Confirmed with Link: D Brooks Orpik signed (five years, $5.5M per)

[txpd]

I usually don't.

Let's just pretend you cited some conflicting examples from that particular poster. Every single thing he says is negative and often borderline flame bait regardless of the subject. Isn't it obvious? But you're telling me you take that one semi-troll seriously enough to get bent out of shape and construct your entire view of the rest of the board? I would hardly consider the bulk of your posts, which all carry the same theme, to be directed at this one person.

I just put him up as an example. do you really want me to start naming names and stir that up? lets just let it go, pal.

 

[g00n]

I just put him up as an example. do you really want me to start naming names and stir that up? lets just let it go, pal.

You're the one that brought it up. If you're going to keep making accusations about people then don't be surprised when you're asked to back up what you say. Especially when you're criticizing people for repetitive, habitual, unsupported generalizations and you're doing it yourself. Pal.

Back to what you said:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=87713361&postcount=259

forever here we read constant ridicule of George McPhee for his risk aversion and his unwillingness to make bold moves. Had MacLellan been on the job for 5 years and the team struggling these would have been dubbed desperation/save his job moves.

The problem with hypotheticals is they can often become strawmen. What was done in those 5 years? With GMGM we know exactly what the track record was for over three times that span, and we know with certainty what his philosophy toward big splash moves was. As stated before, and with nobody I can see disagreeing, GMGM would never have made this deal for Orpik based on those factors. With almost all new coaches, possibly new philosophies and not a single game played yet we don't know how this will play out. But we do know it's not business as usual and not a GMGM move, and we can look around the league at COMPARABLES and suspect as most in the hockey world do that it is on its face an overpayment with dangerous term.

by their nature, bold moves are going to be controversial. if everyone thought they were good moves, they wouldn't be bold.

You seem to think everyone was begging for big splash at any cost and therefore "bold" moves that, once made, can't be questioned in any way. There is a difference between risky bold, stupid bold, and uncharacteristically bold but sound. Stepping into traffic is bold, but risky and probably stupid. Betting all your money on a lame horse is bold but flat out stupid. Taking that money instead and betting for the first time in your life on the prohibitive favorite is uncharactaristically bold, less risky, and less stupid.

Do you understand the differences? Do you get that all risk and controversy (differene of opinion, really) is not the same?

I am afraid that Niskanen was a flash in the pan last season and that Orpik is running out of gas. But MacLellan and Trotz seem to think Niskanen just needed the chance and that Orpik is a major missing cog in the wheel. I am fine waiting to see how it works out.

Some of you guys seem to be so used to whining and moaning and sniping at McPhee that when you finally get a GM that embraces risk and makes bold moves that you can't get off that negative track and just have keep throwing barbs.

Who here is seriously advocating anything other than seeing how it works out while offering analysis of the deals? You yourself express "negativity" toward the moves but you give yourself permission to do so while making a generalized attack on people for hypocrisy you can't even prove.

It seems you're hell-bent on again trying to have it both ways. When it suits you, GMGM was bad and you told everyone it COULD get worse. When you see an opportunity to save some face over your previous stumping for management you flip the script and defend GMGM and company yet again.

 

[txpd]

its obvious that my perception is wrong. there aren't complaints that the new gm has made terrible decisions. Its all in my head.

I surrender.

 

[g00n]

its obvious that my perception is wrong. there aren't complaints that the new gm has made terrible decisions. Its all in my head.

I surrender.

see my reply to your personal message. Thread should return to topic.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

you all need to relax. Orpik is one of the best pure best defensive D-men in the game. I don't know much about Corsi or Fenwick but I do know the game, having been fortunate enough to play it on the collegiate level. He stays in position. He hits like a Mack truck. He clears the crease. He blocks shots. He's no Duncan Keith but he's also no John Erskine if you know what I mean. I would have guessed his Cap hit to be about what it was given his experience, Stanley Cup ring and reputation. I would've like to see the deal no longer than four years but GMBM said it was necessary to get the job done. Orpik could fade away like Poti or he could be like Nick Lindstrom. Only time will tell.

To me the real risk here is Niskanen. He has only one strong year under his belt. If he doesn't continue to improve this contract could be an albatross. However if he continues to prove improve they could've got a steal.

The bottom line is after many years of standing pat or producing minor deals they at least took a chance to move forward

He is CONSTANTLY taking himself out or position to try to make those hits, they are now far and in between. The second part about "clearing the crease" is laughably and horribly wrong.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

I've been watching Orpik bodychecks on YouTube. He crushes guys with clean hits. Many of the hits I saw were within the last two years. Is there good reason to think he can't hit like that any more? If he still hits guys like that once each game I am PUMPED to have Orpik on the team.

We would see a hit like that once ever 12-15 games, and that was before his two knee injuries, the second one which was really bad.

 

[RandyHolt]

Sure if he was ours all along some here would be proclaiming him "done"

There are legit concerns about his health and age. It seems our best hope is the effect that he has on our younger Dmen, that have ostensibly been mentor free their entire time here. I say that because Green has been horribly inconsistent during tenures of Orlov Carlson and Alzner. And none have had chemistry with him, either.

Enter Orpik, who by trying to throw a big hit every 10 games will be about 8 times more often than you see any of our Dmen try. Collectively.

Pens fans may hold him to a high standard because they saw him at his peak. Keep laughing at us but you know who he is going to try to pop. He can save all his hits for Pens games for all I care.

Limping in on one leg for camp in September, he may be our 2nd best Dman. Maybe the best, who knows.

Yep Pens fans, its been that bad here. Now go on now. Go on.

 

[Dream Big]

Sure if he was ours all along some here would be proclaiming him "done"

There are legit concerns about his health and age. It seems our best hope is the effect that he has on our younger Dmen, that have ostensibly been mentor free their entire time here. I say that because Green has been horribly inconsistent during tenures of Orlov Carlson and Alzner. And none have had chemistry with him, either.
.

I'm trying to recall the tenures to build chemistry with Green.

I'm trying to remember when Green played with Carlson?

Alzner and Green? In 2013/14? Did they play together? I think there were some games in the short season. No real opportunity to build chemistry.

Green with Orlov or Hillen and Schmidt seem to be the main partners last season.

I'm really interested to see who Green gets partnered with this year.

 

[Capathetic]

Pittsburgh fans still coming here to dog Orpik? No waaaay.

So after Letang gets injured the pens are putting a lot of faith in Erhoff and Matta. Not saying their young guys aren't loaded with potential but that could get messy relying on so many youngsters at once.

Players like Orpik are always old and losing a step but bet your ass every team winning the cup has 2 or 3 guys just like him in line to get the hardware first.

We can worry about his contract when that time comes,for now let's get a good camp in and start winning some games.

 

[RandyHolt]

I'm trying to recall the tenures to build chemistry with Green.

I'm trying to remember when Green played with Carlson?

Alzner and Green? In 2013/14? Did they play together? I think there were some games in the short season. No real opportunity to build chemistry.

Green with Orlov or Hillen and Schmidt seem to be the main partners last season.

I'm really interested to see who Green gets partnered with this year.

The only time I remember Carlson and Green? Montreal Series Winning goal, with Green bum rushed one on one deep coughed it up.

Alzner and Green sadly, has just never worked. I am stunned as I have thought they were our top pair of the future. Green and Orlov showed a little but it didn't stick.

The best I can remember Green was with Hammer. Green needs a vet more than our kids do, perhaps.

Now some of that may be coaching, but more just may be a questionable development plan; our young dmen have not had a proper mentor. Green may be a mentor for Carlson but again they don't play together. And the lackluster play by Green as Carlson watches.... maybe its best he not look.

So enter Orpik who should help all 3 kids and likely Green before he is jettisoned.

 

[ilovealistair]

I just don't get it, if you''re gonna pay that much money for D than should't you be trying to sign some foreign players, like from the KHL and from Sweden?

 

[g00n]

I just don't get it, if you''re gonna pay that much money for D than should't you be trying to sign some foreign players, like from the KHL and from Sweden?

What is the reasoning behind this sentence?

 

[txpd]

Green needs a vet more than our kids do, perhaps. .

of course. Green's game is to be a risk taker and to create offense.

 

[txpd]

He is CONSTANTLY taking himself out or position to try to make those hits, they are now far and in between. The second part about "clearing the crease" is laughably and horribly wrong.

no offense, basher of Orpik, but Scott Stevens and every other big hitter in the NHL takes himself out of position to make a hit. its the nature of the play. same with offensive defensemen.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

What is the reasoning behind this sentence?

I'm guessing vodka.

 

[Bananas]

Why are we gonna spend that much money on the D and not buy a pack of potato chips?

Am I doing it right?

 

[Xaroc]

I am as big an advanced stats proponent as anyone but I remember a lot of consternation when the Kings were talking about picking up Regher:

http://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/2...zing-kings-trade-rumors-is-robyn-regher-a-fit

And as it turned out he was really good in LA's system (55% CF this year and over 50% last year). I think this is the best we can hope from Orpik. Hopefully Trotz's system does similar things for him.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I am as big an advanced stats proponent as anyone but I remember a lot of consternation when the Kings were talking about picking up Regher:

http://www.jewelsfromthecrown.com/2...zing-kings-trade-rumors-is-robyn-regher-a-fit

And as it turned out he was really good in LA's system (55% CF this year and over 50% last year). I think this is the best we can hope from Orpik. Hopefully Trotz's system does similar things for him.

Should have traded Semin for him years ago. Something would have been better than nothing.

 

[ilovealistair]

my reasoning is that if you are willing to pay so much money for a defensemen, can't you try and get a younger one from another hockey league? Orpik is old and he's on a 5 year deal. Granted, year one and maybe two and three will be ok but still, if you''re gonna throw that much money around couldn't you try to get someone younger, even if they aren't in the NHL? I'm still new, but I thought free agency was anyone, not just NHL wide. Am I wrong?

 

[Xaroc]

my reasoning is that if you are willing to pay so much money for a defensemen, can't you try and get a younger one from another hockey league? Orpik is old and he's on a 5 year deal. Granted, year one and maybe two and three will be ok but still, if you''re gonna throw that much money around couldn't you try to get someone younger, even if they aren't in the NHL? I'm still new, but I thought free agency was anyone, not just NHL wide. Am I wrong?

The amount of value you can get by signing players from other leagues is pretty low. A younger guy from another league is either property of an NHL team or not good enough to have been drafted in most cases.

If you were going to sign someone from another league you would be looking for an inexpensive contract that you would hope the player would outplay. Or a guy who left the NHL and is looking to come back.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

In the interest of fairness:

http://www.japersrink.com/2014/7/8/5875485/brooks-orpik-corsi-contract-context

I still don't feel any better about his knees though.

 

[txpd]

Should have traded Semin for him years ago. Something would have been better than nothing.

reminder. the caps made the playoffs with a stretch run fueled by a hot streak from semin. they lost game 7 in the 2nd round. so...they got 14 playoffs games in exchange for keeping him.

 

[RandyHolt]

Some random questions

Are his advanced metrics worse than Erskine?

How serious was his latest knee injury? S'burgers seemed to imply it was bad. Yeah, it looked bad.

What are the chances he gets fat cat disease? If anyone I would say not a player of his ilk, but FCD seems contagious around the league.

 

[Koized]

Still in disbelief over this contract. Unbelievable lol.

 

[Atlas]

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

The statistics games bore me terribly. Put your pencils down. If Orpik sucks, he sucks. If he is great, he is great. It's hockey. It's not chess or Dungeons & Dragons for Christ's sake. How many Hit Points does Orpik start the season with?