Player Discussion David Quinn: Part IV

[TheDirtyH]

nvmd, just re-adding to ignore on this one.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Maybe those who said that were wrong?

It's the same thing many people always say about the drafts, this or that player is NHL ready or close to it, and pretty much unless they are elite level special prospects it turns out wrong.

If you are right, it is quite amazing how the Rangers have had the misfortune of picking non-nhl ready players at 1st and 2nd overall when that has rarely been the case the past 2 decades for whichever teams have picked at those positions. In back to back years no less and when everyone said these two guys were absolutely NHL ready. Something doesn't add up. I would disagree with you, IMO Lafreniere has been a more than capable NHLer, he just hasn't been 1st overall level.

 

[SA16]

It's a bit naive to think an NHL coach is just telling the players to go out there and play pond hockey with no structure whatsoever regardless of what it looks like from the outside.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Maybe those who said that were wrong?

It's the same thing many people always say about the drafts, this or that player is NHL ready or close to it, and pretty much unless they are elite level special prospects it turns out wrong.

If he wasn’t NHL ready then literally every hockey pundit who makes a living would need to be fired. From a physical stand point, from a mental stand point he had nothing to learn in juniors. He was/is 100% NHL ready. The problem is the coach.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

No one has described their system which is why I'm asking again. You did exactly what I said other people have done in the past by basically saying "THERES A SYSTEM! I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS BUT IT EXISTS!"

Again, I ask of you, what is their system? And no there is no holy grail, but this team isn't attacking with speed and numbers, they aren't trying to turn the NZ into a quagmire (f***ing Pierre), they aren't trying to wear down teams along the walls and grind out goals, they aren't playing the 6 goalie system, etc. I don't see anything that they're actively trying to do. This isn't really any different than last year either.

Also the PP had alot to do with their GF being what it was last year. The no shows haven't helped this year at all (mostly Zibanejad), but the Rangers were literally "go do the hockey and score on the PP" last year too.

I think the scary thing is just how much of their success in the 2nd half of last year was tied to Zibanejad. They certainly improved as a group as well, but it wasn't nearly as much as we thought but if there is a silver lining, it as brought to light issues that would have otherwise probably gone ignored.

They scored their first three goals off of the rush through the neutral zone last game! Was that an accident?? Did Quinn bench anyone for not dumping the goddam puck into the zone afterwards? Last year they would give up the neutral zone and blue line and play more passive defensively. This year that doesn't seem to be the case. Offensively, I'm not in practice but I'm also not egotistical enough to say for sure they DON'T HAVE A SYSTEM like you. But as far as I can tell their first option is to come into the zone with speed, possessing the puck and when they can't (smartly) they dump it in. They seem like they like to generate offensive behind the dots or off the walls- cycling, creating options for the guy with puck, keeping their spacing wide enough to keep defenders spread out so someone like Kakko or Panarin to beat their guy 1-on-1. Other lines play it more simple, crash the net, move it out to the point for a shot through traffic. Like every f***ing team in the league. They also have more set plays off the face off than most teams in the league. Is that enough for Mr. Bowman? Now, why don't you enlighten me with proof they don't play a system.

And PS, nice BS deflection of their success last year because it doesn't fit your misinformed horse shit theory on how the game of hockey is played.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It's a bit naive to think an NHL coach is just telling the players to go out there and play pond hockey with no structure whatsoever regardless of what it looks like from the outside.

Maybe, but thats exactly what it looks like from the outside.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Maybe, but thats exactly what it looks like from the outside.

Or maybe you're just wrong.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

By AAV or Cap Hit % Trouba's contract was 10th highest and 14th highest, respectively, when signed. Duncan Keith signed for 9.8% of the Hawks cap at 26. Trouba signed with us at the same percentage at 25. It's a 1D contract. It shouldn't have been. But it is.

I'm sorry, did you just quote the Duncan Keith cap-circumvention contract, which was so rigged the league instituted new rules to prevent future such deals, as evidence for the argument that Trouba's contract by definition indicates the team signed him to be a #1?

Because, uh, it pretty much does the opposite.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I'm sorry, did you just quote the Duncan Keith cap-circumvention contract, which was so rigged the league instituted new rules to prevent future such deals, as evidence for the argument that Trouba's contract by definition indicates the team signed him to be a #1?

Because, uh, it pretty much does the opposite.

Yeah lol I wasnt paying attention to the years on that one, forgot.


Otoh, did you use Karlsson and Josi (perennial norris contenders at time of signing) as examples as to why he wasnt signed to be a number 1?

Bc, uh, it really just shows that if he was signed as a #2, the rangers believed he was the best damn #2 in the league at that point. And then its just semantics.

 

[Trxjw]

If you are right, it is quite amazing how the Rangers have had the misfortune of picking non-nhl ready players at 1st and 2nd overall when that has rarely been the case the past 2 decades for whichever teams have picked at those positions. In back to back years no less and when everyone said these two guys were absolutely NHL ready. Something doesn't add up. I would disagree with you, IMO Lafreniere has been a more than capable NHLer, he just hasn't been 1st overall level.

I mean Laf also hadn't played hockey in 10 months leading up to the start of the season. So he missed his first pre-season, had a short first pro-camp, and was off the ice for a longer period than any 1st overall in recent memory. That's a pretty damn big asterisk to consider, IMO. That's before you even consider the general disarray surrounding the team this year with covid, Zib falling apart, Panarin going into exile, Tony losing his shit, and so on.

Kakko wouldn't be the first top European pick to struggle in the NHL. Barkov struggled. The Sedin twins struggled. Kotkaniemi struggled. Laine came out like a monster but he has generational shot and it's the type of skill that doesn't really require much adjustment when you compare rink sizes, style of play, and quality of competition. I think a lot of folks underestimate how difficult it is to make that jump as a teenage Euro. New game, better competition, huge pressure, and to top it off you're in a country you've never lived in before surrounded by total strangers.

 

[kovazub94]

Yeah lol I wasnt paying attention to the years on that one, forgot.


Otoh, did you use Karlsson and Josi (perennial norris contenders at time of signing) as examples as to why he wasnt signed to be a number 1?

Bc, uh, it really just shows that if he was signed as a #2, the rangers believed he was the best damn #2 in the league at that point. And then its just semantics.

Two things: 1. Let's say Trouba is here until '24 when his full NTC expires. We know that Fox will be paid (and I mean big $$) during this time. Who else on defense will have to get paid? Maybe Miller and that's it so the contract should not be prohibitive to roster building 2. Can you guarantee that any incoming RD will be better than Trouba to take his spot and / or make his contract redundant? Would it be a good bet?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

They scored their first three goals off of the rush through the neutral zone last game! Was that an accident?? Did Quinn bench anyone for not dumping the goddam puck into the zone afterwards? Last year they would give up the neutral zone and blue line and play more passive defensively. This year that doesn't seem to be the case. Offensively, I'm not in practice but I'm also not egotistical enough to say for sure they DON'T HAVE A SYSTEM like you. But as far as I can tell their first option is to come into the zone with speed, possessing the puck and when they can't (smartly) they dump it in. They seem like they like to generate offensive behind the dots or off the walls- cycling, creating options for the guy with puck, keeping their spacing wide enough to keep defenders spread out so someone like Kakko or Panarin to beat their guy 1-on-1. Other lines play it more simple, crash the net, move it out to the point for a shot through traffic. Like every f***ing team in the league. They also have more set plays off the face off than most teams in the league. Is that enough for Mr. Bowman? Now, why don't you enlighten me with proof they don't play a system.

And PS, nice BS deflection of their success last year because it doesn't fit your misinformed horse shit theory on how the game of hockey is played.

I know it sounds good, but almost all of this is wrong.

They still play super passive in the NZ. Our D's still leave a giant gap. Our forwards to a better job of tracking back and at least putting some pressure on the opposition, but we're still not a whole lot better here. The big changes have come in their DZ structure, they've made pretty big strides there. Strike 1.

"They like to carry the puck in with speed." Okay great, what do they do once they get it in with control? The bolded is NOT what they do and Im convinced you pulled this from google and pasted it and prayed that it fit (Hint:It doesn't.) Most of the time when a player carries it in it's either 1 v 3 or 2 v 5 and that rush gets snuffed out. Where is the rest of the help? If they do maintain possession its rimmed around the outside of the walls for a good bit before a shot from distance is either blocked or easily stopped, the other team gets possession and its over and out. Panarin is the only guy who is consistently creating offense off the walls. Buch too if he isn't rubbed out along the walls first. Kakko can control the puck pretty well, but hes not driving the middle of the ice with it to attempt to open up lanes for other people or to create his own opportunities. The other guys on our team don't really do this either. Strike 2.

Also, they aren't very good at controlled breakouts from their own end. This really took a hit when DeAngelo got 86'd. How many times have you seen our forwards basically bump into each other while trying to rush the puck up ice? The Gauthier goal the other night is one of the few times this year where they've had perfect controlled break out. It was Gorgeous, but it is also rare and it was also the Flyers, but it worked and was awesome.

I appreciate you taking the time to at least attempt to answer this so I'll stop there, its more than I've gotten from others.

 

[JohnC]

I both believe a) that Trouba’s contract was signed with the hopes the rising cap would scale it to a more normal level league-wide and b) that he was still paid too much for the defenseman that he is/was

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I know it sounds good, but almost all of this is wrong.

They still play super passive in the NZ. Our D's still leave a giant gap. Our forwards to a better job of tracking back and at least putting some pressure on the opposition, but we're still not a whole lot better here. The big changes have come in their DZ structure, they've made pretty big strides there. Strike 1.

"They like to carry the puck in with speed." Okay great, what do they do once they get it in with control? The bolded is NOT what they do and Im convinced you pulled this from google and pasted it and prayed that it fit (Hint:It doesn't.) Most of the time when a player carries it in it's either 1 v 3 or 2 v 5 and that rush gets snuffed out. Where is the rest of the help? If they do maintain possession its rimmed around the outside of the walls for a good bit before a shot from distance is either blocked or easily stopped, the other team gets possession and its over and out. Panarin is the only guy who is consistently creating offense off the walls. Buch too if he isn't rubbed out along the walls first. Kakko can control the puck pretty well, but hes not driving the middle of the ice with it to attempt to open up lanes for other people or to create his own opportunities. The other guys on our team don't really do this either. Strike 2.

Also, they aren't very good at controlled breakouts from their own end. This really took a hit when DeAngelo got 86'd. How many times have you seen our forwards basically bump into each other while trying to rush the puck up ice? The Gauthier goal the other night is one of the few times this year where they've had perfect controlled break out. It was Gorgeous, but it is also rare and it was also the Flyers, but it worked and was awesome.

I appreciate you taking the time to at least attempt to answer this so I'll stop there, its more than I've gotten from others.

Ok, jackass. I'm done with you. I really tried to take the time to explain to you what I saw from the team and their system but you're convinced you know better. Anytime you want to talk knowledge of the game or level of experience playing it, I'm game. Until then, google my nuts.

And the Gauthier goal wasn't a perfect breakout, it was because one of the Flyers left the zone because it was a delayed off-sides.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Ok, jackass. I'm done with you. I really tried to take the time to explain to you what I saw from the team and their system but you're convinced you know better. Anytime you want to talk knowledge of the game or level of experience playing it, I'm game. Until then, google my nuts.

I did

Image: not found.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I did

Image: not found.

Ask your parents to take the parental control off your Dell.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Ask your parents to take the parental control off your Dell.

I use a mac.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I use a mac.

Sorry, I'm still laughing from your brilliant 1v3 or 2v5 zone entry observation, like any coach in the world would implement a system built around that.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Sorry, I'm still laughing from your brilliant 1v3 or 2v5 zone entry observation, like any coach in the world would implement a system built around that.

Well it happens here so I don't know what to tell you lol.

The post you were telling me to read by @TheDirtyH which explained Quinn's system so well also captured that. I guess you missed that part eh?

 

[NYR]

It's a bit naive to think an NHL coach is just telling the players to go out there and play pond hockey with no structure whatsoever regardless of what it looks like from the outside.

I'd like to keep my blood pressure stable tonight so I won't be joining in here but..
It's also a bit naive to think that just because a coach tells the players to go out and execute plays xyz and that it will ever work.

I got news for you.
It hasn't worked in 3 years and it's not going to work anytime soon.

You may squeak by the regular season when your top 2 players are having career years then you get gifted a playoff spot but you're going to get bitch smacked come playoff time.

And that's just what happened.

Those are the straight up facts..

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Well it happens here so I don't know what to tell you lol.

The post you were telling me to read by @TheDirtyH which explained Quinn's system so well also captured that. I guess you missed that part eh?

My guy, you're babbling. What are you even talking about?

 

[Off Sides]

If you are right, it is quite amazing how the Rangers have had the misfortune of picking non-nhl ready players at 1st and 2nd overall when that has rarely been the case the past 2 decades for whichever teams have picked at those positions. In back to back years no less and when everyone said these two guys were absolutely NHL ready. Something doesn't add up. I would disagree with you, IMO Lafreniere has been a more than capable NHLer, he just hasn't been 1st overall level.

Was Hughes ready last year? Was Kakko?

They did not look ready to me, nor does Laff this year.

Laff basically wet his pants in OT last game and that was his most visible point in any of his last couple games. Maybe that is why he is not getting much PP time, because it would actually hurt his confidence to play there and fumble the puck every time he touches it?

How about the difference between what most would call borderline NHL talents in Blackwell, Rooney and such looking way better in their time on ice versus Laff? Is it possible we are seeing a difference in NHL readiness, or are we supposed to assume the talent level is similar?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

My guy, you're babbling. What are you even talking about?

You said this

I think @TheDirtyH did a brilliant job explaining it on the previous page. You should check it out.

He said this

We get up the ice with speed and control pretty frequently. We don't get up with numbers as often, and our forechecking is very weak. Is that a transition issue exactly?

Is it only Brilliant when he says it?

 

[DanielBrassard]

Ok, jackass. I'm done with you. I really tried to take the time to explain to you what I saw from the team and their system but you're convinced you know better. Anytime you want to talk knowledge of the game or level of experience playing it, I'm game. Until then, google my nuts.

And the Gauthier goal wasn't a perfect breakout, it was because one of the Flyers left the zone because it was a delayed off-sides.

Hilarious that you act all insulted and then start personally attacking @Uninstaaled when you don't even know what you are watching during the game. There was no delayed offside on the Gauthier goal, that was the Blackwell goal where the Flyers had to back off because they were offside.

You also still haven't explained a damn thing about the Rangers system, we are still waiting. Give us the entire breakdown of their offensive zone, forechecking/neutral zone and defensive zone formations please.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Hilarious that you act all insulted and then start personally attacking @Uninstaaled when you don't even know what you are watching during the game. There was no delayed offside on the Gauthier goal, that was the Blackwell goal where the Flyers had to back off because they were offside.

You also still haven't explained a damn thing about the Rangers system, we are still waiting. Give us the entire breakdown of their offensive zone, forechecking/neutral zone and defensive zone formations please.

Yes correct, it was Rooney. My bad. I'm done explaining to you titans of hockey knowledge. You know everything.