D-Day - Canucks waive Baertschi, Biega, Goldobin

[DL44]

I think your post history will speak to how posters perceive your position. Just as my history will speak to my position. It’s not something we need to discuss here though.

I’m still isolating it to Beagle/Gaudette — I question management and your own assertion that Beagle is better. I do not take that as a given. Do you?

Beagle and Gaudette go into a corner for a puck battle - who's coming out with it?
Defensive draw late in a game - who you sending out 83 or 88?
Need to kill the final 30 sec of a penalty, who you sending out 83 or 88?
The play is coming back, who are you trusting to pick up the right man 83 or 88?
Race for the puck, who gets there first 83 or 88?
Who would you rather lineup across from McDavid tomorrow night 83 or 88?

I'm sure there are some /60 stats that show 88's offensive superiority tho... so there's that.

 

[RobertKron]

Honestly, at this point I’d say it’s better to just be knee-jerk pro benning than to just happen to somehow independently consider every decision he ever makes, and, on a case-by-case basis, have decided that they were all good moves.

One is just blind devotion, however questionable that may be, while the other is just consistent terrible judgement, and a pretty heavy lack of self-awareness.

 

[Hit the post]

Who would you rather lineup across from McDavid tomorrow night 83 or 88?

EP

Strength vs strength.

I don't want no 4th liner facing him.

 

[Jay Cee]

Schallar Beagle Eriksson is the new energy line yeah?

 

[Canucko]

If Roussel isn't LTIR eligible (24 days or 10 games) then it's a moot point and there's no relief to be had.

If he is eligible, then we have temporary space while Roussel is out to be used on a replacement player. We have to get cap compliant when he comes back, which seems like could be sooner than we originally thought. We also don't accrue additional cap space while using up our LTIR (i.e if we had 167k to start year, by the trade deadline that would be closer to $400k assuming we didn't need to call anyone up for short term injuries).

I hadn’t heard that his recovery was ahead of schedule - that’s good news. And yes, we’re on the same page regarding the long term impacts on the cap.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Beagle and Gaudette go into a corner for a puck battle - who's coming out with it?
Defensive draw late in a game - who you sending out 83 or 88?
Need to kill the final 30 sec of a penalty, who you sending out 83 or 88?
The play is coming back, who are you trusting to pick up the right man 83 or 88?
Race for the puck, who gets there first 83 or 88?
Who would you rather lineup across from McDavid tomorrow night 83 or 88?

I'm sure there are some /60 stats that show 88's offensive superiority tho... so there's that.

Thank you for your rationale. Appreciate it, truly.

Now then, I would say that all of those isolated events are accounted for in Beagle’s overall defensive measure... which is woefully wanting. He is not an NHL calibre defensive forward. Not per last year’s performance anyway.

So faced with that knowledge, I would take the slight chance at an NHL player over someone older who did not perform at an NHL level.

Does that seem logical?

 

[Hit the post]

Schallar Beagle Eriksson is the new energy line yeah?

The prozac line.

 

[tradervik]

If Motte is out for a week or so, the Canucks can't recall anyone to fill his spot without putting Roussel on LTIR. This would be the case regardless of who they waived. When Roussel is cleared to play (and assuming there are no new injuries), they'll have to waive someone to put him back on the active roster. That will give them the cushion to recall any player except Baertschi. The only way Baertschi plays is while Roussel (or equivalent) is on LTIR or if Benning unloads someone with roughly the same cap hit. Not sure if that's cap hell but it's not unicorns and rainbows.

 

[StreetHawk]

I hadn’t heard that his recovery was ahead of schedule - that’s good news. And yes, we’re on the same page regarding the long term impacts on the cap.

Teams have the option of keeping the player on ltir. Probably depends on how the team is going. Has he been practicing? Serious injury he’s coming off. Can’t gage how close he is until he is practicing with the team.

 

[tradervik]

If Motte is out for a week or so, the Canucks can't recall anyone to fill his spot without putting Roussel on LTIR. This would be the case regardless of who they waived. When Roussel is cleared to play (and assuming there are no new injuries), they'll have to waive someone to put him back on the active roster. That will give them the cushion to recall any player except Baertschi. The only way Baertschi plays is while Roussel (or equivalent) is on LTIR or if Benning unloads someone with roughly the same cap hit. Not sure if that's cap hell but it's not unicorns and rainbows.

Scratch the bit about not being able to recall Baerstchi.

 

[Javaman]

Teams have the option of keeping the player on ltir. Probably depends on how the team is going. Has he been practicing? Serious injury he’s coming off. Can’t gage how close he is until he is practicing with the team.

Can you clarify what you mean by this? Can a team really keep a player on LTIR based on how the team is going? (performing?). The flip side of what I think you're suggesting is that teams can pressure players to return from injury before they are ready for cap reasons, which is wrong in many different ways. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what you are saying though.

I'm not an expert on the CBA between owners and players, but my sense has always been that LTIR was never intended to make it easier for teams to find loopholes to circumvent the cap.

 

[xtra]

Beagle and Gaudette go into a corner for a puck battle - who's coming out with it?
Defensive draw late in a game - who you sending out 83 or 88?
Need to kill the final 30 sec of a penalty, who you sending out 83 or 88?
The play is coming back, who are you trusting to pick up the right man 83 or 88?
Race for the puck, who gets there first 83 or 88?
Who would you rather lineup across from McDavid tomorrow night 83 or 88?

I'm sure there are some /60 stats that show 88's offensive superiority tho... so there's that.

Face offs are an overrated as hell stat so it’s a stupid point to make.

Last year the canucks as a team took on average 59 face offs a game. Beagle when playing averaged 13 faceoffs a game which is less than a quarter of our faceoffs per game.

I mean that shouldn’t be a stat your using to say someone’s better considering the insignificance of it.

 

[DL44]

Face offs are an overrated as hell stat so it’s a stupid point to make.

Last year the canucks as a team took on average 59 face offs a game. Beagle when playing averaged 13 faceoffs a game which is less than a quarter of our faceoffs per game.

I mean that shouldn’t be a stat your using to say someone’s better considering the insignificance of it.

And so are zone starts where a single zone start can swing a percentage by 5%.

But good thing we aren't only talking about faceoffs eh..

 

[DL44]

Thank you for your rationale. Appreciate it, truly.

after the back and forth we had of you consistently insisting i was auto defending, this line sound disingenuous as hell.

Now then, I would say that all of those isolated events are accounted for in Beagle’s overall defensive measure... which is woefully wanting. He is not an NHL calibre defensive forward. Not per last year’s performance anyway.

So faced with that knowledge, I would take the slight chance at an NHL player over someone older who did not perform at an NHL level.

Does that seem logical?

It might.. if we were talking about a player that isn't an NHL caliber player.

Also makes ya wonder.... what makes a guy try to ram label of managerial auto defender or pro-Benning on someone because he thinks a guy with "slight chance" of being better isn't being played right now. Quite the hill to choose to die on.

 

[xtra]

And so are zone starts where a single zone start can swing a percentage by 5%.

But good thing we aren't only talking about faceoffs eh..

You’re right the whole argument should be framed in the lens of who’s going to help us win a cup one day with This organization: and guess what that answer is never going to be jay beagle so all your grit and fast skating goes out the window. You need to put gaudette in to get through the growing pains so that one day he might help you win a cup.

 

[Cupless44]

Beagle and Gaudette go into a corner for a puck battle - who's coming out with it?
Defensive draw late in a game - who you sending out 83 or 88?
Need to kill the final 30 sec of a penalty, who you sending out 83 or 88?
The play is coming back, who are you trusting to pick up the right man 83 or 88?
Race for the puck, who gets there first 83 or 88?
Who would you rather lineup across from McDavid tomorrow night 83 or 88?

I'm sure there are some /60 stats that show 88's offensive superiority tho... so there's that.

For all the talk of Beagle being this great defensive forward while chipping in 3 goals a year, fact is he got killed last year in matchups and the metrics support that. Worst use of 3 million possible and to be stuck with him blocking young players for 4 years is just more terrible management from Benning.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

For all the talk of Beagle being this great defensive forward while chipping in 3 goals a year, fact is he got killed last year in matchups and the metrics support that. Worst use of 3 million possible and to be stuck with him blocking young players for 4 years is just more terrible management from Benning.

Beagle is a better player than Sutter. Better GA/60, better at face offs, better durability, better analytics.

 

[VanJack]

Schallar Beagle Eriksson is the new energy line yeah?

Ha..ha!.....or the new 'kid line' in Back to the Future.

 

[timw33]

With 167k, on a short term replacement basis, we can replace our roster players with a $750,000 replacement player for 40 days on the roster.

That's how tight things are going to be this year.

 

[Peen]

Beagle is a better player than Sutter. Better GA/60, better at face offs, better durability, better analytics.

He also legitimately just looks better on the ice. He looks faster, more engaged, and more positionally sound.

 

[Hoghandler]

He also legitimately just looks better on the ice. He looks faster, more engaged, and more positionally sound.

Sutter has the shot though. Pretty valuable when you can get 15-20 goals from a bottom six forward.

If both guys are healthy, they both can help this team. Durability is the question mark.

 

[Peen]

Sutter has the shot though. Pretty valuable when you can get 15-20 goals from a bottom six forward.

If both guys are healthy, they both can help this team. Durability is the question mark.

Reid Boucher also has a good shot and can also put up 15-20 goals. Let's put him in. Oh wait, we wouldn't do that because he is a non-factor in every other area of the game and we would get roasted with him on the ice. Sutter is legitimately living off reputation rather than performance.

They can't. The only way Sutter is a help to the team is if he plays at the level he did three years ago while also being shifted to the wing.

This stupid f***ing setup of Sutter and Beagle will bleed goals based on past evidence. The players around them are not new.

Before this week, I had taken the wait and see approach with Green as he always had nothing to work with. They had the choice to go with Gaudette and Baertschi in a scoring line and change things up from this group that bleeds goals and they didn't.

Haven't been this annoyed with a Benning regime move in 2.5 years.

 

[Peen]

Also, I had this same conversation with @DL44 a week ago. We can't over simplify the game based on these ancient archetypes of players.

This is what has lead us to these overpayments, misuses, overlooking of players at a pro scouting level. It's been painfully obvious for years.

 

[settinguptheplay]

With 167k, on a short term replacement basis, we can replace our roster players with a $750,000 replacement player for 40 days on the roster.

That's how tight things are going to be this year.

So basically it comes down to Boucher, Perron, Graovac and Bailey as possible call ups. And to clarify. You mean that if no one is on LTIR this is our cap space. With Roussel on LTIR we have plenty of room for call ups.

 

[Melvin]

What's up with no GDT?