Dan Girardi: Part IV

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I am of the opinion Sather always liked Boyle, heck he liked the whole 2004 Tampa cup team, at least as much can be seen by the sheer amount of players and one coach he ended up putting on his team. Plus he was signed on the first day of UFA.

Im of the opinion that Stralman and his agent were likely strong arming him, and Sather didn't want to be left with a hole on the right side, so he turned to Boyle.

Was it hasty? Yes. Was it the wrong decision? Yes. But I have to believe there were mitigating factors that led to the Rangers not re-signing Stralman.

 

[Off Sides]

The Girardi/Stralman/Boyle stuff is simplified to a great degree. Nobody knows the real story of what went on behind the scenes, particularly when it comes to the negotiations with Stralman. Florida has no income tax, perhaps his agent came back with a higher demand to remain in NY? We don't know. People like to portray it as a simple decision the Rangers blew, but the reality is nobody has the full stories of the politics and demands behind the scenes.

Fair enough, accept the only account I can go by is what was reported

Stralman, meanwhile, told the Daily News earlier this week that there may be a chance his agent and the Rangers begin talking extension during the Olympic break; however, he insisted that since the beginning of the season he would have considered any in-season contract talks a "bonus," and so he will not expect anything to happen until it does.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/h...-takes-effect-article-1.1606272#ixzz2swX6WKv4

“There was zero negotiation, which was very surprising and very disappointing,†Stralman said of last summer, when he waited in vain for the Rangers to make a counteroffer on his expiring contract

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/17/s...an-helped-tampa-bay-to-a-fast-start.html?_r=0

The New York Rangers have been on the lookout for a top-four, right-handed defenseman and a source told me Tuesday that the Blueshirts have interest in veteran Dan Boyle from the Sharks. There’s an obvious connection there, with Rangers head coach John Tortorella having coached Boyle in Tampa Bay when the Lightning won the Stanley Cup in 2004.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ther-teams-who-should-pursue-sharks-dan-boyle

Boyle has perpetually been a rumored target for the Rangers over the years. Although he’s not my first choice, I wouldn’t be shocked if Sather kicked the tires or even pursued him this summer

http://savebyrichter.com/boyle-unlikely-to-sign-with-islanders-start-the-rangers-rumors/

To me that sure looks like the Rangers decided they would rather go a different direction and Boyle was it.

 

[Off Sides]

Most of the better UFAs get signed the first day, no?

The Rangers signed Tanner Glass 3-4 hours into UFA at an absurd price and let B. Boyle walk. Did they choose Glass over Boyle too?

Brain Boyle stated he wanted to go play where he'd have a bigger role or some nonsense.

 

[Off Sides]

If Boyle hadn't lost a step, he wouldn't have been available at a price the Rangers could afford. I would have preferred the Boyle deal to have been for a single year, but that was the price you paid for having him at all.

The term has to play a big role in this conversation. It's literally the biggest factor. The Rangers proved last year that Stralman's contribution to the team was replaceable. That was the gamble the team took and it was borne out. Stralman was due a raise. At the time, they knew that in the near future, Staal was due a raise. That Brassard was due a raise. That Zuccarello was due a raise. That Stepan was due a raise. That Hagelin was due a raise. That Kreider would likely be due a raise.

Stralman was a cap casualty, though a preemptive one, as opposed to one after the fact in Hagelin. They looked at the roster and saw Stralman as the most expendable player who was due a raise in the coming seasons. To this point, the decision has been borne out by the team's record.

And yet here we are now, Hagelin is gone too, why can't we just be honest about our opinions, Sather wanted Boyle, did not like Stralman being so laid back, did not like that he would not sign his initial offer and would not negotiate above it.

Sather always liked Boyle and the Tampa team, so they made those choices regardless of assets management or pretty much anything else and used the guise of shorter contract and Power Play presence to sell it.

 

[True Blue]

1. Yeah it's pretty much established that Vatanen was on the table for Girardi.

How so?

2. So you agree NYR would have an option if they kept Stralman. Great.

But Sather chose not to.

3. I meant acquiring Boychuk before he even became an Islanders. As in, when Boston was in cap hell and was debating whom to move. Petry absolutely is good and the stats back it up.

How are you acquiring him? And how good Petry is is up for debate.

 

[Tawnos]

And yet here we are now, Hagelin is gone too, why can't we just be honest about our opinions, Sather wanted Boyle, did not like Stralman being so laid back, did not like that he would not sign his initial offer and would not negotiate above it.

Sather always liked Boyle and the Tampa team, so they made those choices regardless of assets management or pretty much anything else and used the guise of shorter contract and Power Play presence to sell it.

Yes, I think Boyle was the target from the moment the Rangers made the decision to not resign Stralman. I think they made the decision primarily because Stralman was looking for a long term deal. The fact that they never negotiated with him indicates to me that the dollar value of his contract wasn't the overriding factor for the team. Stralman wanted a long term deal and the Rangers weren't willing to give it to him. The fact that they had a viable short term contract target in Dan Boyle likely made the decision easier. Like BRB likes to bring up, you've gotta have that plan to replace a player.

The point here, though, is that this entire thought process was essentially independent of whether or not to resign Girardi. That decision was likely made before they were even looking at whether to keep Stralman.

 

[TheRightWay]

How so?

Multiple outlets, including Boomer, who nailed the St. Louis trade, and Brooks, reported it. Seems legit to me.

But Sather chose not to.

Correct. So the Rangers did have one, of many, alternatives to Girardi and ignored it.

How are you acquiring him? And how good Petry is is up for debate.

The same way the Islanders did. A trade. We can debate how good Petry is, but he certainly is better than Girardi and on a cheaper contract at that.

 

[Tawnos]

Petry isn't better than Girardi, even if Girardi is diminished to a 2nd pair D

 

[TheRightWay]

Petry isn't better than Girardi, even if Girardi is diminished to a 2nd pair D

And here we go in circles again. All the evidence points to Petry being significantly better than Girardi. You're going to counter with an argument that essentially boils down to "he's not because I say he's not."

 

[haveandare]

Again, you are misunderstanding the logic. Sather correctly assessed that replacing Stralman with another puck mover wouldn't hurt the team's record. Although, a team's record is the absolute best reflection of the quality of the team's play. You are what your record says you are.

You could make the argument that 2014 was a better team, but the reality is much more likely that the two teams were equal.

Ok, but the goal wasn't to fall short again, the goal was to win. So moves that were made solely to not lose ground were not wise and it's not quite right to say a move was a success because the team didn't get worse.

 

[Tawnos]

Ok, but the goal wasn't to fall short again, the goal was to win. So moves that were made solely to not lose ground were not wise and it's not quite right to say a move was a success because the team didn't get worse.

Think about what I said in context with the whole conversation, not just a single clarifying post.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I thought all of the Vatanen speculation came from Boomer literally tweeting "Vatanen." What else was there besides that?

Here's the tweet:



I mean if you look at the dates of the tweet and the Girardi extension, maybe you could get a sense that there were some trade talks, but we're really reaching here.

 

[TheTakedown]

I thought all of the Vatanen speculation came from Boomer literally tweeting "Vatanen." What else was there besides that?

before that he had called the MSL trade solely on his own and it happened. Boomer's source was Richards, and I'm pretty sure Richards had a clue in on what was happening in the front office.

 

[Raspewtin]

Petry isn't better than Girardi, even if Girardi is diminished to a 2nd pair D

he absolutely is better.

 

[Tawnos]

And here we go in circles again. All the evidence points to Petry being significantly better than Girardi. You're going to counter with an argument that essentially boils down to "he's not because I say he's not."

There's nothing objective about this conversation from any of the perspectives. Isn't that pretty much what we are all saying? The only difference is a single layer of disputable statistics.

I'm confident in my own ability to evaluate players. The real difference in our opinions boils down to how we weight what we see in terms of what we value.

 

[Mac n Gs]

before that he had called the MSL trade solely on his own and it happened. Boomer's source was Richards, and I'm pretty sure Richards had a clue in on what was happening in the front office.

Yeah, I always had a feeling that Richards was the source of his insider info. I can still understand why management would be hesitant to pull the trigger on a deal like that. It was a huge risk at a time when we were fighting to make the playoffs. We only had 68 points that far into the season, with the Flyers and Caps right on our heels, as well as Pittsburgh having a 16 point lead on us.

 

[Off Sides]

...

The point here, though, is that this entire thought process was essentially independent of whether or not to resign Girardi. That decision was likely made before they were even looking at whether to keep Stralman.

That much I agree with. Girardi was not being let go, and people did in fact like his contract for the most part.

The Rangers making the right choice concerning Boyle and Stralman, that is where I disagree. But at least I find it plausible that perhaps Stralman asked for more from the Rangers than he did from Tampa, yet I do not think the Rangers ever even negotiated it, because they already had their eyes on Boyle not because they had a long term cap plan.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I'd take Girardi over Petry for the upcoming playoff run...experience as a top pair and durability...If only Dan had Petry's mobility...he'd be a pretty damn good dman

Petry's greatest asset is his mobility but he's still a 2nd pairing guy until he proves otherwise

 

[ZiGOODejad]

I've said numerous times if we could move Girardi with a + to acquire a defensiveman that can actually keep up with Mac and make macs minutes a little easier on him. I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

[JohnC]

Patrick Kearns wrote an article on aging defensemen with Wade Redden. It was pretty geared toward the Rangers and talked about Girardi, and briefly Staal and Boyle.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/03/nhl-defense-ageing-bodies#

And he didn't even use advanced stats

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That article falls flat on its face trying to use a "demotion" as its argument when he's now been promoted again.

Its been 10 ****ing games. How ****ing stupid are some people? Besides, Girardi's been much better the last few games.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Girardi's been demoted from top duty over the past few games.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Patrick Kearns wrote an article on aging defensemen with Wade Redden. It was pretty geared toward the Rangers and talked about Girardi, and briefly Staal and Boyle.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/03/nhl-defense-ageing-bodies#

And he didn't even use advanced stats

Funny this article is in the English Guardian. Didn't know they were into hockey. Interesting read.

My impression was that defensemen hit their peak later than forwards.

 

[haveandare]

That article falls flat on its face trying to use a "demotion" as its argument when he's now been promoted again.

Its been 10 ****ing games. How ****ing stupid are some people? Besides, Girardi's been much better the last few games.

He's played first pairing minutes exclusively for years. Him being demoted with any regularity is an interesting development.

And the writer isn't stupid, it's their job to write. They can't hold off on doing their job because the season is young.

 

[eco's bones]

The Manchester (as in Manchester England) Guardian. As newspapers go---it's one of the better ones in the world but I've never read a ice hockey article from them before so............

Anyway there were persistent rumors about Redden having a cocaine addiction that contributed to his decline--however true---they were there and gives me pause to put too much relevance towards this story.