Confirmed with Link: Dainius Zubrus 1-Year, 2-Way

Timos Death Stare

Seek and Destroy
Aug 9, 2008
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Well sure speed and high IQ is a killer combo. But people get to focused on speed and only speed.

Right - Torrey Mitchell had speed. Mike Brown has speed.

Still, I do believe a team like Chicago is our "Detroit" of years past - they are built to beat a team like us. Sharks were chasing the play the whole game and while having Couture and Braun (and not the third line getting benched and not a third pairing of Mueller - Tennyson) may help, I still don't see us beating them in a series as-is.

Speed alone isn't the end-all be all, but team speed sure does help. I worry about Pavelski the most - guy looks like he's skating with his skates in cinder blocks sometimes.
 

hohosaregood

Banned
Sep 1, 2011
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Right - Torrey Mitchell had speed. Mike Brown has speed.

Still, I do believe a team like Chicago is our "Detroit" of years past - they are built to beat a team like us. Sharks were chasing the play the whole game and while having Couture and Braun (and not the third line getting benched and not a third pairing of Mueller - Tennyson) may help, I still don't see us beating them in a series as-is.

Speed alone isn't the end-all be all, but team speed sure does help. I worry about Pavelski the most - guy looks like he's skating with his skates in cinder blocks sometimes.

I think team speed's a completely different thing. A team can play fast without being fast up and down the lineup and vice versa.
 

OrrNumber4

Registered User
Jul 25, 2002
15,877
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Right - Torrey Mitchell had speed. Mike Brown has speed.

Still, I do believe a team like Chicago is our "Detroit" of years past - they are built to beat a team like us. Sharks were chasing the play the whole game and while having Couture and Braun (and not the third line getting benched and not a third pairing of Mueller - Tennyson) may help, I still don't see us beating them in a series as-is.

Speed alone isn't the end-all be all, but team speed sure does help. I worry about Pavelski the most - guy looks like he's skating with his skates in cinder blocks sometimes.

I don't think it is just Chicago's speed. They have numerous talented players, a great system that everyone buys into, and have noted versatility among their top players.
 

Timos Death Stare

Seek and Destroy
Aug 9, 2008
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CA
I don't think it is just Chicago's speed. They have numerous talented players, a great system that everyone buys into, and have noted versatility among their top players.

Are those all things that are accentuated even more by speed + skill? Sharks have numerous talented players, they have a good system (not great - I believe they have a real big problem with breaking out of the zone), and have a ton of versatility - see Hertl coming up to center the 2nd, Pavs being a center, Marleau being a center, being able to mix/match and juggle lines.

You basically described a slightly better team than the Sharks but the biggest difference maker is the combo of speed and skill.
 

OrrNumber4

Registered User
Jul 25, 2002
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Are those all things that are accentuated even more by speed + skill? Sharks have numerous talented players, they have a good system (not great - I believe they have a real big problem with breaking out of the zone), and have a ton of versatility - see Hertl coming up to center the 2nd, Pavs being a center, Marleau being a center, being able to mix/match and juggle lines.

You basically described a slightly better team than the Sharks but the biggest difference maker is the combo of speed and skill.

More speed plus skill always helps.

But it isn't just versatility in terms of positioning. It is versatility in the way players play and adapt.

Overall, at least under TMac, the Sharks approached every game the T-Mac way...conservative play, focus on zone time and puck control, throw shots on net (low, going for rebounds), and produce by cycling the puck and surgically wasting defense systems. As soon as they came across a team that could break their cycle, clear away junk in front, and/or press the play, the Sharks would crumble. No adaption, no change.

Joe Thornton is a fantastic playmaker and a very good two-way forward. But if you ask him to play a stifling, defensive, game, can he? Can he be the goalscorer on a line? Can he screen a goalie and clean up garbage in front? Will he succeed in a game plan with the Sharks playing a up-tempo, North-South, skating-intensive game? If the Sharks focused more on holding the puck vs. passing it, does Thornton have the stick skills to effectively enter and navigate the zone?

Those kind of questions plague the rest of the team. Other than Marleau, not a single top-forward has the speed to play a fast, up-tempo kind of game. Marleau lacks physicality, high-end playmaking, and struggles in creating his own space. Couture is the only forward with good stick skills (if that), and Thornton is the only one who can consistently win board battles. None of the top-6 can screen a goalie or thrive in an intensely physical game.

On defense, Burns thrives with a very good partner, on a certain side, and in offensive situations. Vlasic thrives only when he isn't in the offensive zone. Braun pretty much struggles when he isn't with Vlasic.

Even with their faults, I would probably say that Couture, Vlasic, and Pavelski are versatile enough for secondary players. But that is just it: they are secondary players. If you look at Chicago, everything I questioned Joe Thornton about, Toews can do. Kane is pretty much a swiss army knife in the offensive zone. Hossa is like Marleau with great stick skills. You go look at their secondary and tertiary forwards, and you see the same. Keith, Seabrook, and Hjalmarsson play well with almost anyone. In previous years, they've had multiple D-men who could play the PP and PK. Rozsival is the same as long as he gets easy minutes.

As a coach, that gives you tremendous flexibility. It lets you easily adjust your strategy against multiple teams, it gives you a safety net against a struggling player, and it lets you line juggle with some confidence.

That is the model the Sharks need to emulate going forwards...but I digress
 

Episkey

Nitrox
Mar 12, 2013
4,197
12
California
How has Zubrus been progressing?
He's been better than I thought he would be. Currently playing on the top line with Thornton and Pavelski, but clearly does not belong. Injuries and the DeBoer-factor will probably keep him there for a little while. I wouldn't mind if he was the 12th or 13th forward when we are fully healthy. He is better than our minor league vets Haley, Lerg, etc. No reason he should be playing 17+ minutes a game, although today was a special circumstance with Ward and Karlsson out.
 

hohosaregood

Banned
Sep 1, 2011
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He's still an NHLer which is more than you could say for like 80% of our bottom 6 over the last 3-4 years.
 

DenisSamson3

Registered User
Sep 13, 2007
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Thats good to hear. I haven't been watching the games on the west coast as much this season but glad he is doing ok. Since I have Pavelski in my pool, is Zubrus going to be a regular on the first line? Also checked your teams game day thread against the Senators . He was listed on the fourth line. So this might be temporary?
 

stator

Registered User
Apr 17, 2012
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San Jose
How has Zubrus been progressing?

He's too slow for the NHL, let alone in a top 6 forward position, and more so for the top line.

He should have more assists and goals being on the top line, but does not. It's the defense line that has been taking more of the assists while Zubrus is on that line.

He's still NHL serviceable for the 4th line, and a good fill-in for the 3rd line. The problem he has there, though, is that he does not hit much, avoids blocking shots, and cannot punch a face when one needs punching. Still, one need not be that picky for the bottom six, particularly the Sharks.

He interviews well and seems like a nice guy, and a team player. But the former is not a qualification for winning the Stanley Cup. Otherwise, the Kings would have never won two.

Bottom line is that the only reason he is in a NHL jersey right now is Peter DeBoer. And, the only reason he is on a NHL top line is DeBoer's bro-luv of him.
 

spintops

Registered User
Sep 13, 2013
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^ I think you are being to hard on him. We have iced much worse players then Zubrus this year so with the current injuries he deserves a spot on the team. And call it him lucking onto the top line when Jumbo was finally getting over his non-injury, but the top line has been better the past few games with him on it.
 

DenisSamson3

Registered User
Sep 13, 2007
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He's too slow for the NHL, let alone in a top 6 forward position, and more so for the top line.

He should have more assists and goals being on the top line, but does not. It's the defense line that has been taking more of the assists while Zubrus is on that line.

He's still NHL serviceable for the 4th line, and a good fill-in for the 3rd line. The problem he has there, though, is that he does not hit much, avoids blocking shots, and cannot punch a face when one needs punching. Still, one need not be that picky for the bottom six, particularly the Sharks.

He interviews well and seems like a nice guy, and a team player. But the former is not a qualification for winning the Stanley Cup. Otherwise, the Kings would have never won two.

Bottom line is that the only reason he is in a NHL jersey right now is Peter DeBoer. And, the only reason he is on a NHL top line is DeBoer's bro-luv of him.

Well offensively I would not expect much from him. But at least he was still decent historically in the defensive zone. He typically was not a liability from a goals against aspect.
 

stator

Registered User
Apr 17, 2012
5,033
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San Jose
Well offensively I would not expect much from him. But at least he was still decent historically in the defensive zone. He typically was not a liability from a goals against aspect.

I was going to say that Zubrus has more value to the Sharks if he can be a solid 3rd pairing. The first couple of games, he was lost on the ice and looking for something to do. But, once he adjusted, he clearly shows a good understanding of the game, knows where to be and what to do, but his legs cannot keep up playing 2-way hockey with top lines of competitive teams.

Melker belongs on the 1st line as he's shown much more production, and 2-way capability. Sharks should give a look at Zubrus on defense. He's got the size and knowledge of the game.

Peter DeBoer does not know what's he is doing and does not belong behind a Sharks' bench.



^ I think you are being to hard on him. We have iced much worse players then Zubrus this year so with the current injuries he deserves a spot on the team. And call it him lucking onto the top line when Jumbo was finally getting over his non-injury, but the top line has been better the past few games with him on it.

Perhaps, or maybe you might be too soft on Zubrus because of the those other players. The reason why the top line has improved is because Thornton is not dragging it down. As I stated above, Melker belongs on the 1st line as he can get to the net much quicker on a transition than Zubrus can.
 

DarrylshutzSydor

Registered User
Aug 9, 2007
2,547
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California
He's too slow for the NHL, let alone in a top 6 forward position, and more so for the top line.

He should have more assists and goals being on the top line, but does not. It's the defense line that has been taking more of the assists while Zubrus is on that line.

He's still NHL serviceable for the 4th line, and a good fill-in for the 3rd line. The problem he has there, though, is that he does not hit much, avoids blocking shots, and cannot punch a face when one needs punching. Still, one need not be that picky for the bottom six, particularly the Sharks.

He interviews well and seems like a nice guy, and a team player. But the former is not a qualification for winning the Stanley Cup. Otherwise, the Kings would have never won two.

Bottom line is that the only reason he is in a NHL jersey right now is Peter DeBoer. And, the only reason he is on a NHL top line is DeBoer's bro-luv of him.

I don't think he's as slow as people have been saying, and if he is, then Dillon is a snail.......
 

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