TSN: Dave Poulin on the state of the Oilers

Stoneman89

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Feb 8, 2008
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I'm on the fence with the Nuge, and of course it's likely going to come down to what he and his agent are looking for, and if Kenny thinks it will work here. He has some money available, but he can't be stupid about it.

Regarding Larsson, there is no fence sitting. He is a piece that is badly needed on ANY team that is looking to compete and be a contender. You can't have all sizzle and offence like Barrie, Bouch and Broberg. Larsson proved all year that he is a great sandpaper defenceman. He's had injury issues and personal issues but it appears those are in the rear view mirror. He was a warrior this year, and played some very heavy minutes. Because of his role and limited offensive capabilities, he's not going to be anywhere near the Nurse or Barrie asks, but make no mistake, this guy is a core piece.
 

Fixed to Ruin

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Feb 28, 2007
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I'm on the fence with the Nuge, and of course it's likely going to come down to what he and his agent are looking for, and if Kenny thinks it will work here. He has some money available, but he can't be stupid about it.

Regarding Larsson, there is no fence sitting. He is a piece that is badly needed on ANY team that is looking to compete and be a contender. You can't have all sizzle and offence like Barrie, Bouch and Broberg. Larsson proved all year that he is a great sandpaper defenceman. He's had injury issues and personal issues but it appears those are in the rear view mirror. He was a warrior this year, and played some very heavy minutes. Because of his role and limited offensive capabilities, he's not going to be anywhere near the Nurse or Barrie asks, but make no mistake, this guy is a core piece.

I feel Larsson can be to Bouchard & Broberg what Methot was to Erik Karlsson.

No brainer to resign him.
 
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Drivesaitl

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Oct 8, 2017
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I don't see these things with Nuge. He tries he's just not the strongest guy so he gets outmuscled. Inconsistency yes. Playing tentatively yes, although not all the time. When he's on his game he plays better and that tentativeness seems to go away. He was definitely battling more in the series against the Jets, and I thought he had one of the better series' of the Oilers' forwards.

Humans are subject to recency memory and Nuge play is subject to comprehending this fact. He's a player that is speciously careful to play much better at the end. But had about as empty a season as its possible for an alleged star player to have. Nuge was a ghost in the first couple games, had a good shift here and there. But he made a concerted effort to be better at times in games 3,4, but still only picking his spots. The thing is his star contemporaries bring a level and standard of play virtually every game. Nuge is a great talent, that seldom uses it. The brilliant goal he scored is still part of his potential, but how often do we see him unwrap something like that. It was the best goal he scored all year. Predictably at the end. nuge would hope he's remembered for that rather than his non stellar play most of the season.

Nuge instincts are about avoiding reprisal. He's the player that will be involved in a scoring play late in a 5-1 loss. Putting in a token appearance. Or show up towards the end of a series that had already gone the other way. Or show up into a season last season on NYE after doing little before it. My harsher take is he pretends at caring, at being loyal, about being a "solid defensive player". As others have noted I can't imagine the double take for new players coming in here and seeing Nuge have a letter. Its like immediate permission to do less here.
 
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iCanada

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Poulin may be right but you’re completely wrong. The 05-06 team was loaded with long-term Edmonton guys most of whom we drafted and developed. A few trade acquisitions put that group over the top. The main problem in Edmonton for its entire existence has been failing to commit to the good players here, “the grass is always greener”, but the grass has -never- been greener. Every time we trade away a good player we get sweet F all in return. This team would already be a contender if we didn’t excise our best wingers and Petry for nothing. Now, this year may be different because we have cap flexibility and money is tight league wide. But there still has to be a clear upgrade to make it worth moving on from these guys, and that isn’t obvious - especially since half the guys in the league won’t play here even if they are on the market.

Pronger, Tjarnstrom, Peca, Samsonov, Sykora, Dvorak, Semenov, Spacek, Roloson.

I guess our top3D, out 2C, one of our best wingers, and our starting goaltender aren't anything but a few minor acquisitions.
 

CycloneSweep

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Sep 27, 2017
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I laugh so hard when I read stuff like this. “Well he plays well here in the past and he’s good so just pay up to keep him because they don’t need to change a good thing”. You think Buffalo isn’t regretting every day that Jeff Skinner contract, an eerily similar career path to what RNH is on? Skinner bent Buffalo over and they felt like they wouldn’t be able to bring in his calibre of player that fit well with Eichel, or wouldn’t have a better option. Bigger difference is Skinner at least produced to that point with Eichel.

For every “oh you don’t think we would have wanted to keep Eberle look how good he is” there is a Skinner on the other side. You also do realize that Eberle signed his UFA deal for 5.5M? You don’t think if RNH was willing to stay for 5.5M Holland wouldn’t have the paper work done.


Someone called it a million dollar question, and that’s what it quite literally is. If rumors are correct and the Oilers are offering under 6M, are you willing to spend another million per season just to keep him?
There is an expansion draft around the corner. Guys like Ovechkin and Landeskog aren't signed either. We won't know what he is getting until it happens. Lots of teams most likely will have handshake deals for after the expansion draft so they can keep the ufas but can expose them.

Seattle picks them oh well, they sign with us anyways as a UFA.

I hate the finality people are talking about it like Nuge is going to suck and be a waste of his 7x7 contract that he doesn't have yet

Moving on doesn't always work. Keeping guys do want always work. There is no Guarentees either way.

There are 3 ufas better than Nuge and I doubt ANY of them don't resign. It's not some magical free agent class where letting Nuge go is beneficial so we can land some big guy. If he is willing to sign for under 6 it's a no brainer.
 

Bring Back Bucky

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Poulin may be right but you’re completely wrong. The 05-06 team was loaded with long-term Edmonton guys most of whom we drafted and developed. A few trade acquisitions put that group over the top. The main problem in Edmonton for its entire existence has been failing to commit to the good players here, “the grass is always greener”, but the grass has -never- been greener. Every time we trade away a good player we get sweet F all in return. This team would already be a contender if we didn’t excise our best wingers and Petry for nothing. Now, this year may be different because we have cap flexibility and money is tight league wide. But there still has to be a clear upgrade to make it worth moving on from these guys, and that isn’t obvious - especially since half the guys in the league won’t play here even if they are on the market.

I don’t think that’s quite a fair assessment. That team could be considered “loaded” with trade acquisitions given the role they played in the run. Peca, Spacek, Roloson, Samsonov, Pronger, Dvorak, Harvey were all a part of that unlikely success and some of the above were huge contributors.
 

Little Fury

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Someone called it a million dollar question, and that’s what it quite literally is. If rumors are correct and the Oilers are offering under 6M, are you willing to spend another million per season just to keep him?

Yes. Overpaying to keep good players is vastly preferable to the Oilers' usual approach of overpaying plugs like Chiasson, Kassian, Turris.

The Oilers need two top 9 F this offseason, why make the job harder by making it three?
 

Beerfish

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Apr 14, 2007
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Berry most important resign
Nuge 2nd most
Larrsson 3rd most important.

If it came down to choosing players from above I'd rather give most of the money slotted for RNH to Berry and then use the money slotted for Larsson to get another forward.

I know for sure this is NOT what Holland will do or what 90% of this forum wants. That would be my choice.
 

McTonyBrar

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Apr 2, 2018
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I had the same thought. Have no idea what is being conveyed in that comment. Sounds like a petulant 8 year old.

Good try Stoneman. You sound like a child in almost every post as well. You wake up hating on the Oilers and that's how you sleep. Sounds childish as well
 

Shathar

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I don't put much stock into what hockey players/coaches/GMs say in interviews. Well, usually.

If Nuge is truly as checked-out as he appears to be to us some nights, no one would know better than his coach. If we do resign him, I think it will be for less than what he is making now. Part of me would like to see him move on, not because I dislike the player, but because I have a feeling he might want to.

If he stays/signs, we still need another type of player in the top 6.
 

McJadeddog

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It's really a matter of if Holland can find better replacements for RNH and Larsson. There isn't much out there in terms of quality players in free agency so I think they are both signed. I don't want to have to let RNH walk just to bring in a player like Tatar.

This is the million dollar question. Everybody who is like "I want player X gone!". Okay great, sure, you might even have a great point that player X is bad, or not good for the mix of the team, or isn't tough enough, or doesn't score enough, or whatever your point about the player is. But the immediate problem is that you need to be able to replace that player, which is always the hardest part. It's *really easy* to not sign a player, and it is *really hard* to sign a player (especially without massively overpaying for a UFA). I would argue that this holds true for all NHL teams, but it especially holds true for teams like the Oilers (Canadian fishbowl market, higher taxes than the states, smaller city without many things for young millionaires/wives to do, longer/harder travel schedule, etc). If a team like the Oilers is going to let serviceable players walk as UFAs, that is fine, but then need to know, not hope, KNOW, who the have for replacements. In fact, you should be signing the replacement first, or trading for him, and then letting the internal player walk, not the other way around. Too often in Oilers history have we let a player walk and said something along the lines of "we'll replace him on the free market", and then come up completely empty.
 

CravenMH

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It's a tough one because it's seems clear that the coaches loves RNH and also that both Connor and Leon like RNH. That puts Holland in a tough position.

However, I do think RNH needs to go if Holland can get either a tougher, 2-way third-line center or a really good winger.
Yeah it will be tough but the end goal is not to create some sort of country club, it's to win hockey games. They shouldn't really care if players dislike each other so long as they compete hard while they're on the ice and play up to their contract expectations.
 

McJadeddog

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Sep 25, 2003
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In the last 10 years have we ever signed or traded for a player better than RNH? Does this change magically this season just cause? Oiler fans have always had a hard time admitting but it should be obvious no one good wants to come here. So if your gonna run RNH out of town, better be sure someone good is replacing him. And better be sure that player will stay for awhile.

Nuge is still a good, versatile player. Much better than pretty much all free agents that would consider here. Find the right appropriate value for him, keep him, and add.

Yeah, I'm struggling to think of the last UFA we signed that was on par with RNH. Maybe Souray? He was really good before his injury trouble.
 
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McJadeddog

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I laugh so hard when I read stuff like this. “Well he plays well here in the past and he’s good so just pay up to keep him because they don’t need to change a good thing”. You think Buffalo isn’t regretting every day that Jeff Skinner contract, an eerily similar career path to what RNH is on? Skinner bent Buffalo over and they felt like they wouldn’t be able to bring in his calibre of player that fit well with Eichel, or wouldn’t have a better option. Bigger difference is Skinner at least produced to that point with Eichel.

For every “oh you don’t think we would have wanted to keep Eberle look how good he is” there is a Skinner on the other side. You also do realize that Eberle signed his UFA deal for 5.5M? You don’t think if RNH was willing to stay for 5.5M Holland wouldn’t have the paper work done.


Someone called it a million dollar question, and that’s what it quite literally is. If rumors are correct and the Oilers are offering under 6M, are you willing to spend another million per season just to keep him?

A few problems here.

You are comparing an upcoming RNH contract (wherever he signs) to what is probably the worst contract in the entire league, and expecting people to still take your points seriously after that. Just be aware of how hyperbolic that comparison is.

RNH might sign for 5.5 or 6, or maybe even some team signs him for 6.5 (which I would consider an overpay at this point). But the fact that he hasn't signed by now doesn't really mean anything. Holland might not want to sign any UFA players until after the Seattle draft, which would be, by far, the smartest strategy he could employ. Or it might mean that RNH has the rumored 5x5.5 offer on the table from Holland and wants to see if any other team will do something crazy in UFA season and offer 6.75-7, because he eventually signs for 5.75 after negotiations. You and I literally have NO IDEA whether he will sign for that, wants to sign for that, or why he hasn't signed for that. It is baseless speculation.
 
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McJadeddog

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Sep 25, 2003
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Berry most important resign
Nuge 2nd most
Larrsson 3rd most important.

If it came down to choosing players from above I'd rather give most of the money slotted for RNH to Berry and then use the money slotted for Larsson to get another forward.

I know for sure this is NOT what Holland will do or what 90% of this forum wants. That would be my choice.

I have them in the exact opposite order, lol. Barrie will be overpriced the second he signs his deal, and is turning 30 this summer. We have a rough replacement for him with Bouchard, who will cost 15% of the cap hit that Barrie will. We have no such internal replacements for either RNH or Larsson. Unless you think we are magically signing Hamilton, but if that is the case, we shouldn't be signing Barrie or Larsson, as we couldn't afford them (Hamilton will likely sign a deal almost as expensive as Barrie + Larsson)
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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Feb 19, 2003
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Humans are subject to recency memory and Nuge play is subject to comprehending this fact. He's a player that is speciously careful to play much better at the end. But had about as empty a season as its possible for an alleged star player to have. Nuge was a ghost in the first couple games, had a good shift here and there. But he made a concerted effort to be better at times in games 3,4, but still only picking his spots. The thing is his star contemporaries bring a level and standard of play virtually every game. Nuge is a great talent, that seldom uses it. The brilliant goal he scored is still part of his potential, but how often do we see him unwrap something like that. It was the best goal he scored all year. Predictably at the end. nuge would hope he's remembered for that rather than his non stellar play most of the season.

Nuge instincts are about avoiding reprisal. He's the player that will be involved in a scoring play late in a 5-1 loss. Putting in a token appearance. Or show up towards the end of a series that had already gone the other way. Or show up into a season last season on NYE after doing little before it. My harsher take is he pretends at caring, at being loyal, about being a "solid defensive player". As others have noted I can't imagine the double take for new players coming in here and seeing Nuge have a letter. Its like immediate permission to do less here.

Interesting take on the player's character. I think there are reasonable counter points as well.

For recency, I think it's fair to say that a Game 1 DRY line had a solid game by advance statistics but didn't get it done. The coach opted to switch strategy to stack McDavid, Draisaitl with Puljujarvi to win and it didn't work out. Where you see a ghost in the series, I saw a coach trust this player to hold up a deeper team to at least evens while looking to his stack line to win. The final game Nugent Hopkins started with a ten game NHLer and Kassian (six regular season points between them). Tight game, bench shortened, the coach plays Nugent Hopkins a hair under 40 minutes within 4-5 of the team's two elites and contributes 2 points.

I believe the expression 'the players know.' If Nugent Hopkins was a low character, selfish or disinterested player, it is likely he would have been found out and traded during his long tenure here. The team's certainly moved out top players. But every coach and management group has consistently trusted the player for 20 minutes, all situational play. They speak positively about the player's character instead of dealing what would be a reasonable trade chip to change a perennial losing franchise. He took top line assignments for years on embarrassing bad teams against big, strong and elite Pacific Coast teams. His job was to saw off or better top lines with players like Getlaf, Kopitar, Thorton, Sedin. One year with a centre back up group of an overmatched 18 year old Draisaitl, two AHLers, and Boyd Gordon. Never shirk from any of these responsibilities. Adapted his game when the Oiler kiddy corp was chronically caved in trying to run and gun against better teams. Didn't bitch or ask for a trade when help wasn't arriving and bumbling management continued to f*** up bad teams. Unlike many top players might, he did not sulk or pout when this team assbackwards itself into a winning a generational player and having a second high pick emerge into a top five league talent. Team first, contribute however he's directed to and without complaint. Conversely, Taylor Hall when injuries needed him to be asked to change to play centre, quickly and vocally complained his way back to win after a couple tough outings at this tougher position.

Nugent Hopkins is an imperfect player. He's survived a systemic losing culture and is now a complimentary player on a team that might have a chance to become a great team. He'll never be a physical player and he's never been an emotional player neither which define his character. No signs of unbridled greed or selfishness. This is a cross roads year where Holland has to make a massive improvement to this organization. It's a tough call on a core player who likely gets more money elsewhere. Not our decisions as fans to make. If he goes, I trust Holland's got the plan to replace him. But I don't see this person bereft of character. And I think 'the players know'.
 
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Nostradumbass

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Jan 1, 2007
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Poulin may be right but you’re completely wrong. The 05-06 team was loaded with long-term Edmonton guys most of whom we drafted and developed. A few trade acquisitions put that group over the top. The main problem in Edmonton for its entire existence has been failing to commit to the good players here, “the grass is always greener”, but the grass has -never- been greener. Every time we trade away a good player we get sweet F all in return. This team would already be a contender if we didn’t excise our best wingers and Petry for nothing. Now, this year may be different because we have cap flexibility and money is tight league wide. But there still has to be a clear upgrade to make it worth moving on from these guys, and that isn’t obvious - especially since half the guys in the league won’t play here even if they are on the market.
Imagine locking in Petry for $4-5MM, therefore not needing to trade Hall for Larsson, not needing to sign Lucic, and allowing our prospects like Schultz, Puljujarvi, etc. to play in the correct positions in the lineup.
 

Behind Enemy Lines

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Good try Stoneman. You sound like a child in almost every post as well. You wake up hating on the Oilers and that's how you sleep. Sounds childish as well

No offence but name calling Poulin isn't a strong point to make. It's good to get outside the bubble opinions and perceptions of this team. I think Poulin's take is pretty simplistic of a coin flip series but the guy's credibility is strong as a long standing NHL captain, a guy's whose coached at a high level and worked in a senior NHL management role. The Oilers have been one of the league's worst franchises for over a decade so it is far from immune from criticism. Very good imo to hear strong expert based opinions that don't think think the Oilers are manifest destined to ooze out of the primordial swamp of mediocrity.
 

Aerchon

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Jul 20, 2011
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So basically just fire Holland cause he sucks. That's all you are really saying.

You hope Holland doesn't try and make the team better because he sucks.

Ill be 100% honest and say I was not intentionally implying that he should be fired but if you look at his work here and his most recent years in Detroit firing him would be the safest course of action. He does suck and I'd be very curious what the pro Holland group can rest their hats on after that humiliating sweep and consecutive massive playoff disappointments.

I know the old boys club dropped the interview process to bring in their best bud so Holland is not going to be fired any time soon, so it would be best if he did as little as possible to waste even more assets than he has chasing his long shots and has-beens.

But my original point was much more that whether Holland or someone else is at the helm the team is better off conserving assets and avoiding short sighted buyouts. Primarily build through the draft. Until Lucic/Neal, Sekera, Koskinen, and Kassian are off the books or drastically turn around their careers the Oilers are in tough to do anything. Thats an incredible amount of dead cap space to work around and you can not blame Chiarelli for all that. If anything gets done it is going to take a lot of creativity and likely involve fleecing an opposing GM or two.
 

McTonyBrar

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Apr 2, 2018
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No offence but name calling Poulin isn't a strong point to make. It's good to get outside the bubble opinions and perceptions of this team. I think Poulin's take is pretty simplistic of a coin flip series but the guy's credibility is strong as a long standing NHL captain, a guy's whose coached at a high level and worked in a senior NHL management role. The Oilers have been one of the league's worst franchises for over a decade so it is far from immune from criticism. Very good imo to hear strong expert based opinions that don't think think the Oilers are manifest destined to ooze out of the primordial swamp of mediocrity.
I'm not questioning his history or how great he's been. I agree it was childish for me to say that but it was as a joke that's all
 
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Behind Enemy Lines

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I'm not questioning his history or how great he's been. I agree it was childish for me to say that but it was as a joke that's all

Haha. No worries, I notice you can run hot at times. ;) Didn't mean to jump on you. I like when posting bring different, credible expert opinions to this board. I'd never had heard this podcast if OP hadn't brought it forward. Huge off season and interesting to see how the Oilers are viewed by outside the bubble boys!
 

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