Prospect Info: David Farrance, D, 92nd Overall, USNTDP

[Armourboy]

Kinda sorta dont agree. I mean, non NCAA prospects only have to wait three years before a team loses their rights, correct?
The draft is an agreement among NHL teams that creates a finite period of exclusive rights, but they cant be binding forever. A player has to have some ability to say "no, I choose not to sign with the team that drafted me" and at some point they should be released from their obligation. Otherwise we are back to the old "reserve clause" days where a team owns you for life.

The NCAA rule already makes them wait 6 weeks past the UFA signing period, likely limiting their options should they hold on that long.

Make them go back into the draft then, or better yet handle it like every other league and you aren't drafted until you are leaving college. Same goes for the rest too. Teams shouldn't have rights for life either, but outside of college players how many do you hear of that sat around in a European League until their draft rights ran out just so they could choose where to go?

 

[PredsV82]

Make them go back into the draft then, or better yet handle it like every other league and you aren't drafted until you are leaving college. Same goes for the rest too. Teams shouldn't have rights for life either, but outside of college players how many do you hear of that sat around in a European League until their draft rights ran out just so they could choose where to go?

Lost a long post here but the point is, the NHL already has by far the most restrictive rules on how long a team holds a drafted players rights. All other major sports are pretty much 1 year. So saying that keeping a college player beholden to their drafting team for 4 and a half years isnt long enough, is just ridiculous.

At some point, these people have a right to choose their own destiny, as much as it may suck for the team that drafted them.

Nobody seems to have a problem with teams drafting multiple players every year that never even get offered a contract. Why should it be a problem other way around

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Lost a long post here but the point is, the NHL already has by far the most restrictive rules on how long a team holds a drafted players rights. All other major sports are pretty much 1 year. So saying that keeping a college player beholden to their drafting team for 4 and a half years isnt long enough, is just ridiculous.

At some point, these people have a right to choose their own destiny, as much as it may suck for the team that drafted them.

Nobody seems to have a problem with teams drafting multiple players every year that never even get offered a contract. Why should it be a problem other way around

Just give the team that loses the NCAA player draft compensation depending on what pick the guy was and call it a day...

 

[Soundgarden]

Just give the team that loses the NCAA player draft compensation depending on what pick the guy was and call it a day...

I like that idea, any reason why the league stopped doing compensation picks, at least when it came to RFA and UFAs?

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

How does baseball do it--since it's the closest analogue of the "big" sports leagues? Don't they shuffle the player back into the draft if they haven't signed in a certain number of years and also award compensatory picks?

Hasn't there been talk about raising the NHL draft age over the last few years? If they raised it to 18, could they shift draft eligibility to a "declaration" system similar to the NBA/NFL?

 

[PredsV82]

I like that idea, any reason why the league stopped doing compensation picks, at least when it came to RFA and UFAs?

The salary cap/floor. Comp picks were for low budget teams only.

 

[Armourboy]

Lost a long post here but the point is, the NHL already has by far the most restrictive rules on how long a team holds a drafted players rights. All other major sports are pretty much 1 year. So saying that keeping a college player beholden to their drafting team for 4 and a half years isnt long enough, is just ridiculous.

At some point, these people have a right to choose their own destiny, as much as it may suck for the team that drafted them.

Nobody seems to have a problem with teams drafting multiple players every year that never even get offered a contract. Why should it be a problem other way around

Move it to 5 years so it stings a little and require teams to offer an ELC upon being drafted. Player can shoot it down at which the team is no longer required to compensate the player.

 

[herzausstein]

Just give the team that loses the NCAA player draft compensation depending on what pick the guy was and call it a day...

The problem there is that you wasted 4 years on that prospect and you'll have to spend a couple years developing whatever pick you get with the new pick.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

The problem there is that you wasted 4 years on that prospect and you'll have to spend a couple years developing whatever pick you get with the new pick.

It's really only us fans that "waste" our hopes. The player in the NCAA is pretty much cut off from any NHL-team development investment anyway.

I think it's a totally fair system. Juniors and most European league players become free agents if not signed even sooner than NCAA players do. It's exceedingly rare that a prominent NCAA prospect waits out the full 4 years and goes UFA. The only reason we take note of it really is the whole Vesey case.

 

[herzausstein]

It's really only us fans that "waste" our hopes. The player in the NCAA is pretty much cut off from any NHL-team development investment anyway.

I think it's a totally fair system. Juniors and most European league players become free agents if not signed even sooner than NCAA players do. It's exceedingly rare that a prominent NCAA prospect waits out the full 4 years and goes UFA. The only reason we take note of it really is the whole Vesey case.

They participate in development camp do they not? I understand during the seasons they're not really allowed to do anything but I'm sure we still scout his games to give him information on how to improve his game. I don't disagree that it's the players right but I just feel that a draft pick 4 years later isn't exactly thrilling for the NHL team but it's better than nothing.

On the plus side, the 3rd round pick we got for trading Vesey's rights to Buffalo got us Rem Pitlick who I'm pretty high on.

 

[Predsanddead24]

How about have a compensatory pick that comes from the signing team that is draft round of the player plus one (so someone picked in the 3rd round gets a 2nd rounder etc.). Makes the team who signs them have to be willing to give something up and you get some benefit from having them in your pool for four years beyond getting the same pick back.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

How about have a compensatory pick that comes from the signing team that is draft round of the player plus one (so someone picked in the 3rd round gets a 2nd rounder etc.). Makes the team who signs them have to be willing to give something up and you get some benefit from having them in your pool for four years beyond getting the same pick back.

I mean, they used to do that, at least for 1st round picks who didn't sign. But I guess then it brings in the question of "players who chose not to sign" vs. "players you chose not to sign": of course there are also many players who pass through the 4 NCAA years and the team that drafted them doesn't even want to sign them anymore. So I definitely don't think you should get a draft pick in the latter case.

I guess it doesn't affect the player's rights or freedom of choice in any way if you did offer a compensatory pick as you describe... contingent say on at least having offered the player a max-value ELC as a bona fide offer. If you've met that minimum criteria of a registered bona fide offer that is as good as any team could offer them, then getting a compensatory pick a round later seems pretty fair to me. Most of these cases, the player has just developed so well out of a late pick already. Farrance was picked at the very end of the 3rd round, so getting a 4th rounder in compensation for a player who has panned out that well would still hurt. But at least it is something. If a player simply has other reasons for not wanting to sign, I guess that's fair.

So if we offer Farrance the max ELC of $925k with $92,500 signing bonus, and he still won't sign with us... especially since he can definitely step in today and start burning that off... then ok, getting a 4th round compensatory pick seems fair to me. Doesn't affect the player in any way.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I mean, they used to do that, at least for 1st round picks who didn't sign. But I guess then it brings in the question of "players who chose not to sign" vs. "players you chose not to sign": of course there are also many players who pass through the 4 NCAA years and the team that drafted them doesn't even want to sign them anymore. So I definitely don't think you should get a draft pick in the latter case.

I guess it doesn't affect the player's rights or freedom of choice in any way if you did offer a compensatory pick as you describe... contingent say on at least having offered the player a max-value ELC as a bona fide offer. If you've met that minimum criteria of a registered bona fide offer that is as good as any team could offer them, then getting a compensatory pick a round later seems pretty fair to me. Most of these cases, the player has just developed so well out of a late pick already. Farrance was picked at the very end of the 3rd round, so getting a 4th rounder in compensation for a player who has panned out that well would still hurt. But at least it is something. If a player simply has other reasons for not wanting to sign, I guess that's fair.

So if we offer Farrance the max ELC of $925k with $92,500 signing bonus, and he still won't sign with us... especially since he can definitely step in today and start burning that off... then ok, getting a 4th round compensatory pick seems fair to me. Doesn't affect the player in any way.

I meant an improvement of the round. So we'd get a 2nd for Farrance in this case. I also believe the compensatory picks were just an additional pick that was given to the team who lost the player so the signing team didn't lose anything. In the case I'm proposing the team is essentially trading that pick to be able to sign the player. I do think the idea about requiring a max offer to the player from the team to get the compensatory pick is a good one.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I meant an improvement of the round. So we'd get a 2nd for Farrance in this case. I also believe the compensatory picks were just an additional pick that was given to the team who lost the player so the signing team didn't lose anything. In the case I'm proposing the team is essentially trading that pick to be able to sign the player. I do think the idea about requiring a max offer to the player from the team to get the compensatory pick is a good one.

Oh, ok, I obviously didn't pick up on the round improvement... I'm guessing that would be a non-starter for the NHL. A round down at least has that historical precedent that I think most teams would view as "harmless".

 

[Armourboy]

It's really only us fans that "waste" our hopes. The player in the NCAA is pretty much cut off from any NHL-team development investment anyway.

I think it's a totally fair system. Juniors and most European league players become free agents if not signed even sooner than NCAA players do. It's exceedingly rare that a prominent NCAA prospect waits out the full 4 years and goes UFA. The only reason we take note of it really is the whole Vesey case.

See I don't really care how they do it but the timing needs to be the same for every single player.

I kind of see it like this, if you start your professional career then the team should have your rights for 5 years. You can play wherever you want but if you come to the US or Canada then you go to that team. Same for college players. If you want to go to college you can do that but the team still has you for college +1. Same goes for NHL players that sign at 18, ELC, 2 years of RFA and then you are UFA.

This means all players no matter what course they take are UFA's at 25. You can either make money or go to college and have 1 year overseas but you aren't getting a free ride in college and then walking away.

I also think once drafted the team should be required to offer you an ELC. If you want to make it fair you can have the ELC only last 1 year for players so that it fits with the college systems. Those playing in the NHL would then hit RFA for the final 4.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Oh, ok, I obviously didn't pick up on the round improvement... I'm guessing that would be a non-starter for the NHL. A round down at least has that historical precedent that I think most teams would view as "harmless".

You're right it would never happen since as with many things NHL what is actually possible versus what I would prefer are wildly different.

 

[PredsV82]

They participate in development camp do they not? I understand during the seasons they're not really allowed to do anything but I'm sure we still scout his games to give him information on how to improve his game. I don't disagree that it's the players right but I just feel that a draft pick 4 years later isn't exactly thrilling for the NHL team but it's better than nothing.

On the plus side, the 3rd round pick we got for trading Vesey's rights to Buffalo got us Rem Pitlick who I'm pretty high on.

Last time I checked, NCAA players have to pay their own way to development camp or they would lose their amateur status and NCAA eligibility. Stupid rule but that's what it is

 

[Flgatorguy87]

BU makes it in as a 3 seed

 

[PredsV82]

BU makes it in as a 3 seed

So the Farrance watch goes on for at least a few more days...

 

[101st_fan]

BU vs St Cloud St is Saturday at 630 pm EDT.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

...and let the watch begin

 

[BigFatCat999]

...and let the watch begin

Give the kid a day then offer.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

...and let the watch begin

It shouldn't be much of a "watch". Well, shouldn't. Give Farrance the same contract Fabbro got. ELC max and a little dash of performance bonuses. Even though Fabbro was a 1st rounder, and Farrance a 3rd rounder. It's not worth splitting those particular hairs.

On top of that, bring him here. Taxi Squad to start, promise that he'll play NHL games at some point, and keep that promise. But how many he plays is up to him and how he performs. It could be every game the rest of the season, or it could be a 1 game cameo like with Cole Smith. That's up to him.

But nobody else in the league is going to beat that offer, especially not in a way that burns Year 1 of his ELC this year.

If that isn't the offer, then Poile is just dicking around unnecessarily. And if that is the offer and Farrance rejects it... well then we're in trouble.

 

[101st_fan]

Now we wait and see what happens in the next few business days.

 

[ILikeItILoveIt]

Kid holds all the cards. Comes down to who he wants to play with. He’ll truly be free to sign the same contract with anyone in the off-season. Great position to be in. Vesey II. We can offer the potential 1st year ELC burn and potential playoff minutes so if he wants to play for us, it’s a no-brained. If he doesn’t, it’s a no-brained for him. He pulls a Vesey. It is what it is. Everyday that goes by, our chances plummet.