Player Discussion David Quinn: Part II

[SA16]

Losing the production of Vesey and Pionk definitely does hurt.

 

[McRanger]

Adding Panarin and Trouba isn't going to make you that much better if at the same time you lose the production of Zuccarello, Hayes, Shattenkirk, Pionk and Vesey.

Not that it really matters but why are you comparing the production of 2 incoming players to the production of 5 outgoing players? Shouldn't it be that group vs. something like Panarin, Lemieux, Trouba, Fox and Kakko? Being that Panarin is on pace to put up the same amount of points Zucc and Hayes did on their best years combined I don't really see a question about which group is better.

Anyway (on to the broader discussion) we have 1 more point through 25 games than we did last year and that is without having Zibanejad for half of it. We have an unquestionably better roster but considering the circumstances we also have gotten unquestionably better results. Optimists had us as a bubble playoff team and that's where we are. And Quinn is a part of that success.

 

[McRanger]

I thought that Quinn was an idiot? Has something changed?

By and large the young players are making progress, there is accountability and players seem to be improving play. Not much not to like. We all know that the clock on a coaching tenure starts the second a coach is hired but I think that Quinn will be here for a while. And may well be the coach who is in charge when the team gets back into the playoffs After that, we shall see. He may not be.

Oh, wait. I know. This mistake that Gorton did was not hiring a coach who did not get his first playoff series win until his 12th year of coaching. What a fool Gorton is.

I can't see who you're yelling at (I must have them blocked) but degrading Trotz to pump up Quinn is pretty stupid considering the hardware Trotz has accumulated the last few years and what he is currently doing with a wildly unimpressive Islanders roster.

 

[True Blue]

I can't see who you're yelling at (I must have them blocked) but degrading Trotz to pump up Quinn is pretty stupid considering the hardware Trotz has accumulated the last few years and what he is currently doing with a wildly unimpressive Islanders roster.

Context, my friend. I am not degrading Trotz at all and recognize him for what he is. But when people are screaming that about Gorton making such huge mistake by not going after him and referencing the work that he did in Nashville, how long it took for him to get a single playoff series needs to be mentioned.

That is not degrading him. That is an if=then statement. If you want to point to that, then how can you not take it into account?

 

[RangersFan1994]

B+ considering the lack of depth and youngest team in the league he is doing a very good job in his second year. to the people that complain about Quinn, what team do you coach and can you replace Quinn? he is not as bad as people make him out to be. will he get coach of the year doubt it unless the Rangers magically make the playoffs? Rangers are only 6 points behind the wildcard as of now which is pretty impressive for a rebuilding team although it is still early in December. maybe they will surprise and make the playoffs as a Wild Card seed on the last game of the year. anything can happen. players play hard for Quinn and that is nice to see.

 

[Chytilmania]

While I do think DQ has done some good things, I don't think it's been enough to outweigh some of the counter- productive things he's done.

The team was 12-8 going into Thanksgiving last year, add Trouba/ Panarin @$19.6M and they're 12-9 going into Thanksgiving this year.

Are they really all that much better, if at all?
What's improved?

The defense is disastrous.
DQ is a duck.

C- / D

Zibanajed out for a bunch of games, and I think we have more ROW already this year lol.
One thing that's different, we are better at holding leads, better at early/late goals in periods as well as actually have some fight and make come backs.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I've liked most of what he has done, my biggest problems include too many right shots on pp1 and maybe the 2nd is more of a management issue but he will use Staal when he comes back even though we are better without him.
People complain about Kakko on the 3rd line but I love it,he is a kid, shelter him until he is ready.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I've liked most of what he has done, my biggest problems include too many right shots on pp1 and maybe the 2nd is more of a management issue but he will use Staal when he comes back even though we are better without him.
People complain about Kakko on the 3rd line but I love it,he is a kid, shelter him until he is ready.

Don't disagree – but don't look now, he just got promoted to the right of Panarin and Strome...

 

[McRanger]

Context, my friend. I am not degrading Trotz at all and recognize him for what he is. But when people are screaming that about Gorton making such huge mistake by not going after him and referencing the work that he did in Nashville, how long it took for him to get a single playoff series needs to be mentioned.

That is not degrading him. That is an if=then statement. If you want to point to that, then how can you not take it into account?

I can only assume Nashville is being referenced due to questions about Trotz's ability to interact with and develop young players, not win playoff games. No one defending Trotz is going to have to reach back past him winning the cup to make a "he can win in the playoffs" argument.

Anyway it just seemed petty and weird. Pointing out we shouldn't have hired Trotz because it took him 12 years to win a playoff series is like saying we shouldn't have signed Panarin because he didn't make the NHL until he was almost 24. They're both certainly true but neither would have any place in sane arguments. The fairest argument I can see is that Trotz is the more successful (basically by default) coach and probably the better overall coach coach but Quinn is probably the better coach for our developing team, which is the only thing that matters.

 

[True Blue]

I can only assume Nashville is being referenced due to questions about Trotz's ability to interact with and develop young players, not win playoff games.

Nashville was used to show what he can do with young teams and the success that he had in rebuilding teams. It was pointed out that while Nashville was bad, it was not really a young team. And as thus should not be lauded as "Look at how well he develops young players".

No one defending Trotz is going to have to reach back past him winning the cup to make a "he can win in the playoffs" argument.

When touting a coach's success with a team that is building, you do not think how long it took to win in the playoffs is a pretty important aspect of success?

Anyway it just seemed petty and weird. Pointing out we shouldn't have hired Trotz because it took him 12 years to win a playoff series is like saying we shouldn't have signed Panarin because he didn't make the NHL until he was almost 24. They're both certainly true but neither would have any place in sane arguments. The fairest argument I can see is that Trotz is the more successful (basically by default) coach and probably the better overall coach coach but Quinn is probably the better coach for our developing team, which is the only thing that matters.

Again, when debating a "Gorton should have make all efforts to hire Trotz. Just look at what accomplished in Nashville" argument, bringing up how long it took to win something in the playoffs is fair game. This has nothing to do with Panarin. If you want to laud Trotz at the help of a very young team and what he accomplished, why would that be degrading him?

No one, certainly not me, is not debating whether or not Trotz is a good coach or that he has been successful. Whether or not he was the right coach for THIS Rangers team has been and continues to be a debate for whatever reason. As is the gnashng of teeth when people believe that Gorton made such a colossal mistake by targeting Quinn and not Trotz.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Don't disagree – but don't look now, he just got promoted to the right of Panarin and Strome...

Nice, hopefully he is ready for it, will help a ton.

 

[NYR]

That's being kind of deceptive. The wheels fell off around this time last year.

Defense is still bad. Still make 'out-of-touch' moves. But it is what it is. He's here to help lay the foundation of the future. Considering we're in a 'developmental period', he's doing his job. When players stop showing growth, it's an issue.

The defense is not just bad, it's been completely non-existent and if you describe player development as just kicking a player in the ass (which I'm not opposed to) to get them going then OK, he's developing players lol

 

[NYR]

Adding Panarin and Trouba isn't going to make you that much better if at the same time you lose the production of Zuccarello, Hayes, Shattenkirk, Pionk and Vesey.

I agree..My question is..What's improved?

 

[NYR]

Context, my friend. I am not degrading Trotz at all and recognize him for what he is. But when people are screaming that about Gorton making such huge mistake by not going after him and referencing the work that he did in Nashville, how long it took for him to get a single playoff series needs to be mentioned.

That is not degrading him. That is an if=then statement. If you want to point to that, then how can you not take it into account?

Context?? Laughable..
You wouldn't know context if it came up behind you and humped your leg lol.

This is just the tip of the iceberg on DQ..As if the other 1000 reasons I gave and you've danced around answering weren't enough..

It took months for him to get a single line combo together none the less have the team ready for a game.
He doesn't adjust to the game in front of him.
His roster decisions are a joke.
How many f***ing too many players on ice penalties can you take at this point in the season??
Ice time?
He puts lines out there way too long and they can hardly finish a game.
His PP was working then he switched and took players away from where they're most effective.
The PK sucks..You know why? It's because he's running the same exact bullshit as the regular non-existent D system.
He's every other vet coaches little bitch when it comes to match ups.
HIS SYSTEM IS f***ING DOG SHIT.

Do you even get any of that? Because I have yet to read one single quirk/ criticism from you when it's come to Mr Perfect.

If you did, you wouldn't continue to be so rah rah about what's going on but keep waving the pom poms.

Prove a point already..Like one..Anything? FFS..

I give up..SMH lol

 

[duhmetreE]

The defense is not just bad, it's been completely non-existent and if you describe player development as just kicking a player in the ass (which I'm not opposed to) to get them going then OK, he's developing players lol

That may be over simplifying things. Zibanejad, Buch, ADA, Strome etc have all played their best hockey under him. Chytil has shown tremendous growth... He's doing something right.

I'd like to see some better assistants.... If Quinn is involved in the micro sense of things, ( for better or worse ) for the macro we need something more fresh than Ruff.

 

[NYR]

That may be over simplifying things. Zibanejad, Buch, ADA, Strome etc have all played their best hockey under him. Chytil has shown tremendous growth... He's doing something right.

I'd like to see some better assistants.... If Quinn is involved in the micro sense of things, ( for better or worse ) for the macro we need something more fresh than Ruff.

Respectfully, Quinn hasn't developed any of them.
You want to give him credit for kicking them in the ass a bit?
OK..I'm good with that but as far as system and a bunch of other things that I've listed, they just aren't of NHL caliber IMO.
I don't see how new assistants change that.

 

[NYR]

I have one last thing to add before I leave this thread for my own sanity lol.

The kids on this team, even though young are all VERY capable of playing NHL caliber defense..No doubt in my mind.

Why aren't they??

 

[Edge]

Respectfully, Quinn hasn't developed any of them.
You want to give him credit for kicking them in the ass a bit?
OK..I'm good with that but as far as system and a bunch of other things that I've listed, they just aren't of NHL caliber IMO.
I don't see how new assistants change that.

I have to disagree to an extent here. Zibanejad has completely taken his game to a new level under Quinn, and ADA has gone from a guy trying to break-in with his third organization, to a guy who is on pace to score more points than any Rangers defenseman in 17 years.

I am not saying DQ turned water into wine, but I definitely think some credit is due to him.

 

[JHS]

I thought that Quinn was an idiot? Has something changed?

By and large the young players are making progress, there is accountability and players seem to be improving play. Not much not to like. We all know that the clock on a coaching tenure starts the second a coach is hired but I think that Quinn will be here for a while. And may well be the coach who is in charge when the team gets back into the playoffs After that, we shall see. He may not be.

Oh, wait. I know. This mistake that Gorton did was not hiring a coach who did not get his first playoff series win until his 12th year of coaching. What a fool Gorton is.

Nice to see you are still so obsessed with my point that’s you continue to argue with me even when I’m not actively participating in this thread. It’s really impressive...also you conviently left out the part about how this same coach that you think would not be better than your man Quinn is leading a team with mid level talent to a top record in the league this season, but yes looking back and cherry picking points to support your argument seems more valid.

Gave Quinn a D. I think he did a heck of a job while Z was out but this team is just far to inconsistent and Quinn’s far to quick to shake it up. For some reason tonight’s game vs Vegas is a perfect example. He has now shuffled all the lines up after the team seemed to find their footing in the previous few games and the roster is not responding and it’s clearly not working as a motivational tool. It’s reactionary and just flat out bad coaching.

The team is winning in spite of him not because of him.

 

[NYR]

I have to disagree to an extent here. Zibanejad has completely taken his game to a new level under Quinn, and ADA has gone from a guy trying to break-in with his third organization, to a guy who is on pace to score more points than any Rangers defenseman in 17 years.

I am not saying DQ turned water into wine, but I definitely think some credit is due to him.

I have no problems giving credit where due like I stated in my other post but ADA is on his last kick at the can then he's out of a job so how much credit should DQ get for reminding him of that?
Zibs breakout is 9 years in the making.
You want to give DQ the credit for that instead of him breaking free from OTT and being force fed minutes as if DQ had a choice?
Also OK and I don't have a problem with any of that.

It's the common sense stuff, the fundamentals that should be a given that bother me the most.

Post above that I can add to and take up the whole thread but just has a few things listed on it.

Why are we watching Panarin on the RS PP tonight?
I don't even have to explain that and you already know exactly what I'm talking about lol.

No reason for it..

 

[NYR]

Nice to see you are still so obsessed with my point that’s you continue to argue with me even when I’m not actively participating in this thread. It’s really impressive...also you conviently left out the part about how this same coach that you think would not be better than your man Quinn is leading a team with mid level talent to a top record in the league this season, but yes looking back and cherry picking points to support your argument seems more valid.

Gave Quinn a D. I think he did a heck of a job while Z was out but this team is just far to inconsistent and Quinn’s far to quick to shake it up. For some reason tonight’s game vs Vegas is a perfect example. He has now shuffled all the lines up after the team seemed to find their footing in the previous few games and the roster is not responding and it’s clearly not working as a motivational tool. It’s reactionary and just flat out bad coaching.

The team is winning in spite of him not because of him.

I will also echo that he did a decent job in getting the team to compete while Zib was out but other than that, it's still a D all day long lol.

 

[RGY]

The comments in this thread, the reasoning for why some gave Quinn a “D”, those in itself deserve a “D”. But then again they’re coming from “D” level posters.

This team works hard. They skate hard. There have been players who have improved under Quinn.

If you want to claim inconsistency, then it should be towards the team defense. The defensive structure, and lack there of, has been a complete mess for the last 3+ seasons. You know who the common denominator is? Lindy Ruff. The fundamental breakdowns that lead to high % scoring opportunities for the opposition has been consistent* during Ruff’s time here. The PK has been awful too.

If you fix this team’s defensive structure, especially in their own end, and you coach the 6-7 defensemen you have, this team could have 6-8 more points in the standings, which would make all the difference. Tonight was another night of egregious mistakes by the defensemen. That falls on Ruff, not Quinn.

What I find more amazing in all this is how someone can be given any grade when he had take over a team that was destined to tank and sell off pieces last season. And that was already after having sold off pieces the year prior to that one.

 

[Edge]

I have no problems giving credit where due like I stated in my other post but ADA is on his last kick at the can then he's out of a job so how much credit should DQ get for reminding him of that?
Zibs breakout is 9 years in the making.
You want to give DQ the credit for that instead of him breaking free from OTT and being force fed minutes as if DQ had a choice?
Also OK and I don't have a problem with any of that.

It's the common sense stuff, the fundamentals that should be a given that bother me the most.

Post above that I can add to and take up the whole thread but just has a few things listed on it.

Why are we watching Panarin on the RS PP tonight?
I don't even have to explain that and you already know exactly what I'm talking about lol.

No reason for it..

I don’t think it’s fair to have it both ways though.

It’s hard to look at a guy like Zibanejad, say it’s 9 years in the making, and then say it only happened because he wasn’t in Ottawa.

Ditto for DeAngelo. If it was as simple as reminding players they are potentially on their last shot, there’s a long list of careers that could’ve been salvaged by sticking a Post-It note to their lockers.

I’ve never been a fan of the approach where everything good happens in spite of the coach, and everything bad is a direct result of their incompetence. I think just about anyone, including the people who take that approach, would fail under those parameters.

 

[NYR]

The comments in this thread, the reasoning for why some gave Quinn a “D”, those in itself deserve a “D”. But then again they’re coming from “D” level posters.

This team works hard. They skate hard. There have been players who have improved under Quinn.

If you want to claim inconsistency, then it should be towards the team defense. The defensive structure, and lack there of, has been a complete mess for the last 3+ seasons. You know who the common denominator is? Lindy Ruff. The fundamental breakdowns that lead to high % scoring opportunities for the opposition has been consistent* during Ruff’s time here. The PK has been awful too.

If you fix this team’s defensive structure, especially in their own end, and you coach the 6-7 defensemen you have, this team could have 6-8 more points in the standings, which would make all the difference. Tonight was another night of egregious mistakes by the defensemen. That falls on Ruff, not Quinn.

What I find more amazing in all this is how someone can be given any grade when he had take over a team that was destined to tank and sell off pieces last season. And that was already after having sold off pieces the year prior to that one.

You kidding me with this? Lol

Is it us D level posters or is it just your D level aptitude?

Ruff is far from perfect and should probably should go but this is DQ's system, not Ruffs.

Know the difference.

 

[RGY]

You kidding me with this? Lol

Is it us D level posters or is it just your D level aptitude?

Ruff is far from perfect and should probably should go but this is DQ's system, not Ruffs.

Know the difference.

Hmm. Pretty sure I just clearly laid out for you the road that leads back to Ruff being the problem, considering the same problems have existed under both AV and DQ when it comes to defensive play in our own end. Not to mention Brady Skjei stagnating, if anything regressing during Ruff’s time here.

But you know what, i should concede to the poster that constantly gets into disagreements with everyone here. Everyone else is wrong, not you. We get it.