David Desharnais part XI - We don't hate him but ... Edition

[phillytennis]

Plekanec 2 points in last 8 games.
Parenteau 2 points in last 6 games.(5.5 to be fair)
Galchenyuk 1 point in last 4 games.

etc...

Are they all ineffective at their positions?

I think there's a very strange misconception. A player who played with the same linemate for years, a player who played the same position for years is now in a different role, different line, different position and he does not look like a liability.

In my mind, there's an adjustment period. I believe DD is much better as a C. I also feel Eller is much better as a C and that Plekanec is a much better C as well. It is what it is but I think we can see decent things out of him in due time.

I thought he looked better on Eller's wing or as the 3rd line C though.

I think one big thing is "DD only produces because of max" then he didn't get max and produced nearly a PPG in about the same sample size you find conclusive. That proved he can produce without him. That's a bonus. Now, he's a winger and I think for someone trying to learn a new position after so long, there's a certain adjustment period involved.

That being said, my stance is not specific to DD. I'm a strong supporter of Eller as a C because he wasn't used to being on the wing. It required time for him to adjust and he was only kept there for short periods of time. The same applies to DD for me so I'm not biased on this in case you think so.

I don't understand how people talk so favourably about Eller and are so negatively about Desharnais. Both are very good skaters...DD has better offensive instincts and is the best passer on the team...better vision of the ice than Eller. Eller is not a playmaker...he will never be a playmaker...so forget a role as a top 6 role.
I still think Eller will give a greater return in a trade than DD.

 

[Andy]

I still think Eller will give a greater return in a trade than DD.

And I think Eller is more important to this team's success than DD in the long-term. Trading Eller would depend on the return, but DD is the one that should be upgraded.

That being said, DD looks good on the wing, and I don't want to sound like I'm bashing him in saying that he can be upgraded. He's fine where he is right now, and the MT has way more flexibility in his centre matchups because of it.

 

[Harry Wong]

I never thought that DD could work on the wing so I'm pleasantly surprised. Maybe its' brcause he is less of a defensive liability.
I still worry how his game will translate as we wind into a tougher game coming up to and into the playoffs.

Anybody who says that size doesn't matter should speak to a woman.

 

[DAChampion]

I don't understand how people talk so favourably about Eller and are so negatively about Desharnais. Both are very good skaters...DD has better offensive instincts and is the best passer on the team...better vision of the ice than Eller. Eller is not a playmaker...he will never be a playmaker...so forget a role as a top 6 role.
I still think Eller will give a greater return in a trade than DD.

Eller is three years younger, taller, is better on defense, and better on offense.

The idea that DD is better on offense is a myth promoted by RDS and a misreading of statistics. Since the lockout, Eller produces more goals and same number of points per minute of 5on5 time.

 

[Grant McCagg]

I don't understand how people talk so favourably about Eller and are so negatively about Desharnais. Both are very good skaters...DD has better offensive instincts and is the best passer on the team...better vision of the ice than Eller. Eller is not a playmaker...he will never be a playmaker...so forget a role as a top 6 role.
I still think Eller will give a greater return in a trade than DD.

No - DD is not a very good skater. He is average at best. Yes...his 24-inch long legs move faster than Chara's..doesn't make him fast.
No DD is not the best playmaker on the team. (name his last great first assist..was it this season?)
Offensive instincts better? Maybe...doesn't count for much of you don't have the physical attributes to back it up.

 

[cphabs]

The hell with it! I like the guy! Crow tastes better with beer if any are wondering...

 

[Mathletic]

No - DD is not a very good skater. He is average at best. Yes...his 24-inch long legs move faster than Chara's..doesn't make him fast.
No DD is not the best playmaker on the team. (name his last great first assist..was it this season?)
Offensive instincts better? Maybe...doesn't count for much of you don't have the physical attributes to back it up.

He has made a few this season. Can easily point out to the one on one of Prust's goals. Can't recall what game that was but left Prust with a net wide open.

edit: against Carolina, which was actually his last assist.

http://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/boxscore?id=2014020455

 

[Kriss E]

That implies that every NHL player will produce in 82 games of the season...it wont happen, even the top players in the league will have bad nights or invisible nights.

No it doesn't. You can have a terrific game and not produce. Production doesn't dictate whether you were visible or not.
If a guy like Pacioretty is invisible, that means he had a bad game. Top 6 players need to be visible, it doesn't mean they have to produce every night.
And yes, it's perfectly normal that sometimes they'll be invisible, that's just a bad game and it happens to everyone.

 

[Pricef*]

DD is part of the past of this club. Eller is its present and future. This a great thing, we are upgrading at every position!

 

[_vivelequebec_]

Thing is Eller is the perfect 3rd liner or almost is, Jordan Staal type of player. DD receives a lot of hate and unjustified critics but let's face it, he's not a top 6 player when you're aiming at the Cup. So where do you put him? He can't defend. He could be a good 2nd center on a rebuilding team and that's it.

 

[pepperMonkey]

DD is part of the past of this club. Eller is its present and future. This a great thing, we are upgrading at every position!

Odd, could have sworn he was still playing for this team...

 

[Pricef*]

Odd, could have sworn he was still playing for this team...

For now. Stay tuned...

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I don't understand how people talk so favourably about Eller and are so negatively about Desharnais. Both are very good skaters...DD has better offensive instincts and is the best passer on the team...better vision of the ice than Eller. Eller is not a playmaker...he will never be a playmaker...so forget a role as a top 6 role.
I still think Eller will give a greater return in a trade than DD.

The bolded is true but unless the return justifies the exchange, I'm not sure it's worth it. Obviously, if you'd give me a Bobby Ryan esque RWer in exchange for Eller I'd throw DD on 3rd line C without thinking twice. If we're going to get crap, might as well keep the status quo a bit and deal with this in the summer. By that point, I'd imagine DD would be the odd man out unless they decide to keep him for back up/versatility purposes.

And I think Eller is more important to this team's success than DD in the long-term. Trading Eller would depend on the return, but DD is the one that should be upgraded.

That being said, DD looks good on the wing, and I don't want to sound like I'm bashing him in saying that he can be upgraded. He's fine where he is right now, and the MT has way more flexibility in his centre matchups because of it.

I can't really disagree with this. We can always upgrade a handful of players on the roster, DD is surely one of them. For now, as I said above, I think status quo is the best move as we're successful in this format and injuries can always happen. The summer would be a better time to assess if upgrades can or cannot be made.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

No - DD is not a very good skater. He is average at best. Yes...his 24-inch long legs move faster than Chara's..doesn't make him fast.
No DD is not the best playmaker on the team. (name his last great first assist..was it this season?)
Offensive instincts better? Maybe...doesn't count for much of you don't have the physical attributes to back it up.

Didn't DD finish with good speed numbers in the canadiens skills competition?

Here it is.

Slightly slower than pyatt, slightly faster than PK, slower than pacioretty.

I don't consider this a perfect representation of skating prowess but it does say something does it not?

Pyatt was a noted speedster so I think DD fits in there as 'above average' but not necessarily great per say.

 

[Natey]

And I think Eller is more important to this team's success than DD in the long-term. Trading Eller would depend on the return, but DD is the one that should be upgraded.

That being said, DD looks good on the wing, and I don't want to sound like I'm bashing him in saying that he can be upgraded. He's fine where he is right now, and the MT has way more flexibility in his centre matchups because of it.

Everyone can be upgraded.

It's finding the means to do it.

 

[Kriss E]

I can't really disagree with this. We can always upgrade a handful of players on the roster, DD is surely one of them. For now, as I said above, I think status quo is the best move as we're successful in this format and injuries can always happen. The summer would be a better time to assess if upgrades can or cannot be made.

We need to upgrade or add, whichever, but if I'm Bergevin I'm looking to add a top 6-9 winger. It's tough to pinpoint a target now because teams are still in PO contention but two candidates for me now are Foligno and Jagr.
If the Jets move out of contention, big Buff is an obvious target for me. Not sure how much he would cost but he has proven to be an absolute monster in the POs so I wouldn't mind overpaying a bit. He could be a big difference maker.

There is no reason for us not to actually be going for it this year. Just like last year. The east is open. We need to be aggressive, our contention window is open.

 

[Mathletic]

We need to upgrade or add, whichever, but if I'm Bergevin I'm looking to add a top 6-9 winger. It's tough to pinpoint a target now because teams are still in PO contention but two candidates for me now are Foligno and Jagr.
If the Jets move out of contention, big Buff is an obvious target for me. Not sure how much he would cost but he has proven to be an absolute monster in the POs so I wouldn't mind overpaying a bit. He could be a big difference maker.

There is no reason for us not to actually be going for it this year. Just like last year. The east is open. We need to be aggressive, our contention window is open.

Foligno just re-signed with Columbus.

 

[Kriss E]

Foligno just re-signed with Columbus.

Bummer. On to the next then!

 

[ECWHSWI]

I don't understand how people talk so favourably about Eller and are so negatively about Desharnais. Both are very good skaters...DD has better offensive instincts and is the best passer on the team...better vision of the ice than Eller. Eller is not a playmaker...he will never be a playmaker...so forget a role as a top 6 role.
I still think Eller will give a greater return in a trade than DD.

Yup, and Galchenyuk would probably give a greater return in a trade than both... so what's your point ??

 

[LyricalLyricist]

We need to upgrade or add, whichever, but if I'm Bergevin I'm looking to add a top 6-9 winger. It's tough to pinpoint a target now because teams are still in PO contention but two candidates for me now are Foligno and Jagr.
If the Jets move out of contention, big Buff is an obvious target for me. Not sure how much he would cost but he has proven to be an absolute monster in the POs so I wouldn't mind overpaying a bit. He could be a big difference maker.

There is no reason for us not to actually be going for it this year. Just like last year. The east is open. We need to be aggressive, our contention window is open.

That does this have to do with trading DD? If anything, you're suggesting acquiring a winger. If say Eller goes down, DD can fill in. A winger cannot. This does not really mean much in the way of DD for several reasons:

1) Contenders usually add, not subtract. We'd add a rental like Jagr, not remove top 9 players.

2) Teams who are 'selling' don't take on term. They ask for prospects

So I don't really see DD involved for deadline purposes. Beforehand in a player for player deal? Perhaps. Just sellers wouldn't take term IMO.

Yup, and Galchenyuk would probably give a greater return in a trade than both... so what's your point ??

This is a re-used argument and while it makes sense, you're pretty much ignoring the premise.

The idea is if you can get a top line RW with say Eller as the main piece and slot DD as center on 3rd line I'd much rather have say Bobby Ryan+DD than trading DD for a pick and having Eller+2nd rounder.

That's all it is. Unless he meant differently of course.

 

[ECWHSWI]

This is a re-used argument and while it makes sense, you're pretty much ignoring the premise.

The idea is if you can get a top line RW with say Eller as the main piece and slot DD as center on 3rd line I'd much rather have say Bobby Ryan+DD than trading DD for a pick and having Eller+2nd rounder.

That's all it is. Unless he meant differently of course.

that's the thing...

 

[CHwest]

Eller is the type of player you trade for, a playoff warrior. DD is the type of player you hope some GM will like the flash of and give you an Eller for.

 

[DAChampion]

An advantage of Desharnais over Parenteau is that he can play centre if someone happens to be injured.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

that's the thing...

To be fair, I don't think he meant differently.

Either way, it's a logical debate to have within the canadiens organization. If they can get more quality with DD+Eller's return than Eller+DD's return it's cool with me.

Otherwise, it's a no brainer to keep Eller for 3rd line role at this point in time.

 

[Kriss E]

That does this have to do with trading DD? If anything, you're suggesting acquiring a winger. If say Eller goes down, DD can fill in. A winger cannot. This does not really mean much in the way of DD for several reasons:

1) Contenders usually add, not subtract. We'd add a rental like Jagr, not remove top 9 players.

2) Teams who are 'selling' don't take on term. They ask for prospects

So I don't really see DD involved for deadline purposes. Beforehand in a player for player deal? Perhaps. Just sellers wouldn't take term IMO.

I said upgrade or add, in other word, improve. If that's now in a 1 on 1 swap, or a deadline roster player+prospect/pick for player(s), it all depends on the pieces involved obviously.
But yes, what's likely to happen is what we did last year.