Dear Michel Therrien,

[Andy]

Still concerned over this team's inability to defend. A sinking powerplay is starting to worry me as well.

The Canadiens have a knack for blowing leads. I feel like at any given moment, the Habs might "Toronto-it". They are getting favorable calls recently and have a lot of puck luck (including our goaltenders being saved repeatedly by their posts). Too many quality shots against + high team shooting % is a scary recipe.

I'm happy that the Habs are winning, but there are very few times this year where I didn't feel like a bandit who just got away with highway robbery after a game.

I'm just worried that puck luck will run out come playoff time and we'll get a repeat of last year.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Still concerned over this team's inability to defend. A sinking powerplay is starting to get concerning as well.

We're also not going to keep scoring at a rate of .333 on shooting percentage...

 

[CanadienShark]

I'd like to try this lineup for a couple of games before the playoffs:

Pacioretty - DD - Vanek
Galchenyuk - Pleks - Gallagher
Bournival - Eller - Gionta
Bourque - Briere - Prust

Tinordi - Subban
Markov - Weaver (Gorges)
Beaulieu - Emelin

See if we can get the young guys going.

 

[overlords]

We're also not going to keep scoring at a rate of .333 on shooting percentage...

we highlander'd the leafs when we beat them.

 

[Habstract]

Blame Therrien for everything but don't give him credit for anything ?! Those threads about Therrien are getting ridiculous!

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Blame Therrien for everything but don't give him credit for anything ?! Those threads about Therrien are getting ridiculous!

What should we give him credit for? The atrocious defense or the cratering offense?

 

[sheed36]

Still concerned over this team's inability to defend. A sinking powerplay is starting to get concerning as well.

The Canadiens have a knack for blowing leads. I feel like at any given moment, the Habs might "Toronto-it". They are getting favorable calls recently and have a lot of puck luck (including our goaltenders being saved repeatedly by their posts). Too many quality shots against + high team shooting % is a scary recipe.

I'm happy that the Habs are winning, but there are very few times this year where I didn't feel like a bandit who just got away with highway robbery after a game.

I'm just worried that puck luck will run out come playoff time and we'll get a repeat of last year.

It's been pretty much like this since Dec so the coaching staff has had plenty of time to adjust things to try and fix it but they haven't. This is what I have for the Habs PP by month this season.

Habs PP by Month
------------------------
Oct - 12/53 (22.6%)
Nov - 12/47 (25.5%)
Dec - 6/43 (14.0%)
Jan - 5/41 (12.2%)
Feb - 4/16 (25.0%)
Mar - 9/64 (14.1%)
Apr - 0/9

The Habs are 48/273 (17.6%) for the season on the PP but you can see they scored half of their 48 PP goals in the first 2 months on only 100 PP chances. Since Dec 1st though the PP has only gone 24 for 173 (13.9%) which would put their PP second last in the NHL percentage wise since then..

 

[Habstract]

What should we give him credit for? The atrocious defense or the cratering offense?

I agree that in the last few games, we were outshot pretty badly and they scored on few SOG... I was never a fan of MT but since Gorges injury and you could say Murray's suspension, the D have definitely been affected.

I am not agreeing with all of MT's decisions but this year, at least, he kept the offensive lines together for a longer period of time than what we've seen in the past...

The team is playing as a unit, good or bad for some nights.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I agree that in the last few games, we were outshot pretty badly and they scored on few SOG... I was never a fan of MT but since Gorges injury and you could say Murray's suspension, the D have definitely been affected.

Okay. But we had the option of Beaulieu. He's sitting in the pressbox and is infinitely better than Bouillion or Murray.

I am not agreeing with all of MT's decisions but this year, at least, he kept the offensive lines together for a longer period of time than what we've seen in the past...

The team is playing as a unit, good or bad for some nights.

Okay, he's kept the lines together... but they haven't worked. Our offense (which was great last year and the start of this season) has slowly sunk as we became a one line team. The D hasn't been good this year and we're getting outplayed most nights. The once invincible PP has become below average to poor...

Yes, we've won. But we're not playing well. And I don't see how we should be giving credit to a coach who's team is playing badly.

Subban's regressed, Galchenyuk hasn't gone to the next level, Eller's regressed, Beaulieu and Tinordi have been in and out of the lineup... its not like he's doing a great job with our kids either. Price has been phenomenal and MT has zero to do with that.

So why the hell should this guy get any credit for our record?

 

[hockeyfan2k11]

I agree that in the last few games, we were outshot pretty badly and they scored on few SOG... I was never a fan of MT but since Gorges injury and you could say Murray's suspension, the D have definitely been affected.

I am not agreeing with all of MT's decisions but this year, at least, he kept the offensive lines together for a longer period of time than what we've seen in the past...

The team is playing as a unit, good or bad for some nights.

D has been poop all year. The return of gorges will help but not by much. Don't forget weaver was josh's replacement and he has been better than him so let's not act like josh is this massive loss.

 

[overlords]

D has been poop all year. The return of gorges will help but not by much. Don't forget weaver was josh's replacement and he has been better than him so let's not act like josh is this massive loss.

Weaver has not been better than Gorges.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

What should we give him credit for? The atrocious defense or the cratering offense?

The cratering offense that has scored 48 goals in the past 12 games?

You guys sound ridiculous when you say things like that.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Weaver has not been better than Gorges.

Weaver is much better at creating offense. Much much much much better.

 

[overlords]

Weaver is much better at creating offense. Much much much much better.

Their career highs in points suggest otherwise. Is he better, probably? But nowhere near to the extent you're suggesting. And while weaver doesn't usually play weak opposition, Gorges always gets the hardest. He's one of the best in the league at limiting scoring chances against. Goal prevented = goal scored.

Also, I enjoy this little narrative that one has to be chosen, has been chosen, or will be chosen over the other. It's a faulty comparison, especially since they play different positions

The odd man/men out are bouillon/murray, two sub-nhl standard d who simply don't belong anymore.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The cratering offense that has scored 48 goals in the past 12 games?

You guys sound ridiculous when you say things like that.

Dude, in the last two games we've got 12 goals on 49 shots... Basically one out of every four shots went in.

That's great. Awesome. I hope it happens throughout the playoffs. But in both those games we were outshot two to one and were badly outplayed against Ottawa. We also saw Subban benched - AGAIN - while others make mistakes with no consequences. And the offense has cratered. From top ten to bottom third. Recent games make it look better than its been. But its been bad.

Our coach is ****. I don't care what the goal totals have been in the last couple of games. Every team goes through streaks where the puck goes in no matter what. But we haven't played well this year. Vanek is great and the offense WILL improve if for no other reason than he's in the lineup. But we aren't playing any better than we were before. And our coach sucks.

 

[Habstract]

Okay. But we had the option of Beaulieu. He's sitting in the pressbox and is infinitely better than Bouillion or Murray.

Okay, he's kept the lines together... but they haven't worked. Our offense (which was great last year and the start of this season) has slowly sunk as we became a one line team. The D hasn't been good this year and we're getting outplayed most nights. The once invincible PP has become below average to poor...

Yes, we've won. But we're not playing well. And I don't see how we should be giving credit to a coach who's team is playing badly.

Subban's regressed, Galchenyuk hasn't gone to the next level, Eller's regressed, Beaulieu and Tinordi have been in and out of the lineup... its not like he's doing a great job with our kids either. Price has been phenomenal and MT has zero to do with that.

So why the hell should this guy get any credit for our record?

I just told you. Our offence has been playing badly ? Ehhh, it's not false but it ain't true neither, the offense have been playing on this level since the end of the 2008-09 season.

The meaning behind my post was to point out the fact that I find it ridiculous how "fans" are relentlessly on MT's case. Is he the best coach? Hell no, but to blame him because Galchenyuk did not get to the next level....? It depends what were your expectations on the specific player(s). Maybe he (Galchenyuk) overachieved last season..? Maybe? I like to think that Galchenyuk was used in a good manner this season. He did not produce at the same rate he did last season but he played his regular PP shift and plays over 2 MPG more than last season. Why would you blame MT for Galchenyuk not going to the "next level" ? MT not to blame IMO

In Subban's case... It's not MT's fault when PK give the puck away. I agree that he is a very good offensive D, among the best in the NHL, no doubt. I agree that MT should let PK "expressed" himself on the ice and not to change his style of play but at the same time, it does not give PK Carte-Blanche as far as mistakes. I agree that if MT want to go the "player must be accountable" way, it should not only apply to Subban but all the players. On that note it's 50/50 between PK and MT IMO

Beaulieu over Bouillon ? For sure !!! I don't get that one. MT is to blame on that one.

With Eller, for 3/4 of the season, it was not really what I expected (offensively wise). He started really well and was playing over 18+ MPG and started struggling even though his ice time was not affected. However, again, did he regressed ? I don't believe so. Players have bad seasons and this is a bad one offensively. Eller is just having a bad season IMO.

 

[Habstract]

D has been poop all year. The return of gorges will help but not by much. Don't forget weaver was josh's replacement and he has been better than him so let's not act like josh is this massive loss.

I agree that the D did not have a great season and Price saved their ass on a regular basis. However, since Gorges' injury, the # of shots and goals allowed have increased significantly. I like what I see from Weaver and would not mind if he would return next season as 7th D

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I just told you. Our offence has been playing badly ? Ehhh, it's not false but it ain't true neither, the offense have been playing on this level since the end of the 2008-09 season.

No it hasn't.

The team scored well last year and into this season. Then our coach changed the lines and changed the system. Our offense plummeted. Last year we consistently outplayed our opponents for most of the year. This year its the opposite. At the start of this season our offense was doing just fine.

And this team's roster is a hell of a lot different than it was in 2009.

The meaning behind my post was to point out the fact that I find it ridiculous how "fans" are relentlessly on MT's case. Is he the best coach? Hell no, but to blame him because Galchenyuk did not get to the next level. It depends what were your expectations on the specific player(s). Maybe he (Galchenyuk) overachieved last season..? Maybe? I like to think that Galchenyuk was used in a good manner this season. He did not produce at the same rate he did last season but he played his regular PP shift and plays over 2 MPG more than last season. Why would you blame MT for Galchenyuk not going to the "next level" ? MT not to blame IMO

Do I "blame" him for Galchenyuk not getting to the next level? Partially, yes.

What's he done to get him to the next level? How about Eller? Has he done a good job with him? And PK Subban, how's he playing lately? Pretty much every player on this roster outside Price and Max have regressed this year. So why should we be praising the coach again?

As for being "on his case"... it wouldn't happen except this guy is hurting the development of good young players. THAT more than anything is cause for concern.

In Subban's case... It's not MT's fault when PK give the puck away. I agree that he is a very good offensive D, among the best in the NHL, no doubt. I agree that MT should let PK "expressed" himself on the ice and not to change his style of play but at the same time, it does not give PK Carte-Blanche as far as mistakes. I agree that if MT want to go the "player must be accountable" way, it should not only apply to Subban but all the players. On that note it's 50/50 between PK and MT IMO

Subban started this year better than he did last season. He was absolutely awesome and was THE best defenseman in the league.

And now he's suddenly forgotten how to play hockey? How does that happen? How does this guy suddenly start making all kinds of mistakes? Even ignoring the eyeball test, this guy's numbers up to this year were amazing. And he's gotten progressively better every season. And now he just suddenly doesn't know what he's doing?

MT is hurting this guy. He's put him on a leash. Changed the system. Called him out publicly. Benched him for mistakes (and sometimes for things that weren't his fault.) And all the while inferior players go on with zero accountability and play their regular shift.

Why is it surprising to you that he'd regress?

Beaulieu over Bouillon ? For sure !!! I don't get that one. MT is to blame on that one.

With Eller, the first 3/4 of the season was not really what I expected (offensively wise) and I believe he could have been used differently. He started really well and was playing over 18+ MPG and started struggling even though his ice time was not affected. However, again, did he regressed ? I don't believe so. Players have bad seasons and this is a bad one offensively. Eller is just having a bad season IMO.

Be honest. Do you think MT has helped Eller this season? Isn't that his job? Why hasn't he done it?

Reminds me of Al Pacino from GlenGarry GlenRoss

"Your job is to help us! Not **** us up!"

And that's pretty much what MT is doing. There's a reason he got fired from the Pens when he had a winning record. And there's a reason the same roster he couldn't win a cup with won one immediately after... he sucks at his job.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Dude, in the last two games we've got 12 goals on 49 shots... Basically one out of every four shots went in.

That's great. Awesome. I hope it happens throughout the playoffs. But in both those games we were outshot two to one and were badly outplayed against Ottawa. We also saw Subban benched - AGAIN - while others make mistakes with no consequences. And the offense has cratered. From top ten to bottom third. Recent games make it look better than its been. But its been bad.

Contrary to what micro stats people will let you believe, offense is the amount of goals you score not the amount of shots you get.

Besides, the score of the game has a huge impact on the amount of shots a team will attempt.

When the habs lead, they become very cautious and don't try very hard.

For example, the habs clearly just sat on their 3-0 lead all the way until the third. They were cautious and not doing anything. A bad start to the third period and then they went ahead and got goals when they needed them.

To me, this seems more like a team that is able to turn it on nearly at will over the past 12 games. On RDS, they showed a table of how much the habs lead in terms of minute since Vanek's joined and it's insane.. We either have the lead or are tied a majority of the time. There isn't as much incentive to bust your balls to get shots off when everything goes in so easily. MB kept saying on l'antichambre that playoffs hockey is different and things will tighten up. That will be the test for this offense and MT.

Our coach is ****. I don't care what the goal totals have been in the last couple of games. Every team goes through streaks where the puck goes in no matter what. But we haven't played well this year. Vanek is great and the offense WILL improve if for no other reason than he's in the lineup. But we aren't playing any better than we were before. And our coach sucks.

I'm not saying our coach is great, I'm not the biggest fan of Therrien but some of you guys are incapable of giving him any credit at all for anything. He clearly has some qualities. He clearly gets the team to show up and give effort which is more important than anything. The team shows passion and works hard, never gives up. They stick up for each other. There has been a culture change and I just loved seeing the guys stand up for each others in the Ottawa game.

As for Vanek, obviously, offense improved with him in the lineup. We didn't exactly have an elite NHL offense before he joined. That's not MT's fault.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Weaver is much better at creating offense. Much much much much better.

It's pretty much the same man. Weaver has 93 career pts in 599 games, Gorges has 97 through 557 games. For shutdown guys who will play defensive minutes it's irrelevant.

I don't see why it has to be Gorges vs. Weaver. I get that we want to clear cap space but there's nothing wrong with retaining both players, and I don't really get how Weaver makes Gorges expendable. The issue with our defense was never Gorges, the biggest problem this year has been Emelin.

Contrary to what micro stats people will let you believe, offense is the amount of goals you score not the amount of shots you get.

And the amount of shots you get heavily correlates with the amount of goals you score in the long term. This team has the forward talent to shoot its way out of trouble against crappy teams but it isn't a recipe for long term success and it puts heavy pressure on your goalie. This isn't magic voodoo and advanced calculus here, if you continually are outshot you need to have an above average SV% and SH% to win games. It's reasonable to expect that from Vanek, Pacioretty, and Price, but it leaves very little margin for error.

Did you not see what happened to the Leafs? We are not going to score on 40% or in last night's case 19% of shots going forward. It just doesn't happen, I don't care how good Vanek and Pacioretty are, that line isn't going to convert on a rate 7% higher than Sidney Crosby's.

For what it's worth when the game was close possession was pretty good last night vs. Detroit. It was a tire fire against Ottawa.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Contrary to what micro stats people will let you believe, offense is the amount of goals you score not the amount of shots you get.

Besides, the score of the game has a huge impact on the amount of shots a team will attempt.

When the habs lead, they become very cautious and don't try very hard.

For example, the habs clearly just sat on their 3-0 lead all the way until the third. They were cautious and not doing anything. A bad start to the third period and then they went ahead and got goals when they needed them.

To me, this seems more like a team that is able to turn it on nearly at will over the past 12 games.

Shots for and against aren't really microstats though are they? I mean come on... do you think we deserved to win against Ottawa?

Against the Wings... okay. But we still scored five goals on 26 shots. That's not brilliant coaching, that's puck luck.

I'm not saying our coach is great, I'm not the biggest fan of Therrien but some of you guys are incapable of giving him any credit at all for anything. He clearly has some qualities. He clearly gets the team to show up and give effort which is more important than anything. The team shows passion and works hard, never gives up. They stick up for each other. There has been a culture change and I just loved seeing the guys stand up for each others in the Ottawa game.

As for Vanek, obviously, offense improved with him in the lineup. We didn't exactly have an elite NHL offense before he joined.

What do you give him credit for? I would love to hear it.

Is Eller showing effort? Subban? Bourque? Briere? Galchenyuk? 'Cause this team doesn't look all that motivated to me.

 

[Habstract]

Well Guy, the only thing we can agree on is that we didn't like when MT called out PK in the media... That was just stupid. Benching him, I'm fine with that but as I said, it has to be fair.

As for Eller, what did you want MT to do in order to "help" him? It's the NHL not pee-wee hockey. Eller was getting 1st line TOI and was not producing and was playing more than DD. DD started producing when his TOI went up (Coincided with Eller getting less TOI)

There is only so many players that can play Top 6 minutes... MT could have placed Eller on the wing with Pleky? Maybe.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Shots for and against aren't really microstats though are they? I mean come on... do you think we deserved to win against Ottawa?

The theory from micro stats people is that shots generated = offense. Ability to generate shots dictate the ability to generate goals and show how much you have the puck. I think there are several flaws with that theory.

Against the Wings... okay. But we still scored five goals on 26 shots. That's not brilliant coaching, that's puck luck.

I'm not saying it's brilliant coaching I'm saying you're showing bias by saying the offense has cratered when it clearly has not. That's all I'm saying.

What do you give him credit for? I would love to hear it.

Is Eller showing effort? Subban? Bourque? Briere? Galchenyuk? 'Cause this team doesn't look all that motivated to me.

Alright, the team is 8th overall behind all of the powerhouse : blues, hawks, ducks, bruins, sharks, avs, pens.

None of the teams ahead of them have worse rosters, except maybe the avs but they have such an insane offense much better than ours.

I think it's silly to say that Therrien deserves no credit. I'm not in the dressing room and I don't know everything that he does to make the team perform. But it's been 2 years where the habs are in the top 10 overall. He's getting results. You can't just plug your ears and go lalalala.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Well Guy, the only thing we can agree on is that I didn't like when MT called out PK in the media... That was just stupid. Benching him, I'm fine with that but as I said, it has to be fair.

I know it seems like a long time ago... but do you remember how awesome that guy looked when this season started? How does he go from that to what we're seeing now?

Can you honestly say that our coach is getting the most out of him? Can you honestly say that a coaching change wouldn't help our best player out?

As for Eller, what did you want MT to do in order to "help" him? It's the NHL not pee-wee hockey. Eller was getting 1st line TOI and was not producing and was playing more than DD. DD started producing when his TOI went up (Coincided with Eller getting less TOI)

Are you seriously asking me this? Come on...

There is only so many players that can play Top 6 minutes... MT could have placed Eller on the wing with Pleky? Maybe.

How about distributing the offense more evenly? How about not changing the system to a stupid dump and chase? How about putting Galchenyuk with Max for some games and experimenting with that or Eller with Vanek to see if we can get him going? How about not breaking up the EGG line when we were scoring? How about playing Beaulieu and Tinordi more? How about benching Bouillion and Murray and keeping Bouilllion away from the PP when injuries mean he has to be in the lineup? How about not throwing players under the bus or playing favourites with inferior players? How about no set lines for a PP that has suddenly died?

Seriously... wtf has this guy done that's been good?

 

[Cole Caulifield]

It's pretty much the same man. Weaver has 93 career pts in 599 games, Gorges has 97 through 557 games. For shutdown guys who will play defensive minutes it's irrelevant.

I haven't watched Weaver his entire career.

But right now he has 7 pts in 14 games and is +11.

Pretty impressive stuff. He's been playing lights out. Perhaps he's just on a hot streak. But I must say he's shown me more than Gorges has in the last 2 years.

I don't see why it has to be Gorges vs. Weaver. I get that we want to clear cap space but there's nothing wrong with retaining both players, and I don't really get how Weaver makes Gorges expendable. The issue with our defense was never Gorges, the biggest problem this year has been Emelin.

I didn't say it had to be weaver over Gorges. It's just that someone said that losing Gorges hasn't been a big loss, I happen to agree. Weaver has been acquired because of the injury to Gorges and he's been stellar. He's played better than Gorges has all year IMO.

And the amount of shots you get heavily correlates with the amount of goals you score in the long term. This team has the forward talent to shoot its way out of trouble against crappy teams but it isn't a recipe for long term success and it puts heavy pressure on your goalie. This isn't magic voodoo and advanced calculus here, if you continually are outshot you need to have an above average SV% and SH% to win games. It's reasonable to expect that from Vanek, Pacioretty, and Price, but it leaves very little margin for error.

I think the amount of shots you generate depends on many factors. It's not simply X team has Y capacity at generating shots pitted against another team's Z capacity at preventing them making it 100% predictable. If you take a 3-0 lead early in a regular season game, chances are you're going to sit on your ass try to get 2 easy pts. This isn't the playoffs. Players and teams need to be able to coast a little at times to try and get easy wins. It's a long 82 games marathon where you have to manage your energy levels and health.

On RDS they showed a graph of how much the team has had the lead over the past X amount of games (I don't remember the specific numbers, perhaps someone remembers), and it was crazy how much we had the lead or at worse were tied. In those circumstances, there are less incentives to go all out and try generating shots/quality chances. It's normal that we don't try to shoot as much then.

Did you not see what happened to the Leafs? We are not going to score on 40% or in last night's case 19% of shots going forward. It just doesn't happen, I don't care how good Vanek and Pacioretty are, that line isn't going to convert on a rate 7% higher than Sidney Crosby's.

I think that the habs can generate more shots if they want. In any case, I'll reserve judgement for the playoffs. It will be much different then.

For what it's worth when the game was close possession was pretty good last night vs. Detroit. It was a tire fire against Ottawa.

Against Detroit, if you watched the game, you know that we just sat on our lead.

Against Ottawa, someone showed a graph that ottawa's shot attempts went through the roof after we tied it. I think the sens panicked a little at that point and sacrificed quality for volume. Not a good idea against Price.