Dave Hakstol

[Freddy The Fog]

Anyone recall how good the defense was when AMac was out this past year?

 

[deadhead]

Sanheim should have been over Hagg the entire time.

But it’s really not even that they shouldn’t have been used, it’s that they shouldnt have been used the amount that they were used.

For example, Manning, Hagg, and MacDonald were all used more than Sanheim or Gudas and Filppula was used more than Patrick.

And on top of the amount they were used, it’s HOW they were used that’s the biggest issue because it best displays how flawed Hakstols player evaluations are. These guys were used as top PKers, to hold leads at the end of games, and just generally in a way that proves they were used out of preference instead of necessity.

Just look at how Filppula was 1C in elimination games of the playoffs... there’s no excuse for that. In the last two playoff games, he only played less than Giroux and Couturier. In those same two final playoff games, MacDonald and Manning were 2nd and 3rd ON THE ENTIRE TEAM in playing time...

Just example after example. I could keep going, but I think you get the point.

Playoff TOI:

Couts 22:09 - Patrick 16:38 - Filppula 16:08 - Lehtera 10:46
Gudas 19:18 - MacDonald 18:49 - Manning 17:38 - Sanheim 16:30 - Hagg 11:50
TOI was distorted by special teams, Giroux 14:06, Voracek 13:44, Simmonds 12:37, TK 12:04, Raffl 12:01 ES - the only five forwards to get more than 10 minutes
Minutes were limited for Read, Laughton, Lindblom, Lehtera, Weise, Weal.

They won game 5 and it was Gudas who was the problem in game 6.
And the Flyers had the best PK in the playoffs facing the best power play, except for the goalies, who were last in S%, just like the regular season.

As usual, it comes down to Striiker's homoerotic obsession with the good looking, but bad scoring (worst PP/60 other than Hagg) Travis Sanheim.

No "miracle" coach was going to beat the Penguins with this group of players.
Not when your goalies combine for a .852 S%.

Best players xGFrel -
Hagg +37.78 (SSS, but I had to put him on the list just to rile up Striiker )
Couts +18.79
Simmonds +13.8
Provorov +12.7
Ghost +6.27
Laughton +5.01
Voracek +1.19
Giroux -0.21
Sanheim -0.93
Raffl -1.35
TK -2.42
Patrick -2.67
MacDonald -5.24
Lindblom -7.38
Filppula -7.88
Read -9.41
Gudas -9.84
Manning -14.88
Lehtera -15.65

 

[Prongo]

Playoff TOI:

Couts 22:09 - Patrick 16:38 - Filppula 16:08 - Lehtera 10:46
Gudas 19:18 - MacDonald 18:49 - Manning 17:38 - Sanheim 16:30 - Hagg 11:50
TOI was distorted by special teams, Giroux 14:06, Voracek 13:44, Simmonds 12:37, TK 12:04, Raffl 12:01 ES - the only five forwards to get more than 10 minutes
Minutes were limited for Read, Laughton, Lindblom, Lehtera, Weise, Weal.

They won game 5 and it was Gudas who was the problem in game 6.
And the Flyers had the best PK in the playoffs facing the best power play, except for the goalies, who were last in S%, just like the regular season.

As usual, it comes down to Striiker's homoerotic obsession with the good looking, but bad scoring (worst PP/60 other than Hagg) Travis Sanheim.

No "miracle" coach was going to beat the Penguins with this group of players.
Not when your goalies combine for a .852 S%.

Best players xGFrel -
Hagg +37.78 (SSS, but I had to put him on the list just to rile up Striiker )
Couts +18.79
Simmonds +13.8
Provorov +12.7
Ghost +6.27
Laughton +5.01
Voracek +1.19
Giroux -0.21
Sanheim -0.93
Raffl -1.35
TK -2.42
Patrick -2.67
MacDonald -5.24
Lindblom -7.38
Filppula -7.88
Read -9.41
Gudas -9.84
Manning -14.88
Lehtera -15.65

Whats any of this have to do with being gay. Douchebag

 

[Rebels57]

Whats any of this have to do with being gay. *****ebag

Hopefully that comment was reported.

 

[hatcher]

Same old shit with this team no leaders that you can trust. 6 to 9 yrs away.

 

[deadhead]

Just making fun of Striiker's obsession with Sanheim's minutes, as if Sanheim's rookie performance was similar to Ghost.
There's nothing derogatory in that term, you can find thousands of academic papers on the subject of male-male romantic obsession.

The eyes and stats agree on three things:
1) this wasn't a very talented team overall
2) Giroux and Voracek did not step up against the Penguins.
3) the goalies sucked

Quibbling over a couple of minutes of TOI between players is grasping at straws, nor did replacing Sanheim with Hagg cause them to lose game 6.
For the most part the good players played as much as possible, the bad players as little as possible.
The young players were shaky, which is normal in the NHL for 20-21 year old players in their first playoff appearance.

The Penguins were a much better team, more talented, deeper and far more playoff hardened.
The young Flyer players got some playoff experience which will be good for their development down the road.

GET OVER IT!

 

[Striiker]

Playoff TOI:

Couts 22:09 - Patrick 16:38 - Filppula 16:08 - Lehtera 10:46
Gudas 19:18 - MacDonald 18:49 - Manning 17:38 - Sanheim 16:30 - Hagg 11:50
TOI was distorted by special teams, Giroux 14:06, Voracek 13:44, Simmonds 12:37, TK 12:04, Raffl 12:01 ES - the only five forwards to get more than 10 minutes
Minutes were limited for Read, Laughton, Lindblom, Lehtera, Weise, Weal.

They won game 5 and it was Gudas who was the problem in game 6.
And the Flyers had the best PK in the playoffs facing the best power play, except for the goalies, who were last in S%, just like the regular season.

As usual, it comes down to Striiker's homoerotic obsession with the good looking, but bad scoring (worst PP/60 other than Hagg) Travis Sanheim.

No "miracle" coach was going to beat the Penguins with this group of players.
Not when your goalies combine for a .852 S%.

Best players xGFrel -
Hagg +37.78 (SSS, but I had to put him on the list just to rile up Striiker )
Couts +18.79
Simmonds +13.8
Provorov +12.7
Ghost +6.27
Laughton +5.01
Voracek +1.19
Giroux -0.21
Sanheim -0.93
Raffl -1.35
TK -2.42
Patrick -2.67
MacDonald -5.24
Lindblom -7.38
Filppula -7.88
Read -9.41
Gudas -9.84
Manning -14.88
Lehtera -15.65

My homoerotic obsession is with anyone who helps the team win, just like my hate obsession is with anyone who hurts the team.

Sanheim helps
Hagg hurts

Patrick helps
Filppula hurts

And so on.

Nobody is saying Hakstol sucks because of the team losing, it’s the way he helps the team lose that shows how bad he is. The fact that the coach plays favorites with the bad players proves he’s a bad coach. There’s no possible situation where they’re the better option, so that isn’t an excuse.

Sanheim is far from a finished product, nobody said he was perfect. But he’s already clearly better than Mac, Hagg, and Mutt. If any advanced stat tells you different then the stat is either useless or missing context. The eye test makes it obvious enough.

 

[deadhead]

The eye test shows you Sanheim is more TALENTED, but last year he was a shaky player, both in the NHL and the AHL playoffs.
Which doesn't bother me, I expect Patrick, Sanheim, TK and Lindblom to take big steps this year, and will be disappointed if they don't, and we'll be far more prepared for the playoffs next spring. But they weren't ready for prime time.

Read, Filppula and Manning are gone, odds are Lehtera and Weise will be buried, Gudas will either get his mojo back or he'll be gone.
MacDonald will move down to the 3rd line and will probably be bought out next year if Hextall can't find a sucker.
That's your bottom of the roster, gone in a year.

 

[Beef Invictus]

@deadhead do you believe Raffl was superior to TK last year?

 

[Striiker]

Nope, it shows he's more effective.

He's better offensively, in transition, and defensively. It's obvious. Defensive effectiveness isn't 100% based on raw strength and physicality, as you and Hakstol want to believe. Being able to get the puck out of the zone and keeping it out is the best defense possible. None of those three garbage players can do it, but Sanheim can.

And again you expose your bias by trying to point out Sanheim's flaws while pretending the others don't have the same flaws, plus many more. I don't know if you think this dishonestly actually has a chance to trick people, but it doesn't.

We're lucky Hextall is removing these trash players because if he didn't, Hakstol would continue to overuse them. It isn't out of necessity, it's because he misjudges them and is a terrible coach.

 

[deadhead]

In what role?

In the playoffs, the two were pretty much equivalent, neither did much. CF and xGF were almost identical.

In the regular season, Giroux & Couts put up similar numbers with Raffl at RW as they did with TK.
with TK 33-19 GF-GA 54.5% Corsi
with Raffl 8-5 GF-GA 55.8% Corsi

TK is more talented and far more skilled, Raffl is "heavier" and more reliable.
The playoffs showed both their limitations, Raffl just isn't skilled enough and TK isn't ready to be the sparkplug of a line, he needed G & Couts to be effective.

This season we should be much deeper at forward, G/JVR/Lindblom/Raffl at LW, TK/Voracek/Simmonds/NAK or MV at RW.
The problem will be finding a 3C and 4C.

 

[Striiker]

Yeah, you can rely on Raffl to blow scoring chances TK would have buried. He adds nothing valuable to the top line.

Thankfully he's heavy though, since that's the entire reason he went to the top line. Great job by the idiot coach. I think typically coaches try to make the team better, not worse, but I guess he wants to be unique.

 

[renberg]

People see what they want to see. Its easy to put the blame for losing on the coaching staff just like it is way too easy to give it too much credit when it wins. DH is correct when he says that the Flyers weren't equal to Pittsburgh in talent that PO round. The Penguins took G and Vorachek out of the game; focused on running down Ghost; and took advantage of the poor and banged up Flyers goalies. Going forward it will be a different thing but in April, it was the Penguins series to win.
Sanheim struggled during the first part of the season; played better when he returned. The had his moments again in the POs. That is to be expected from young players. Hextall is right in his evaluation of Sanheim-he needs to get stronger so that he can handle the type of play that occurs in the POs.
Sure Filppula sucked but who was better? Read? Veccione? Vorobyov? Weal? The truth of the matter was at that point of the season, there weren't any better options. This was true with other players/positions as well. Patrick, Sanheim, TK and Lindblom were all in their first round of big boy hockey. The next time it will be different due to experience and physical growth.

 

[Rebels57]

People see what they want to see. Its easy to put the blame for losing on the coaching staff just like it is way too easy to give it too much credit when it wins. DH is correct when he says that the Flyers weren't equal to Pittsburgh in talent that PO round. The Penguins took G and Vorachek out of the game; focused on running down Ghost; and took advantage of the poor and banged up Flyers goalies. Going forward it will be a different thing but in April, it was the Penguins series to win.
Sanheim struggled during the first part of the season; played better when he returned. The had his moments again in the POs. That is to be expected from young players. Hextall is right in his evaluation of Sanheim-he needs to get stronger so that he can handle the type of play that occurs in the POs.
Sure Filppula sucked but who was better? Read? Veccione? Vorobyov? Weal? The truth of the matter was at that point of the season, there weren't any better options. This was true with other players/positions as well. Patrick, Sanheim, TK and Lindblom were all in their first round of big boy hockey. The next time it will be different due to experience and physical growth.

Patrick from Christmas until the end of the season, but he continued to get less ice time.

There are no excuses for Hakstol overplaying rancid garbage like Filppula and Maning.

 

[Striiker]

People see what they want to see. Its easy to put the blame for losing on the coaching staff just like it is way too easy to give it too much credit when it wins. DH is correct when he says that the Flyers weren't equal to Pittsburgh in talent that PO round. The Penguins took G and Vorachek out of the game; focused on running down Ghost; and took advantage of the poor and banged up Flyers goalies. Going forward it will be a different thing but in April, it was the Penguins series to win.
Sanheim struggled during the first part of the season; played better when he returned. The had his moments again in the POs. That is to be expected from young players. Hextall is right in his evaluation of Sanheim-he needs to get stronger so that he can handle the type of play that occurs in the POs.
Sure Filppula sucked but who was better? Read? Veccione? Vorobyov? Weal? The truth of the matter was at that point of the season, there weren't any better options. This was true with other players/positions as well. Patrick, Sanheim, TK and Lindblom were all in their first round of big boy hockey. The next time it will be different due to experience and physical growth.

As was already explained to you, the problem wasn’t Filppula being in the lineup, it’s how he was used in the lineup. Hakstol didn’t have to use him the way he did. He CHOSE to.

Not complicated.

Ignoring reality like Deadhead does only hurts your argument.

 

[renberg]

People see what they want to see. Some look for any reason to rip Hakstol. Filppula was used the way that he was due to injuries and roster depth. Was he played in a role that wasn't his best? Sure but who was going to take that place? Weal? Raffl? One of the Phantoms? Moving G back to center wouldn't have helped the rest of the forward lines. Recall that Flip did pop in a goal to help win game 5 of the Penguin series so he wasn't horrendous in that place.

 

[Rebels57]

People see what they want to see. Some look for any reason to rip Hakstol. Filppula was used the way that he was due to injuries and roster depth. Was he played in a role that wasn't his best? Sure but who was going to take that place? Weal? Raffl? One of the Phantoms? Moving G back to center wouldn't have helped the rest of the forward lines. Recall that Flip did pop in a goal to help win game 5 of the Penguin series so he wasn't horrendous in that place.

So just ignore that I just said Patrick played better in the 2nd half and still wasn't getting as much ice time most nights?

Hakpologists are great at sticking to their narrative and never deviating from it despite the overwelming weight of facts contradicting them. Much like politicians in that way.

 

[Striiker]

People see what they want to see. Some look for any reason to rip Hakstol. Filppula was used the way that he was due to injuries and roster depth. Was he played in a role that wasn't his best? Sure but who was going to take that place? Weal? Raffl? One of the Phantoms? Moving G back to center wouldn't have helped the rest of the forward lines. Recall that Flip did pop in a goal to help win game 5 of the Penguin series so he wasn't horrendous in that place.

You're proving your first sentence correct by displaying your own ignorance on the topic.

This has been explained to you multiple times but you're ignoring reality because it kills your pathetic defense.

Filppula wasn't used the way he was out of necessity. That's fact.

 

[deadhead]

Patrick TOI
January: 13:12
February: 15:42
March: 15:35
April: 15:20
Playoffs: 16:38

PP: 1:49

Filppula TOI
January: 16:17
February: 15:06
March: 15:07
April: 16:45 (4 games)
Playoffs: 16:08

PK: 1:17
PP: 1:32

It's hard to justify more than 16 minutes a night for Patrick, given that he wasn't 100%, was only 19 years old, and hadn't worked out over the summer or pre-season. Unless your goal is to injure your future franchise player.

 

[renberg]

You're proving your first sentence correct by displaying your own ignorance on the topic.

This has been explained to you multiple times but you're ignoring reality because it kills your pathetic defense.

Filppula wasn't used the way he was out of necessity. That's fact.

I am still waiting for what you would have done differently than Hakstol did. When one looks at the roster that he was given, in some cases he made chicken salad out of chicken ****. Seriously look at what he had three seasons ago (half of those guys are gone); in '16-17 (10 out of 32 are gone) and last year (7of the 32 are out of the system). There is more than the usual garbage on those rosters. It wasn't much but he did make the POs in two of those three seasons in a tough conference.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Varsity is a bottom of the barrel coach in this league.

Take every team in the NHL and fire the coaches.

Where do you think Hakstol would be selected if teams were allowed to “draft a coach”?

He would be near the bottom and rightfully so. f*** him.

 

[FlyerNutter]

I am still waiting for what you would have done differently than Hakstol did. When one looks at the roster that he was given, in some cases he made chicken salad out of chicken ****. Seriously look at what he had three seasons ago (half of those guys are gone); in '16-17 (10 out of 32 are gone) and last year (7of the 32 are out of the system). There is more than the usual garbage on those rosters. It wasn't much but he did make the POs in two of those three seasons in a tough conference.

Taking Konecny off the top line and putting him on the 3rd against the Penguins was asinine. Expecting him to carry the turds he was playing with was never going to work, yet he stuck to it.

Playing your goaltenders into the ground is also something he continuously does.

I don’t require him to be animated like Laviolette but the man refuses to take a timeout to try to stabilize his team.

Obsession with turds because they “work hard”.

I realize Lappy runs the PK but Hak does have influence there. He continually seems to be content with his club playing a passive box.

 

[renberg]

Taking Konecny off the top line and putting him on the 3rd against the Penguins was asinine. Expecting him to carry the turds he was playing with was never going to work, yet he stuck to it.

Playing your goaltenders into the ground is also something he continuously does.

I don’t require him to be animated like Laviolette but the man refuses to take a timeout to try to stabilize his team.

Obsession with turds because they “work hard”.

I realize Lappy runs the PK but Hak does have influence there. He continually seems to be content with his club playing a passive box.

1. Maybe so but Hakstol was trying to spread the offensive talent around. The Penguins had controlled the Flyers top line.
2. He did do that but Neuvirth caused that by being hurt all of the time.
3. Coaches attitudes do percolate down to the players. Having a guy freak out behind the bench might not have a positive impact on his players, especially the young ones. The use of TOs could be a valid criticism. Sometimes his line match ups puzzle me. Then again, he knows what the mood is on the bench; who's hurt and who isn't. Its not like he's going out there to lose the games.
4. The turds play because until now, there hasn't been anyone better to push them off of the ice.
5. The Lappy problem puzzles me. The PK is not up to snuff. It sure looks like the system doesn't fit the players but then maybe there isn't a system that would fit some of these PKers. The bottom six forwards and a couple of D-men don't look like they're capable of doing the job. Things do shape up when G and Provorov go out there on the kill but you can't use them all night.

 

[FlyerNutter]

1. Maybe so but Hakstol was trying to spread the offensive talent around. The Penguins had controlled the Flyers top line.
2. He did do that but Neuvirth caused that by being hurt all of the time.
3. Coaches attitudes do percolate down to the players. Having a guy freak out behind the bench might not have a positive impact on his players, especially the young ones. The use of TOs could be a valid criticism. Sometimes his line match ups puzzle me. Then again, he knows what the mood is on the bench; who's hurt and who isn't. Its not like he's going out there to lose the games.
4. The turds play because until now, there hasn't been anyone better to push them off of the ice.
5. The Lappy problem puzzles me. The PK is not up to snuff. It sure looks like the system doesn't fit the players but then maybe there isn't a system that would fit some of these PKers. The bottom six forwards and a couple of D-men don't look like they're capable of doing the job. Things do shape up when G and Provorov go out there on the kill but you can't use them all night.

Fair response. It’s incredibly refreshing to see good hockey talk.

HB became a cesspool.

 

[Striiker]

I am still waiting for what you would have done differently than Hakstol did. When one looks at the roster that he was given, in some cases he made chicken salad out of chicken ****. Seriously look at what he had three seasons ago (half of those guys are gone); in '16-17 (10 out of 32 are gone) and last year (7of the 32 are out of the system). There is more than the usual garbage on those rosters. It wasn't much but he did make the POs in two of those three seasons in a tough conference.

I wouldn't have played TK in the bottom 6 for half of the year when it was beyond obvious he was being wasted.
I wouldn't have had MacDonald, Hagg, and Manning as our #3, #4, and #5 defensemen in ice time per game played.
I wouldn't have used Filppula as our 2C when Patrick was clearly playing at a higher level
I wouldn't have put Filppula on the top line or MacDonald on the top pair in the playoffs.
I wouldn't have used Filppula, Lehtera, Manning, and MacDonald together on the PK
I wouldn't have used those same garbage players to close out nearly every single game
I wouldn't have cemented Hagg into the lineup over superior players
I wouldn't have taken TK off the top line to make it "heavier".

Do I need to keep going?

There's no argument you can make to excuse his usage of these players. He had better options, he chose not to use them. End of debate.

You can keep saying he had no choice, but all that does is expose your own lack of knowledge. Pay closer attention to the team and you would have seen the alternatives.