up hockey.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I think one of the most glaring issues with this last game is the way PDB threw the players under the bus. That seems like a pretty quick way to lose the room especially when you're talking about this many veterans.

 

[ChubbChubby]

My guess based on nothing except DW tendencies: he wants Q but Q doesn't want to coach this year. You know DW kicks every tire and was probably the first person to call him when the news broke. DW probably knows Deboer is done but can't find a suitable replacement, and an interim coach before Q becomes available next season might do more harm than good, so we're going to be riding the Deboer suck train until Q changes his mind.

All speculation based on nothing of course.

 

[Negatively Positive]

My guess based on nothing except DW tendencies: he wants Q but Q doesn't want to coach this year. You know DW kicks every tire and was probably the first person to call him when the news broke. DW probably knows Deboer is done but can't find a suitable replacement, and an interim coach before Q becomes available next season might do more harm than good, so we're going to be riding the Deboer suck train until Q changes his mind.

All speculation based on nothing of course.

This is very likely. I doubt Hitchcock and Berube are the Oilers' and Blues' first choice but it takes two to tangle and Q just doesn't want to coach right now. We're gonna be stuck with Deboer for better or worse.

 

[NathanCouture]

Any thoughts on possibly getting Sullivan if he gets the axe in Pittsburgh?

 

[mooncalf]

I like Q, but if he doesn't want to coach, I'd still be looking to move on from Deboer regardless.

 

[hohosaregood]

Any thoughts on possibly getting Sullivan if he gets the axe in Pittsburgh?

I kinda think he's overrated. He did an impeccable job in 2016 but it doesn't feel like he's been particularly exceptional after that even if they won a 2nd cup in 2017.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Me: “DeBoer is so bad, just about any coach would be an upgrade. If coach Q isnt available, we could probably just replace him internally.”

Also me: “Roy f***ing Sommer is our internal replacement.”

 

[one2gamble]

I think the oilers game is Pete's come to Jesus moment. He's sighting the ship!

 

[sharski]

Alain Vigneault, come on down!

 

[Internazionale]

Alain Vigneault, come on down!

I'd rather promote Roy Sommer for the rest of the year and see how he does.

 

[Bleedred]

Me: “DeBoer is so bad, just about any coach would be an upgrade. If coach Q isnt available, we could probably just replace him internally.”

Also me: “Roy ****ing Sommer is our internal replacement.”

I can't stand DeBoer, never could. I didn't like him with the Devils either. He's too stubborn and seriously coaches insane sometimes, and his personnel decisions are always suspect. Always have been. I didn't like the hire from the beginning, because I knew him so well in New Jersey. I don't think that he makes the team better, I think it's just a good team.

Although, I'm hesitant to fire him because looking at all the firings this year, I think only Edmonton might have hired a better coach than they started the season out with. Willie Desjardins is one of the stupidest head coaches the league has seen this decade, the Hawks hired a real young guy to come up and replace Q. Not saying he's bad, but he's very inexperienced and we just don't know yet. Berube is a joke head coach, so St. Louis didn't get any better there.

I would totally fire him in favor of Quenneville though. It's gotta be a big name (that's actually GOOD! I don't mean a big name that people think is good like AV) or I'm afraid things just won't get much better and if they do, it will be the PDO starting to progress to where it should be and more pucks will just start hitting Jones.

 

[Bleedred]

Alain Vigneault, come on down!

No. He sucks. He's a big name because he had two long term jobs and was in the SCF twice and with each of those teams. Even PDB went to the SCF with two different teams. He's not a good head coach, at least not anymore. And besides, you need an elite (probably HOF goalie) goalie to do really good with him. We don't have one of those here. It will be like the reverse DeBoer. Instead of outshooting other teams every night, it might be the other teams starting to outshoot the Sharks. This team is also too slow for AV, who will try to implement a rush system where he'll try to get you 4 or 5 goals on 25 shots and then Jones will be facing 30+ shots a night. The offense might be better under him, as the scoring opportunities will be better than Perimeter Pete's, but the goals against will also be worse.

I'd rather promote Roy Sommer for the rest of the year and see how he does.

Sommer over AV? I would too, but that's about it.

I don't know, I'm very confident Sommer is a career AHL head coach. He's coached in the AHL for like decades now. I wonder if he's ever even been offered an NHL assistant coaching gig before? Or if he has been and he just likes being a head coach in the minors.

 

[Hinterland]

No. He sucks. He's a big name because he had two long term jobs and was in the SCF twice and with each of those teams. Even PDB went to the SCF with two different teams. He's not a good head coach, at least not anymore. And besides, you need an elite (probably HOF goalie) goalie to do really good with him. We don't have one of those here. It will be like the reverse DeBoer. Instead of outshooting other teams every night, it might be the other teams starting to outshoot the Sharks. This team is also too slow for AV, who will try to implement a rush system where he'll try to get you 4 or 5 goals on 25 shots and then Jones will be facing 30+ shots a night. The offense might be better under him, as the scoring opportunities will be better than Perimeter Pete's, but the goals against will also be worse.

Sommer over AV? I would too, but that's about it.

I don't know, I'm very confident Sommer is a career AHL head coach. He's coached in the AHL for like decades now. I wonder if he's ever even been offered an NHL assistant coaching gig before? Or if he has been and he just likes being a head coach in the minors.

I agree 100%. Probably not the most popular opinion either but I'd fire DeBoer right now to hire one of Quenneville, Sutter or Yeo. I know I'm oldschool but I'd have taken Hitchcock, too and I'm pretty confident that he's gonna make the Oilers a better team (okay okay, that's not very difficult). Probably not enough time to solve the Oilers if he doesn't stay beyond this season but I don't expect them to be quite the joke they used to be.