Player Discussion David Pastrnak VII

[Mpasta]

Are you really serious with this crap, Dan? You can't be that oblivious, can you? What Forsberg signed for a YEAR AGO has no bearing on the contracts that are happening now. You can certainly feel that FF is a better player, but he isn't on the market today. If he was, he'd be getting a ******** more than what he got. It's nothing but unfortunate timing for him, but great timing for Draisaitl and Pasta. It's got nothing to do with their abilities and everything to do with the market shifting up in a favorable way for those guys right now. So what guys signed for last year, the year before, 5 years ago is irrelevant. It doesn't matter. It's not a comp that can even be made because it has zero bearing on today and where the market is.

Agreed. If he was willing to sign for $6m then it would have happened already and it'd be a really dumb contract for Pasta and his agent if they care about money.

But maybe Dan has insider information again and Pasta will sign for $6m as long as he gets a lot of guarenteed money... One can dream.

 

[DKH]

When one of my buds told me he read Darren Dreger post the Bruins are respectful of the Brad Marchand contract he said he laughed like hell and said Dreger needs to drop the word contract.

I still haven't read it but if the Bruins said that it's not the contract it's the guy. Krejci got more than Bergeron (although that was after 9 years not 3 and 1 good one like Pastrnak) so why are they not concerned over being the highest paid player - they are not they are worried about Marchand

Bruins clearly worried about how Marchand takes this because he's not the highest paid player on the team

If Marchand was a FA he would make sure he got paid atleast a $1 more than Pastrnak

 

[DominicT]

So because you and your buddies all came to a consensus, Pasta should sign for less than market value? And you think I'm argumentative just to be arugmentative?

Like it or not, times have changed in the NHL. Salaries are rising. Marginally talented players are making way more than some star players. It happens. Sub par players are making way more than they used to. Ultimately, this trend will continue until the next CBA is being negotiated and we'll get to see another lockout because despite the cap, owners have shown they cannot police themselves and stay fiscally responsible.

Either way though, that's not on the players, and does not mean a guy like Pasta should settle for $6mill per when other similar players are getting substantially more. It's a business. He and his agent are going to ask for the moon and try to get every dollar possible. You can't begrudge them for that at all because that's what they're supposed to do.

What I do have an issue with though is Sweeney. If he'd have taken care of this before Draisaitl signed, it would have likely been at their number. He'd have taken the 6 for 6 and been done with it. But like the long storied history of the B's, RFA negotiations never go smoothly. They always drag it out, and a lot of the time it bites them in the ass. Like KPD said back when Kessel was an RFA, you need to take care of business before someone else does it for you. In that case, it was the threat of an offer sheet. In this case, it was Chia signing Draisaitl to that deal. Either way, the Bruins front office ****ed up. Yet again. It's called Bruins...

The problem with the bolded: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Great!

Sweeney should have taken care of business. He tried. In the end, the player still has to put pen to paper.

That's a fact.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Agreed. If he was willing to sign for $6m then it would have happened already and it'd be a really dumb contract for Pasta and his agent if they care about money.

But maybe Dan has insider information again and Pasta will sign for $6m as long as he gets a lot of guarenteed money... One can dream.

I could see Pasta intentionally taking less angering other players bc in the end, everyone is looking to get paid, and Pasta taking market value is healthy for other players getting their market value

 

[BNHL]

That's doesn't tell me what Marchand is thinking though. Rask was supportive of Pasta last week, players stick together against owners IMO

Just put yourself in his spot. You have won a cup,are 5th in the NHL in goals the last 2 years combined and waited through 4 25-30+ goal seasons to make less than he might make after 1 season that the goals didn't match either of your last 2.

 

[LSCII]

The problem with the bolded: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Great!

Sweeney should have taken care of business. He tried. In the end, the player still has to put pen to paper.

That's a fact.

Absolutely, Dom. But in a negotiation, if there's an unwillingness to sign, you need to get to the bottom of it. Why wouldn't Pasta sign the 6x6? Was he waiting, correctly, to see what Draisaitl got? If so, then it's Sweeney's job to give him a concession and make him willing to sign. If he balked at the 6x6 offer, would he take a 6 mill over 7 year term? Or a 7 mill over 6 year term to forgo waiting it out? There has to be an incentive if they want the player to give up something. To me, it's such a small number in terms of the divide, that it's literally unfathomable they weren't able to bridge the gap. And to me, that screams they set in their mind what the number they wanted was, and haven't been willing to move off it.

Either way, the rest of the young guys can't be feeling that great right now. Are Carlo and McAvoy going to get nickel and dimed in 2 years because the B's don't want to pay market value? All their young draft picks too. Not a good look for this organization, especially given their history as being a notoriously cheap group.

 

[Hali33]

I can't believe "but what about Marchand's feelings" is even an argument.

 

[KrejciMVP]

Just put yourself in his spot. You have won a cup,are 5th in the NHL in goals the last 2 years combined and waited through 4 25-30+ goal seasons to make less than he might make after 1 season that the goals didn't match either of your last 2.

thats life though, not Pasta's fault he didnt take the Bruins to the bank.

My Cable bill is 160 while new customers get 99$, nobody cries for me

If I go into a new company I'm trying to get the most I can and I dont care what others in company make

 

[BNHL]

thats life though, not Pasta's fault he didnt take the Bruins to the bank.

My Cable bill is 160 while new customers get 99$, nobody cries for me

If I go into a new company I'm trying to get the most I can and I dont care what others in company make

When I found out that I was paying $39 a month at the gym while others paid $25,I *****ed and got it lowered. Same with my cable bill.

 

[DKH]

Absolutely, Dom. But in a negotiation, if there's an unwillingness to sign, you need to get to the bottom of it. Why wouldn't Pasta sign the 6x6? Was he waiting, correctly, to see what Draisaitl got? If so, then it's Sweeney's job to give him a concession and make him willing to sign. If he balked at the 6x6 offer, would he take a 6 mill over 7 year term? Or a 7 mill over 6 year term to forgo waiting it out? There has to be an incentive if they want the player to give up something. To me, it's such a small number in terms of the divide, that it's literally unfathomable they weren't able to bridge the gap. And to me, that screams they set in their mind what the number they wanted was, and haven't been willing to move off it.

Either way, the rest of the young guys can't be feeling that great right now. Are Carlo and McAvoy going to get nickel and dimed in 2 years because the B's don't want to pay market value? All their young draft picks too. Not a good look for this organization, especially given their history as being a notoriously cheap group.

Aren't the Bruins barely above the floor

Cheap ********

 

[BNHL]

I can't believe "but what about Marchand's feelings" is even an argument.

It's not an argument,but could be an insidious germ in the lockerroom.

 

[DKH]

I can't believe "but what about Marchand's feelings" is even an argument.

Dreger wrote it in a roundabout way

 

[Hali33]

It's not an argument,but could be an insidious germ in the lockerroom.

I think higher of Marchand than that.

He chose to take a sweetheart deal and spend his career here, that was the right decision for him.

I highly doubt he expects everyone else to take below market value from now on because of that.

And I'm sure he doesn't expect a 21 year old to have the same ties and loyalty to an organization to leave significant money on the table like he did.

 

[KrejciMVP]

I think higher of Marchand than that.

He chose to take a sweetheart deal and spend his career here, that was the right decision for him.

I highly doubt he expects everyone else to take below market value from now on because of that.

And I'm sure he doesn't expect a 21 year old to have the same ties and loyalty to an organization to leave significant money on the table like he did.

exactly, the kid is probably thinking right now of what players he can troll on the ice this year.

 

[DominicT]

Absolutely, Dom. But in a negotiation, if there's an unwillingness to sign, you need to get to the bottom of it. Why wouldn't Pasta sign the 6x6? Was he waiting, correctly, to see what Draisaitl got? If so, then it's Sweeney's job to give him a concession and make him willing to sign. If he balked at the 6x6 offer, would he take a 6 mill over 7 year term? Or a 7 mill over 6 year term to forgo waiting it out? There has to be an incentive if they want the player to give up something. To me, it's such a small number in terms of the divide, that it's literally unfathomable they weren't able to bridge the gap. And to me, that screams they set in their mind what the number they wanted was, and haven't been willing to move off it.

Either way, the rest of the young guys can't be feeling that great right now. Are Carlo and McAvoy going to get nickel and dimed in 2 years because the B's don't want to pay market value? All their young draft picks too. Not a good look for this organization, especially given their history as being a notoriously cheap group.

Lonnie, you talk about those things as if they are fact. We don't know. Sweeney may just have done everything you said and in the end, the player still didn't put pen to paper.

You are blaming Sweeney for not doing something when there is nothing to suggest that he didn't try. Do you really believe they talked for as long as the did and Sweeney made absolutely zero concessions in that time?

I'm not buying that for one second.

I can't believe "but what about Marchand's feelings" is even an argument.

I'm not really sure where it all started about Marchand and really don't care.

But like my reply to Lonnie above I don't believe for one second that when Marchand signed his deal a year ago his agent didn't suggest "Brad, we should wait until next summer, the contract will be worth more $$$ and this deal could be a serious underpayment."

Marchand refused to wait to sign an extension and was fully aware what was happening.

No way do I see this bothering Brad Marchand in any way, shape or form.

And if there isn't any truth to what I suggested about his agent, Brad should fire him immediately and he should be decertified by the NHLPA yesterday.

 

[DKH]

Just read the Dreger article

He mentioned Brad Marchand name 4 times

No other Bruins player mentioned

You guys win I'm going to pretend it's just a coincidence Dreger wrote what he did

 

[Hali33]

I'm not really sure where it all started about Marchand and really don't care.

But like my reply to Lonnie above I don't believe for one second that when Marchand signed his deal a year ago his agent didn't suggest "Brad, we should wait until next summer, the contract will be worth more $$$ and this deal could be a serious underpayment."

Marchand refused to wait to sign an extension and was fully aware what was happening.

No way do I see this bothering Brad Marchand in any way, shape or form.

And if there isn't any truth to what I suggested about his agent, Brad should fire him immediately and he should be decertified by the NHLPA yesterday.

Absolutely.

 

[DKH]

Lonnie, you talk about those things as if they are fact. We don't know. Sweeney may just have done everything you said and in the end, the player still didn't put pen to paper.

You are blaming Sweeney for not doing something when there is nothing to suggest that he didn't try. Do you really believe they talked for as long as the did and Sweeney made absolutely zero concessions in that time?

I'm not buying that for one second.



I'm not really sure where it all started about Marchand and really don't care.

But like my reply to Lonnie above I don't believe for one second that when Marchand signed his deal a year ago his agent didn't suggest "Brad, we should wait until next summer, the contract will be worth more $$$ and this deal could be a serious underpayment."

Marchand refused to wait to sign an extension and was fully aware what was happening.

No way do I see this bothering Brad Marchand in any way, shape or form.

And if there isn't any truth to what I suggested about his agent, Brad should fire him immediately and he should be decertified by the NHLPA yesterday.

Dom it's a Saturday and I figured I'd bring this up after one of my buds mentioned the Dreger article and his 'take' on the topic

Bruins seem hellbent on not going past 63 contract going by Dreger

Not worried about Krejci #

Three DKH predictions

1. Pastrnak under 30 goals in 2017-18
2. Sweeney offer sheets and lands Puljujarvi in 2018-19
3. Bruins Stanley Cup 2019-20 winner

 

[DominicT]

Dreger wrote it in a roundabout way

This is the same guy, (though I really don't care anymore) who refused to give credit where credit is due re Soderberg coming to NA when Kirk and I had the news 2 weeks before him and his mates Pierre LeBrun and Bob McKenzie had to do it for him.

Dreger will walk over anyone, including Bobby Mac, so he can reach the level Bobby Mac has.

I should forward you the email one of the guys I mentioned sent me back then. I guarantee you will be shocked.

 

[BruinLVGA]

So because you and your buddies all came to a consensus, Pasta should sign for less than market value? And you think I'm argumentative just to be arugmentative?

Like it or not, times have changed in the NHL. Salaries are rising. Marginally talented players are making way more than some star players. It happens. Sub par players are making way more than they used to. Ultimately, this trend will continue until the next CBA is being negotiated and we'll get to see another lockout because despite the cap, owners have shown they cannot police themselves and stay fiscally responsible.

Either way though, that's not on the players, and does not mean a guy like Pasta should settle for $6mill per when other similar players are getting substantially more. It's a business. He and his agent are going to ask for the moon and try to get every dollar possible. You can't begrudge them for that at all because that's what they're supposed to do.

What I do have an issue with though is Sweeney. If he'd have taken care of this before Draisaitl signed, it would have likely been at their number. He'd have taken the 6 for 6 and been done with it. But like the long storied history of the B's, RFA negotiations never go smoothly. They always drag it out, and a lot of the time it bites them in the ass. Like KPD said back when Kessel was an RFA, you need to take care of business before someone else does it for you. In that case, it was the threat of an offer sheet. In this case, it was Chia signing Draisaitl to that deal. Either way, the Bruins front office ****ed up. Yet again. It's called Bruins...

There's two parts involved. Maybe Pastrnak's camp had a good idea that there was a strong chance the McDavid and especially Draisaitl signings - if they happened - were going to shift the marketplace value higher? It was in their interest to stay put. That's a possibility.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

I would have to think Marchand would not be fan of Pasta making more than he.

He took 1-1.5 less than he could have if he had gone to UFA . We are talking a player who has paid his dues here. He left money on the table and more importantly cap space, only to have it gobbled up by a player who hasn't paid his dues, coming off a ELC, after 1 break-out season all because some twit out in western Canada wants to overpay anyone he can.

Marchand signed before he had has breakout season last year. He most certainly would not have gotten over 7.5 at the time he actually signed his contract. Thinking that is lunacy.

 

[missingchicklet]

I think higher of Marchand than that.

He chose to take a sweetheart deal and spend his career here, that was the right decision for him.

I highly doubt he expects everyone else to take below market value from now on because of that.

And I'm sure he doesn't expect a 21 year old to have the same ties and loyalty to an organization to leave significant money on the table like he did.

Bingo. There is no way Marchand is going to care and dwell on what another player is getting. Payers understand this is a business, and market values of players change from year to year based on the different dynamics of the market from year to year. Marchand could have waited, but that would have been a gamble on his end. He was coming off a career year when he signed. There was no guarantee he would best that the following year. He struck while the iron was hot and got a very nice multi-year deal valued somewhere between his career averages and a scorer based on his career-best season. This foolishness about Pasta, a very young 70 pt scorer, needing to be given a contract based on previous years' values or based on what other players on the team are given is simply ridiculous. Players are signed based on current market value. In the case of Pasta this means he will make more than Marchand. It's simply all about what the market is doing now, not anything else.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

Better chance of Marchand getting 40 than Pastrnak getting 30 this year

And what does this have to do with how Marchand is supposedly going to be upset if pasta makes more than him. If you ask me, that line of thinking is nothing but a load of crap.

 

[Glove Malfunction]

So because you and your buddies all came to a consensus, Pasta should sign for less than market value? And you think I'm argumentative just to be arugmentative?

Like it or not, times have changed in the NHL. Salaries are rising. Marginally talented players are making way more than some star players. It happens. Sub par players are making way more than they used to. Ultimately, this trend will continue until the next CBA is being negotiated and we'll get to see another lockout because despite the cap, owners have shown they cannot police themselves and stay fiscally responsible.

Either way though, that's not on the players, and does not mean a guy like Pasta should settle for $6mill per when other similar players are getting substantially more. It's a business. He and his agent are going to ask for the moon and try to get every dollar possible. You can't begrudge them for that at all because that's what they're supposed to do.

What I do have an issue with though is Sweeney. If he'd have taken care of this before Draisaitl signed, it would have likely been at their number. He'd have taken the 6 for 6 and been done with it. But like the long storied history of the B's, RFA negotiations never go smoothly. They always drag it out, and a lot of the time it bites them in the ass. Like KPD said back when Kessel was an RFA, you need to take care of business before someone else does it for you. In that case, it was the threat of an offer sheet. In this case, it was Chia signing Draisaitl to that deal. Either way, the Bruins front office ****ed up. Yet again. It's called Bruins...

I've said it before and I'll say it again Lonnie, we have no idea who was the one dragging their feet in negotiations. There's is absolutely nothing to say that Sweeney purposely waiting on getting it done. Who's to say Barry and Pasta weren't the one who were determined to wait until LD signed? In this situation, I think you'r loony to think Barry would have just accepted 6/6 for Pasta without knowing where the market was going to fall. He's (unfortunately for the Bruins) too smart and too good a player agent for that. I think the thought that they would have accepted 6 for 6, but Sweeney just waited on offering it to them is fantasy.

 

[Mainehockey33]

This argument is dumb. Did Bergeron cry himself to sleep at night when Krejci made more than him? No, because he's not 10. Marchand will be alright. I have faith he'll still talk to Pastrnak after this deal gets done.