Rumor: DeBoer possibly getting fired?
- Thread starter DG93
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Beat writer for the Avs I think? Also, IIRC, TMac was hired instead of Q, so DW has definitely shown interest in Q before...and Q has won 3 cups since then and proven to be a very, very good coach. If DW is all in (EK trade indicates that he is), I could see him pull the trigger.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
I'm not going to put a lot of stock in this. Dater was once an Avs beat writer, but IIRC he's had a pretty nasty fall from grace, being suspended and fired from his newspaper gig for being a complete bell-end on twitter, and he has generally had a rep that painted him less like a respectable hockey journalist and more like a drunken barstool screaming fan with a press pass. Even now, it looks like he merely works for a crappy, low-rent, Denver-centric knockoff version of The Athletic
It doesn't take a genius to suggest that perhaps DeBoer is the easiest person to put in the firing line for the team's maddening start to the season, but that more or less means that Dater's no different than you or I in terms of suggesting this. It's not like it's out of the mouth of McKenzie/LeBrun/Dreger/Freidman/anyone else with a shred of respect and credibility as an information broker.
It doesn't take a genius to suggest that perhaps DeBoer is the easiest person to put in the firing line for the team's maddening start to the season, but that more or less means that Dater's no different than you or I in terms of suggesting this. It's not like it's out of the mouth of McKenzie/LeBrun/Dreger/Freidman/anyone else with a shred of respect and credibility as an information broker.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
Don't worry about it. Anything is worth discussing. And if nothing else maybe it can keep some of the DeBoer kvetching contained to a single thread instead of it oozing out and leeching into a half-dozen other threads. Besides, if there's any actual teeth to this rumor, maybe we see something sooner rather than later from a real news-breaker.
Or maybe Kurz just lectures everyone for being nerds in their parents basement watching the game play out on spreadsheets and not understanding things going down in the trenches where real hockey people "get" that coaching is hard and DeBoer is totally fine. Life's funny that way.
hohosaregood
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TomasHertlsRooster
Don’t say eye test when you mean points
Friendly reminder that the Sharks' best regular season, and their 2 best playoff runs all came in a season where their head coach was in their first full season with the team.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
It's hard to quantify how much of that was a "new coach bump" and how much of it was a confluence of other factors (health, career years, just the right mix of players and chemistry, puck luck, hiccups and speed-bumps for opponents, etc) that all conspired into a perfect storm for the Sharks.
That said it's also worth noting that Pete DeBoer seems to have developed a pattern in his coaching career, as I alluded to in the other DeBoer-centric thread:
Panthers:
Year 1: 93 points
Year 2: 77 points
Year 3: 72 points
Fired
In all3 seasons he missed the playoffs, finishing 3rd in the division once and 5th in the two subsequent years
Devils:
Year 1: 102 points (SCF berth, loss)
Year 2: 48 points (lockout year, 82 point pace)
Year 3: 88 points
Year 4: 31 points before being fired (72 point pace when he was fired)
In spite of the rebound in terms of points/record pace relative to the lockout year, the Devils sank 1 spot in the division in each of his 3 full years (4th, 5th, 6th) before he was canned (and to complete the path, the Devils would finish 7th in the Metro after replacing him with Lou Lamoriello in that last year)
Sharks:
Year 1: 98 points (SCF berth, loss)
Year 2: 99 points
year 3: 100 points
At first blush this breaks the pattern a fair amount. His point totals increase year over year, and the playoff results are SCF, 1st round loss, 2nd round loss. But the point increase is down to an increase in loser points, as the win totals remain relatively stagnant (46, 46, 45) and the playoffs were mostly different because they buzzsaw'd a weak Ducks squad before getting ousted by Vegas in 6 last season (vs losing in 6 to Edmonton in 2017's 1st round). FWIW this year, the team is on a 94-ish point pace through 20 games. Enough to win a pillowy-soft Pacific division, but only 8th best in the entire league and 4th best in the conference. Their playoffs path would seem to be a fair bit of good fortune at this point, as they would start out against a WC team (right now, Colorado) before most likely ending up with whoever comes out of the 2/3 matchup from the Central (which, allowing for some season-long standings-jockying, would probably be one of Nashville or Winnipeg). Given the way things are going at the moment, I don't think I'd be all that shocked by a 2nd round exit against a team that probably stands a better chance of getting their **** together than the Sharks do with the way they're playing. Especially since the Sharks are one of the only teams in a playoff position around the league that has a crap goal differential (right now a sterling even-money mark) that's not either got a massive horseshoe up their rears (the Rangers, Montreal) or benefiting from playing in a tire fire division (Vancouver, Calgary)
I'm not saying this is all DeBoer's fault, but it certainly historically looks like DeBoer is a Torts-type coach who gets the most out of his guys in the short run, then peters out (pun not intended, but gladly invoked) afterwards. And as I said in the other thread, when you look at the available fixes for a situation like the Sharks "fire the coach" is just about the only thing they can reasonably be expected to do right now given the state of the organizational depth chart and asset bank. I mean, other than "hide under some coats and hope that somehow everything will be alright."
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When I first read the title, My first thought was ''Where is the source of this rumor? Created by posters on here?'' since it's been talked about a lot recently.
I'm not sure if he's on the hot seat or not though.
I'm not sure if he's on the hot seat or not though.
If it means Spott goes with him it'll be worth it. PDB has been a great upgrade over TMac but he's not irreplaceable.
Spott is quite possibly the worst assistant coach in the NHL.
Spott is quite possibly the worst assistant coach in the NHL.
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Not sure how I feel about this. I don't hate PDB and I think most of system and coaching moves other than a couple personnel decisions are better than any previous Sharks coach. It still seems like better goaltending and player effort in the defensive zone are the culprit not the coach. Coach Q has a pretty great track record but with really stacked Chicago teams so maybe he's an upgrade? Is it better to get rid of PDB a little early to gain a known quantity better coach? Probably. I guess we'll see here shortly. This kind of play can't be allowed to continue. Not being able to maintain leads the way this team does is typically fatal.
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Think of Edmonton firing T-Mac and Doug pulling a Bob Murray and bringing him back after firing DeBoer. I think his family even still lives in San Jose.
I don't think Doug would do that, but that would be awful because T-Mac sucks and is just a real LOSER coach at this level.
I don't think Doug would do that, but that would be awful because T-Mac sucks and is just a real LOSER coach at this level.
OrrNumber4
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Totally agree that he normally does. But the Karlsson trade is a little out of character. He normally doesn't give up so much for a player he can't sign right away. I think there is a real sense of urgency this season and if the bipolar team play doesn't get right soon they could definitely make a change. Especially with someone like Coach Q available.
OrrNumber4
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Quennville is a solid coach, but for all the success he had in Chicago, remember the miserable failures he had in St. Louis and Colorado. He can succeed with the right roster, but there are coaches out there who could squeeze more juice from the fruit.
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His roster in St. Louis wasn’t great. He also got to Colorado when all that was leftover were scraps from their cup teams. No more Roy, no more Forsberg, Roy, only Sakic.
They made the playoffs two out of three years and the year they missed, they missed with 95 points and just barely didn’t make it. I never understood why they fired him, only to go back to Granato (who Quenneville replaced before that) for one disastrous year. They even won a playoff round right before they fired him and won a round in his first year there too. They got swept in round two by the team that wound up winning the cup that year in Detroit and Quenneville got sacked after that.
one2gamble
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If DW fires PDB right now or even before Christmas he has completely changed as a GM. I would be shocked.
WSS11
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Another poster said you don’t fire a coach when you’re leading your division. Well we are in the worst division. In 2015 Pittsburgh fired Johnston and hired Sullivan in early December with a record of 15-10-3. It’s not about where you are in the standings it’s about expectations and this team is too talented to be yielding these results. Fire Deboer and bring in Q
Fistfullofbeer
Moderator
Don't know much about Dater but I think it would be expected to see PDB in the hot seat with the inconsistent start we have had. We are still in 1st place in the division and I think that keeps PDB safe for now.
#OneAndDoneCoach
PDB was the coach of the Devils for that infamous 2012 brawl at puck drop with the Rangers. He got played big time last night by the opposing coach. So did Goodrow, but Pete had no business sending him out there for the opening drop.
Probably why Bobcock makes $6.25m/yr and Pete doesn't.
PDB was the coach of the Devils for that infamous 2012 brawl at puck drop with the Rangers. He got played big time last night by the opposing coach. So did Goodrow, but Pete had no business sending him out there for the opening drop.
Probably why Bobcock makes $6.25m/yr and Pete doesn't.
I posted this in another thread but it belongs here. With a few additions.
When the season started last year and the Sharks were dominating possession stats and couldn’t score goals, the team changed its system to try to add offense. It worked, at the expense of their defensive play and coverage. Then they acquired Kane and re-signed him, in the off-season they acquired Erik Karlsson, Timo Meier and Tomas Hertl evolved into bigger beasts, Joe Thornton is now healthy and playing pretty good, and they signed the Finnish league’s leading scorer from last year. With all that roster evolution wouldn’t you think that the coaching staff would re-evaluate the system and adjust accordingly? I once again doubt Deboer’s ability to evaluate his own players and their strengths, as well as how to thread them into his system. With the talent the Sharks have throughout the lineup they should not be bleeding high danger chances. A more conservative approach from defenseman not named Karlsson or Burns would be far more beneficial then prompting all 6 dmen to cheat for offense. The player who’s benefitting the least from the system is whichever goalie is in net. I highly doubt that the team’s play in the offensive zone would change at all with a tighter defensive system. I know it’s still early in the season, but we all saw a lot of the same issues last year with the new system. So if Deboer isn’t going to make adjustments, and I’d be surprised if he did, now is as good a time as any for him to move on. As many have pointed out, being at the top do the division or near the top doesn’t really make much of a difference when the team clearly isn’t playing well. Defensively they’re a joke right now. I’m all for moving on from Deboer. All the coaching stuff aside, he’s kind of a jerk.
When the season started last year and the Sharks were dominating possession stats and couldn’t score goals, the team changed its system to try to add offense. It worked, at the expense of their defensive play and coverage. Then they acquired Kane and re-signed him, in the off-season they acquired Erik Karlsson, Timo Meier and Tomas Hertl evolved into bigger beasts, Joe Thornton is now healthy and playing pretty good, and they signed the Finnish league’s leading scorer from last year. With all that roster evolution wouldn’t you think that the coaching staff would re-evaluate the system and adjust accordingly? I once again doubt Deboer’s ability to evaluate his own players and their strengths, as well as how to thread them into his system. With the talent the Sharks have throughout the lineup they should not be bleeding high danger chances. A more conservative approach from defenseman not named Karlsson or Burns would be far more beneficial then prompting all 6 dmen to cheat for offense. The player who’s benefitting the least from the system is whichever goalie is in net. I highly doubt that the team’s play in the offensive zone would change at all with a tighter defensive system. I know it’s still early in the season, but we all saw a lot of the same issues last year with the new system. So if Deboer isn’t going to make adjustments, and I’d be surprised if he did, now is as good a time as any for him to move on. As many have pointed out, being at the top do the division or near the top doesn’t really make much of a difference when the team clearly isn’t playing well. Defensively they’re a joke right now. I’m all for moving on from Deboer. All the coaching stuff aside, he’s kind of a jerk.
Crazy Joe Divola
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