Dahlin vs Heiskanen

[Honour Over Glory]

And Dahlin is the best offensive D at his age the league has seen in at least ~40 years. And it's not even like he's bad defensively, he's just not elite there yet. I don't understand how there are still people in denial about how special his talent is. It's not a slight to Heiskanen. Dahlin is just actually producing like the generational defenseman he was supposed to be.

And as a person that isn't a fan of either team, I would take Miro Heiskanen over Dahlin.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He's tracking to be the 2nd highest scoring teenage D in NHL history (behind only Phil Housley, who figuratively played 0 D and literally actually played some at forward).
He is something really, really special.

He turns 20 before he finishes the season, not sure that still flies.

 

[sabremike]

He turns 20 before he finishes the season, not sure that still flies.

That was true of just about all the guys he is being compared to.

 

[keglu]

What are exact criteria here. Hughes is from same draft and produces at better rate now as a rookie to boot.

 

[RorschachWJK]

Miro is 2nd on his team to Lindell and averages 2.38 SHTOI/G, Dahlin averages 5 seconds of SHTOI per game.

Miro is producing at a 40pt pace playing 1 min and some change less on the PP but also playing a lot shorthanded and is producing like a top pair. Kid is a stud.

The bolded part seems to be ignored by a lot of people in this thread and elsewhere. For most, the reason is probably genuine ignorance but for a select few, it is on purpose. You know whom I speak of.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

As a Pens fan - From what I have seen out of both, I like what Heiskanen brings, his offense is going to come but his defense is so damn good, no matter how hard a player works, they never get that good at what he does already so naturally, that quickly or over time. Just doesn't work like that. Dahlin is fantastic offensively, but for me, I take Miro.

A guy that can play in all situations like him, solid defensively, puts up 33 in his rookie year and is on pace for 41-42 pts is huge.

Ya idk.
Gonna be a lot of people wishing they could do what Dahlin does.

Sounds almost as impressive as as getting 44 at 18.

He turns 20 before he finishes the season, not sure that still flies.

It probs would fly with how late it would be, but doesn't matter since he actually will be 19 when he plays the last regular season game.

Oh to have such a young amazing player.

 

[Panthaz89]

Dallas, last season.

What Josi is doing this year is considered carrying his team...can't see how you think he carried them last year. D-Man who carry the team have to be able to produce on offense you can't win if you don't score in a game. People talk about being a homer but you brought it to a new level here..

 

[Elysian]

What Josi is doing this year is considered carrying his team...can't see how you think he carried them last year. D-Man who carry the team have to be able to produce on offense you can't win if you don't score in a game. People talk about being a homer but you brought it to a new level here..

How much did you watch Dallas last year? Points don't tell Miro's influence on every game he's in.

 

[chirrrs]

What Josi is doing this year is considered carrying his team...can't see how you think he carried them last year. D-Man who carry the team have to be able to produce on offense you can't win if you don't score in a game. People talk about being a homer but you brought it to a new level here..

Calling someone a homer because you disagree with them isn't even an argument, it's just lazy.

Before Heiskanen's rookie season last year, Dallas had hoped that Heiskanen could be eased into the system and start off in a 2nd pairing role and work his way up. Then it became apparent that Johns wasn't going to play, and Methot went on IR the first week of the season. Klingberg broke his hand four weeks in and missed over a month. Suddenly Heiskanen was immediately thrust into a #1 role and expected to play way more minutes than planned 5on5 and on special teams. A lot of Stars fans and analysts around the league figured Dallas' D would suffer big time with half of their starting D out, but instead, they looked better than ever with the addition of Heiskanen. He absolutely carried the team while Dallas weathered those injuries. Dallas misses the playoffs last year without him. Scoring wasn't great last year either, so Dallas had to rely on D to keep them in games to win. Led by Heiskanen, Dallas iced arguably the best defensive unit the team has ever had. If necessary, I'll reference actual numbers and stats to back all that up when I get home tonight, but I'm sure someone else might beat me to it, though it's hardly necessary to do all of that to prove a point that isn't very controversial. It seems to me like it would require a real "homer" view to make that assertion.

Heiskanen absolutely carried the team, and you'd have a hard time arguing against that. If you insist on taking that stance, I'd love to hear the reasoning backed with actual evidence other than "I just don't think so".

 

[Panthaz89]

How much did you watch Dallas last year? Points don't tell Miro's influence on every game he's in.

I can play that card for every team for most of the fans here...pretty sure no matter what charts you show Dallas was actually outscored at even strength more than any other Dallas player and was 3rd in ice time behind 2 other Defenseman on his own team.

 

[Kcb12345]

What Josi is doing this year is considered carrying his team...can't see how you think he carried them last year. D-Man who carry the team have to be able to produce on offense you can't win if you don't score in a game. People talk about being a homer but you brought it to a new level here..

Now obviously he didn't completely carry the team, but it's no coincidence the Stars have been outscored 10-0 without Heiskanen in the lineup. You wouldn't know his impact from box score watching every night, but there's a reason he's already considered the best player on the team despite not leading in points. 33 points given how terrible the Stars offense is/was though is very impressive. And most of that came at even strength and without the help of the Stars top line.

Let's just say without Heiskanen, the Stars don't even come close to being a playoff team last season and I can't even imagine how much worse their offense would've been without a guy that can move the puck given how terrible Klingberg was.

Stars had a few guys play well last season though so saying he did carry the team is not entirely correct. Vezina level goaltending, Radulov was good, Lindell was good, Seguin was decent, that's about it but still.

 

[tsujimoto74]

He turns 20 before he finishes the season, not sure that still flies.

His birthday isn't until April 13. Also, he's so close already that it would basically take a catastrophic injury to prevent him from reaching that milestone.

 

[chirrrs]

Now obviously he didn't completely carry the team, but it's no coincidence the Stars have been outscored 10-0 without Heiskanen in the lineup. You wouldn't know his impact from box score watching every night, but there's a reason he's already considered the best player on the team despite not leading in points. 33 points given how terrible the Stars offense is/was though is very impressive. And most of that came at even strength and without the help of the Stars top line.

Let's just say without Heiskanen, the Stars don't even come close to being a playoff team last season and I can't even imagine how much worse their offense would've been without a guy that can move the puck given how terrible Klingberg was.

Stars had a few guys play well last season though so saying he did carry the team is not entirely correct. Vezina level goaltending, Radulov was good, Lindell was good, Seguin was decent, that's about it but still.

I suppose that's true. The point I was trying to make is that he carried the team in the sense that once Klingberg went down, it really looked like a good chance that Dallas would drop the majority of their games over the next 6 weeks and dig themselves into a hole they would never be able to climb out of. The season very easily could have been lost right then and there in November, but the exact opposite happened. If you don't want to use the terminology that he "carried the team", I would have to otherwise say that he was undoubtedly the catalyst to their success last year. You can pretty clearly look at November as the exact point where Dallas' defensive identity suddenly came into focus, an absolute turning point to the overall identity of the team. I would also say he's had the single biggest impact on the team. Our offense is already stagnant, so you couldn't make the case for any one forward there. When an offense is as bad as ours has been, yet the team still hovers around 3rd in the conference, either the D as a whole, or a couple of key defensemen and/goaltenders must be carrying the team in the offense's absence. Khudobin is just as good as Bishop, so you really can't make the case for Bishop (these last two seasons) either. Heiskanen is the best player on the team, and has been pretty much from the moment he took the ice to start last year. It's pretty hard to overstate his importance to this team.

 

[Elysian]

I can play that card for every team for most of the fans here...pretty sure no matter what charts you show Dallas was actually outscored at even strength more than any other Dallas player and was 3rd in ice time behind 2 other Defenseman on his own team.

That's a lot of words when "no" would have done.

 

[Panthaz89]

That's a lot of words when "no" would have done.

In other words my 33 point Defenseman is carrying the team because he's been the best defensive D-man ever by those standards... I don't consider guys like Slavin as carrying a team(at least he led his team in TOI). Wasn't even a Calder finalist but now he carried the team to the playoffs I think people lost what the word carry meant. Seems more like a person trying to cram every player into the elite group or like people who keep throwing generational around....you telling me every top line player and first pairing in the playoffs are guys that carried their teams?

 

[Elysian]

In other words my 33 point Defenseman is carrying the team because he's been the best defensive D-man ever by those standards... I don't consider guys like Slavin as carrying a team(at least he led his team in TOI). Wasn't even a Calder finalist but now he carried the team to the playoffs I think people lost what the word carry meant. Seems more like a person trying to cram every player into the elite group or like people who keep throwing generational around....you telling me every top line player and first pairing in the playoffs are guys that carried their teams?

You really don't know what you're talking about. I don't have anything more to say.

 

[dortt]

Dahlin, while better lately, has not lived up to his draft hype. He was hyped as having a floor of Doughty. Doughty's second season was quite a bit better than Dahlin's so far.

Dahlin is a 50/50 at least of becoming a HOFer, likely quite a bit higher. But he's not shown the generational levels so far that were touted pre draft (and by generational, the only players I consider to be generational are Hainesworth, Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Hasek) .

As for which one I would take, depends upon the needs of the team. A team needing offense would take Dahlin every day and twice on Sunday. He could peak at a point per game over an 82 game season

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Buffalo has pretty good players on their roster, they shouldn't be this bad. Dahlin hasn't been able to carry his team. Buffalo should be a good team with Eichel+Dahlin.

This is said about them every year. At some point, it’s not the players. I think they are talented enough that they could sneak into the playoffs, like Carolina did last year or Columbus might do this year. But those teams had/have great cultures within their organizations and are well coached. The problem with Buffalo is more than only the talent of the players.

 

[Panthaz89]

This is said about them every year. At some point, it’s not the players. I think they are talented enough that they could sneak into the playoffs, like Carolina did last year or Columbus might do this year. But those teams had/have great cultures within their organizations and are well coached. The problem with Buffalo is more than only the talent of the players.

Culture has nothing to do with it here's the main reasons we aren't gonna make it

• Hutton has been beyond awful in his past 10 games pretty much forcing Ullmark to handle heavy workload because he's playing like a starter. His play has hurt the Sabres substantially
• Injuries to LW position in Olofsson and Skinner hurt quite a bit.
• middle 6 is one of the worst in the entire league.

Just finish building a good team and the fictional "culture problem" would cure itself if that was no true no team would ever be able to turn it around after a bad season.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Culture has nothing to do with it here's the main reasons we aren't gonna make it

• Hutton has been beyond awful in his past 10 games pretty much forcing Ullmark to handle heavy workload because he's playing like a starter. His play has hurt the Sabres substantially
• Injuries to LW position in Olofsson and Skinner hurt quite a bit.
• middle 6 is one of the worst in the entire league.

Just finish building a good team and the fictional "culture problem" would cure itself if that was no true no team would ever be able to turn it around after a bad season.

There are plenty of teams in the league that have holes. When you have a top five player in the league and some other premier players, I think the team is more than talented enough to get better results.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

How much did you watch Dallas last year? Points don't tell Miro's influence on every game he's in.

He’s very good. He didn’t carry them.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Dahlin, while better lately, has not lived up to his draft hype. He was hyped as having a floor of Doughty. Doughty's second season was quite a bit better than Dahlin's so far.

They are on pace for nearly the same amount of points at age 19. Doughty also played 6 minutes more per game. Don’t blame Dahlin because his coach is dumb.

 

[MikeK]

I think some people are still forgetting that Rasmus Dahlin is only 19yrs old. Wait until that kid grows into his frame and becomes man. He's going to completely dominate and control games.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Dahlin, while better lately, has not lived up to his draft hype. He was hyped as having a floor of Doughty. Doughty's second season was quite a bit better than Dahlin's so far.

Dahlin is a 50/50 at least of becoming a HOFer, likely quite a bit higher. But he's not shown the generational levels so far that were touted pre draft (and by generational, the only players I consider to be generational are Hainesworth, Howe, Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Hasek) .

As for which one I would take, depends upon the needs of the team. A team needing offense would take Dahlin every day and twice on Sunday. He could peak at a point per game over an 82 game season

Accomplishing things no defenseman has at his age since roughly 40 years ago. Yup, 0 signs of generational talent there.

 

[Oan]

Points aren't everything and the most defining quality for a defenseman.