Player Discussion David Pastrnak VII

[Mr. Make-Believe]

...

For those arguing for $6M/yr... What happens if that's a no-go? Do you trade Pasta?

Say it would take Krejci's cap number to get him signed... Are you dreaming of draft picks? What's your plan?

All this talk about other players' contracts and when they signed and numbers and all that is good conjecture. But what is David Pastrnak worth to the Boston Bruins in your mind? At what point do you cut ties? Because in the end, that's all that really matters.

 

[riverhawkey91]

Marchand's contract can be a negotiation point I suppose, but there's no reason why that should be a firm holding point.

Riverhawkey also made a very good point. MArchand is an absolute bargain right now, but he's going into his first year of the deal as a 29 year old. That's not old by any means, but that contract might drop off around year 5-6. Pasta is 21. Even if he gets 8 years, he'll be 29 by the END of it. He's going to get better every year for another 2-4 years and then he'll be in his prime for the remainder. You're getting all prime years from him whereas you're most likely getting 3-4 out of Marchand's.

Marchand's contract in terms of salary:

17/18: $8M ($4M singing bonus)
18/19: $8M ($3M signing bonus)
19/20: $7.5M ($4M signing bonus)
20/21: $5M ($1M signing bonus)
21/22: $6.5M ($4M signing bonus)
22/23: $5M ($3M signing bonus)
23/24: $5M ($2M signing bonus)
24/25: $4M ($3M signing bonus)

Really anyone should be able to look at that deal and see why the AAV isn't at all comparable to anything Pastrnak is likely looking at.

I posted this yesterday on the old thread after looking at Cam Fowler's deal, but now that I just noticed Marchand's is sort of along the same lines, I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being how they approach Pastrnak's deal:

17/18: $7.5M
18/19: $7.5M
19/20: $7.5M
20/21: $4.0M ($3M signing bonus)
21/22: $7.5M
22/23: $4.0M ($3M signing bonus)
23/24: $7.5M
24/25: $7.5M

Overall: $53M/8Y = $6.625M cap hit

Pay him a slightly higher salary than he'd normally be looking at as a form of lockout protection, which also serves to knock down the overall cap hit.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Can't believe we're still on this "Pastrnak shouldn't make more than Marchand" thing.

Marchand will be 37 when his deal ends; Pastrnak won't even be 30. Marchand's salary literally halves between now and then -- you don't even have to be good at math to know what effect that would have on his cap hit. That's something that just isn't going to happen with Pastrnak.

Barring maybe the most sweetheart, undervalued deal in history, the Bruins are not getting Pastrnak in for below Marchard, and Marchand really has no right to be mad about that fact. Now if they give Pastrnak a matching (or more) $8M salary...then he can complain. But for the cap hit? No way.

You can see the exact same thing when comparing Krejci and Bergeron's contracts as well.

you keep arguing this agenda you believe in {and you probably are right to believe in it} that young players should be paid more than old players

but nhl is an entertainment business run by old boys club and dealing with a union

I'm sorry... but your own agenda that the young should rule has very very very very very little to do with the reality of the NHL

in entertainment business... once a name has become ESTABLISHED its worth more. look at movies/or singing/or magic or any form of entertainment... the name on the marquee means something

old boys club... are always more comfortable with what they know then some new fangled idea.

and unions will always protect the members that have paid the dues and worked themselves up into leadership positions

so... I feel for you... your argument that young players will produce more than old players actually makes sense.. but your argument that young players will be paid according to this production while you ignore the reality of it being an entertainment business that's unionized and run by the old boys network is just DOOMED to frustrate and confuse you.

again... not saying you are wrong that young guy play good hockey... or that young unknown actors might star in a movie or a young fresh music band might have a great debut albulm and a hot concert series... I'm just saying that established big name entertainers always get the bigger money

 

[DKH]

I know people are tired of hearing how Chia f****d team and now to a some extent the NHL RFA salary structure but its true. He simply has a history of conferring super-star deals to players who are not and should not have the leverage to bargain such a deal.

Draisaitl is the latest example and now the Bruins are in a spot. It will be interesting to see how the Bruins respond. I am not sure it will end well, again...

Well when you go by badkarma

If the Bruins offer Pastrnak 6/36 and his agent says no and she the Bruins say that's it go get an offer sheet but none come.

Yeh what does Pastrnak do?

what are his opinions

 

[LSCII]

Well when you go by badkarma

If the Bruins offer Pastrnak 6/36 and his agent says no and she the Bruins say that's it go get an offer sheet but none come.

Yeh what does Pastrnak do?

what are his opinions

That's more than a tad disingenuous, given that offer sheets to RFA's are few and far between in this league, no? Talk about a literal straw man argument. Go get something that virtually no team ever uses, because that proves your market value worth is lower than what you want? Is that what you really want to argue? Yikes. Even for you, that's pretty absurd...

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Well when you go by badkarma

If the Bruins offer Pastrnak 6/36 and his agent says no and she the Bruins say that's it go get an offer sheet but none come.

Yeh what does Pastrnak do?

what are his opinions

If the Bruins offer league minimum for eight years and his agent says no and the Bruins say that's it, go get an offer sheet and none comes along.

What does Pastrnak do?

What are his options?

 

[DKH]

Marchand's contract in terms of salary:

17/18: $8M ($4M singing bonus)
18/19: $8M ($3M signing bonus)
19/20: $7.5M ($4M signing bonus)
20/21: $5M ($1M signing bonus)
21/22: $6.5M ($4M signing bonus)
22/23: $5M ($3M signing bonus)
23/24: $5M ($2M signing bonus)
24/25: $4M ($3M signing bonus)

Really anyone should be able to look at that deal and see why the AAV isn't at all comparable to anything Pastrnak is likely looking at.

I posted this yesterday on the old thread after looking at Cam Fowler's deal, but now that I just noticed Marchand's is sort of along the same lines, I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being how they approach Pastrnak's deal:

17/18: $7.5M
18/19: $7.5M
19/20: $7.5M
20/21: $4.0M ($3M signing bonus)
21/22: $7.5M
22/23: $4.0M ($3M signing bonus)
23/24: $7.5M
24/25: $7.5M

Overall: $53M/8Y = $6.625M cap hit

Pay him a slightly higher salary than he'd normally be looking at as a form of lockout protection, which also serves to knock down the overall cap hit.

My guess is that rumored 6/36 was not signed because JP Barry wanted more then $1 M signing bonus in 2020-21

Now it's more complicated because of the Draisaitl deal

Boston could tell Pastrnak camp 6/36 and that's it. Go get an offer sheet.

I would do that it's $6 M dollars and a monster raise in line with other

Is there any NHL forward in history who got more than $6 M for 1 year over 15 goals

I don't think so

 

[Glove Malfunction]

I agreed with that in my response to Dom. Which is why I said if Pasta was not willing to sign until Draisaitl did, it's up to Sweeney to give him an incentive to do so.

What we know, by all accounts, is that earlier this off season, the B's and Pasta were moving forward with a 6x6 deal. Why that wasn't finalized is the question. If Sweeney delayed, shame on him. If Pasta balked at signing before the market was set, again, Sweeney needs to do something to make it worth it to Pasta to sign. Whether that's a few more dollars, or a longer term, so be it. Either way, what we do know is that Pasta hasn't signed, and he's obviously not going to for what Boston is hoping for. They're at an impasse because the Bruins don't want to give him what he's looking for. Which is this team's track record when dealing with skilled players. Here's the rub though, if Boston doesn't want to split the difference or give him fair market value, there are plenty of teams that would. It's only this franchise that is always trying to get a bargain at the RFA stage, and in reality, the way you get a bargain is to sign the guy to an extension before they hit RFA status. You offer them a bridge deal a year earlier for more money and you kick the can down the road a few years to see if the guy consistently becomes what you hoped for. Once he's done what you were hoping for even one time, it's too late.

There is no way Pasta is looking for a bridge deal. His time to cash in is now. If Boston doesn't get that by now, they've grossly misread the market and situation.

You're doing more assuming here - assuming that there was something Sweeney could have done to make a more enticing offer. If Barry was hell bent on not signing until seeing where the market was with Draisaitl, then placing blame on Sweeney is a fools errand.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

You're doing more assuming here - assuming that there was something Sweeney could have done to make a more enticing offer. If Barry was hell bent on not signing until seeing where the market was with Draisaitl, then placing blame on Sweeney is a fools errand.

Well then the real hold-up was Draisaitl..? Or was it the protection for the work stoppage?

You're right. It IS a lot of assuming. All we know is that Pastrnak is without a contract.

 

[pkunit]

Pasta is awesome, but he doesn't put up the same numbers without Bergy and Marchy. He doesn't know how to play in his own end either so there is no way I pay him more than Marchy.

 

[riverhawkey91]

you keep arguing this agenda you believe in {and you probably are right to believe in it} that young players should be paid more than old players

but nhl is an entertainment business run by old boys club and dealing with a union

I'm sorry... but your own agenda that the young should rule has very very very very very little to do with the reality of the NHL

in entertainment business... once a name has become ESTABLISHED its worth more. look at movies/or singing/or magic or any form of entertainment... the name on the marquee means something

Big, big difference between sports and other entertainment though. Yes, you're not at all wrong that established acts get paid more. And I don't even disagree that it still does and should happen in the NHL. But most entertainment businesses also aren't stupid enough to lock their young, high-potential talent up for only a couple years and risk having to pay them way more after the business has put in all that work to make them better and have them take off.

It's a different time now. The fact is, players have realized they're more valuable after each and every year, and teams have realized waiting to pay them has significant cap consequences. So while in the past it wasn't all that risky for teams to wait for players to prove themselves before signing long-term, now teams have realized they can bypass that and lock them in for less now to save themselves in the future -- which obviously players aren't going to complain about.

People need to stop acting like it's all about the players wanting these big contracts at a young age. It's EVERY bit as much about the team's wanting them to protect themselves from getting killed on the cap later. That's leverage that has shifted to the players...the bridge deal has now become a threat for the players against the teams, rather than the other way around. At least at players like Pastrnak and Draisaitl's level anyways.

FWIW I wasn't arguing Pastrnak should be paid more than Marchand; he shouldn't. But there's a big difference between cap hit and actual salary, and in reality Marchand's actual salary cut's his cap hit big time due to the age at the end of his deal. You'll never convince Pastrnak to take half his salary from this year in the last year of his deal because he'll be in the middle of his prime at that point.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

Pasta is awesome, but he doesn't put up the same numbers without Bergy and Marchy. He doesn't know how to play in his own end either so there is no way I pay him more than Marchy.

So to answer my question from above... You'd deal him away if Marchand's cap number doesn't get him signed?

 

[pkunit]

So to answer my question from above... You'd deal him away if Marchand's cap number doesn't get him signed?

For a player of equal or greater value yes.

 

[riverhawkey91]

My guess is that rumored 6/36 was not signed because JP Barry wanted more then $1 M signing bonus in 2020-21

Now it's more complicated because of the Draisaitl deal

Boston could tell Pastrnak camp 6/36 and that's it. Go get an offer sheet.

I would do that it's $6 M dollars and a monster raise in line with other

Is there any NHL forward in history who got more than $6 M for 1 year over 15 goals

I don't think so

If I were Pastrnak, if that's all the Bruins were offering and I legitimately wanted more than that (again, we still have no idea if Pastrnak even does), I'd tell them to **** off and say I'll only sign a bridge deal.

That's a nightmare scenario for the Bruins as they absolutely can not wait 2-3 years to sign him, given his future potential and the fact that McAvoy, Carlo and probably a few others will be up for contracts then.

edit - also that 15G thing is a bit disingenuous. Projected out over a whole season (Pastrnak played half the year in the AHL at 18 and was injured for 3 months at 19), his goal totals would have been somewhere around 18 at 18 and 25 at 19. I think that's a lot more reflective of his progression than the stats without context. Let's also not forget that Mikael Grandlund just got $5.75M with 4 straight (and 3 full) NHL seasons below 15G.

I also highly doubt he couldn't get an offersheet from anywhere...Vegas is probably salivating at the idea of a player like that becoming available, and teams like Edmonton or SJ would probably jettison some overpaid guy in a second to give Pastrnak a big money one-year offersheet for a run at the Cup.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

For a player of equal or greater value yes.

You wouldn't trade him for a player of greater value regardless?

 

[pkunit]

You wouldn't trade him for a player of greater value regardless?

It depends. I don't trade him for Ovechkin because of the age factor.

 

[BsEuphoria]

Pasta is awesome, but he doesn't put up the same numbers without Bergy and Marchy. He doesn't know how to play in his own end either so there is no way I pay him more than Marchy.

He just turned 21, lay off the reins there cowboy. This same thing could be said for so many guys in this league, including our one and only Marchy.

There is no stinking way he bites on 6/36 without a boat load of that in lockout protection cash. As he shouldn't, specially with that Drai contract now.

I actually like the looks of this:

17/18: $7.5M
18/19: $7.5M
19/20: $7.5M
20/21: $4.0M ($3M signing bonus)
21/22: $7.5M
22/23: $4.0M ($3M signing bonus)
23/24: $7.5M
24/25: $7.5M

Overall: $53M/8Y = $6.625M cap hit

 

[DKH]

i for one will be pissed if Sweeney caves in.

Pastrnak options include holding his breath and sitting out

I know he's not that dumb

Going from $950 K to 6 M for one year above 30 points with World Class linemates is absurd to begin with WHEN you have pretty much Z-E-R-O leverage

#staystrongdon

 

[s3antana5757]

Everyone is yelling about Don's inability to sign Pasta this off-season, but why did he not have the foresight to sign him LAST off-season? It was pretty obvious watching him that he was going to be a star. Even if he didn't have this past season, he was still going to be a serviceable NHL player. Does 4 or 5 get him signed long-term last off-season? They've waited, and continued to wait, and they are going to have to pay more than they would've if they had got the deal done sooner. Pretty simple.

 

[DKH]

If I were Pastrnak, if that's all the Bruins were offering and I legitimately wanted more than that (again, we still have no idea if Pastrnak even does), I'd tell them to **** off and say I'll only sign a bridge deal.

That's a nightmare scenario for the Bruins as they absolutely can not wait 2-3 years to sign him, given his future potential and the fact that McAvoy, Carlo and probably a few others will be up for contracts then.

edit - also that 15G thing is a bit disingenuous. Projected out over a whole season (Pastrnak played half the year in the AHL at 18 and was injured for 3 months at 19), his goal totals would have been somewhere around 18 at 18 and 25 at 19. I think that's a lot more reflective of his progression than the stats without context.

I also highly doubt he couldn't get an offersheet from anywhere...Vegas is probably salivating at the idea of a player like that becoming available, and teams like Edmonton or SJ would probably jettison some overpaid guy in a second to give Pastrnak a big money one-year offersheet for a run at the Cup.

If I was Sweeney and Pastrnak did that the bridge deal would be $4.5

If Pastrnak attitude at 6/36 is insulted I would be disgusted and his jersey would go in the trash

Next year's draft is considered deep and top heavy so if Vegas wants to hand over the potential first round pick #32 and #63 I'm in

But I seriously think No way he gets an offer sheet

Zero

I been told by folks who's name you would recognize it would be shocking in what is going on with the change in contract

I find the confusion on HF who has the hammer - it's not Pastrnak

 

[LSCII]

i for one will be pissed if Sweeney caves in.

Pastrnak options include holding his breath and sitting out

I know he's not that dumb

Going from $950 K to 6 M for one year above 30 points with World Class linemates is absurd to begin with WHEN you have pretty much Z-E-R-O leverage

#staystrongdon

People seem to be under the misguided belief that Pasta has no leverage here. Of course he does. He is not going to sign a well below market deal just because Sweeney wants him to. And the point that he only did it for one year is irrelevant. The relevant point is that he did it. And he's going to get paid for it. Whether that's here or elsewhere.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Everyone is yelling about Don's inability to sign Pasta this off-season, but why did he not have the foresight to sign him LAST off-season? It was pretty obvious watching him that he was going to be a star. Even if he didn't have this past season, he was still going to be a serviceable NHL player. Does 4 or 5 get him signed long-term last off-season? They've waited, and continued to wait, and they are going to have to pay more than they would've if they had got the deal done sooner. Pretty simple.

Like I've been saying, it takes two to tango. We have no idea if Pastrnak (and/or his agent) even wanted to negotiate last offseason, or even during the season. Everyone seems to want to place the blame for not signing Pastrnak at the feet of Sweeney, but no one can say for sure that Pastrnak was ever a willing participant in the process.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

People seem to be under the misguided belief that Pasta has no leverage here. Of course he does. He is not going to sign a well below market deal just because Sweeney wants him to. And the point that he only did it for one year is irrelevant. The relevant point is that he did it. And he's going to get paid for it. Whether that's here or elsewhere.

Wait, I thought it was all on Sweeney to get this contract thing done. That's what you've been saying. Until this post, where you acknowledge that Pasta has some say in how it goes down. We're finally getting somewhere!

 

[riverhawkey91]

If I was Sweeney and Pastrnak did that the bridge deal would be $4.5

Next year's draft is considered deep and top heavy so if Vegas wants to hand over the potential first round pick #32 and #63 I'm in

But I seriously think No way he gets an offer sheet

Zero

I been told by folks who's name you would recognize it would be shocking in what is going on with the change in contract

I find the confusion on HF who has the hammer - it's not Pastrnak

I have absolutely zero doubt if Sweeney won't come up on what Pastrnak wants (again, assuming they're actually all that far apart), he would gladly play that 2-3 years at $4.5 over 6+ years at $6, considering even one worse but still solid season (say 30G/30A) and then another one matching last year puts him firmly in the $8M(+) range.

What's better for the Pastrnak, and in reality for the Bruins:
6Y at $6M + 2Y at $9M = $56M
2Y at $4.5M + 6Y at $8M(probably over) = $57M
8Y at $7M, very likely even under = $56M

Easy call for me. That's leverage for Pastrnak's camp.

As for the offersheets, who knows. But I still disagree that a team like Vancouver, Vegas, SJ, etc. without a lot of young talent they'll have to pay anyways wouldn't be interested in an 5Y/$8M AAV deal for a player of that caliber they can afford.

 

[DKH]

Everyone is yelling about Don's inability to sign Pasta this off-season, but why did he not have the foresight to sign him LAST off-season? It was pretty obvious watching him that he was going to be a star. Even if he didn't have this past season, he was still going to be a serviceable NHL player. Does 4 or 5 get him signed long-term last off-season? They've waited, and continued to wait, and they are going to have to pay more than they would've if they had got the deal done sooner. Pretty simple.

I agree

I posted last August 20 this

"I think Pastrnak has a breakout year and gets 34, 35 goals and 75ish points. I know his high to date is 26 points but jumping 50 points can be done. Also what happens if Pastrnak has a big year and Chiarelli screws up the market with one of his patented overpays with McDavid or Draisaitl. I'd lock him up now 8/25."

Wow

Amazing post and forsight by me

I always thought I was awesome but didn't really want to brag but this seals it