CXLII - Coyotes agree to play at ASU with $20m annex for next three years.

[Ernie]

I think Ottawa is a failure. Sports don't work well in that market. Even the CFL folded like 3 or 4 times there. I can see that team relocating in the future.

Bettman and the current day board of governors would never had ok'd expansion to Ottawa. The market does nothing for the NHL's growth.

Sir, this is a Coyotes thread.

The Senators problems are all about ownership. The demographics of the market are solid, much better than QC. Higher population, higher incomes. The GDP of the area is almost double that of QC.

Then again, how much of the Coyotes problems are due to piss poor ownership? Though at least Sens fans knew Melnyk sucks and could see through his bullcrap; you'll never hear that acknowledgment from Coyotes fans.

 

[TheLegend]

Not according to this forum. Non traditional markets bad, Canadian markets good, no matter how absurd the suggestions get (Halifax, Saskatoon, etc.)

That’s all blustering from people with zero interest in the real business aspects of the situation and looking to get cheap lolz out of it.

 

[TheLegend]

Sir, this is a Coyotes thread.

The Senators problems are all about ownership. The demographics of the market are solid, much better than QC. Higher population, higher incomes. The GDP of the area is almost double that of QC.

Then again, how much of the Coyotes problems are due to piss poor ownership? Though at least Sens fans knew Melnyk sucks and could see through his bullcrap; you'll never hear that acknowledgment from Coyotes fans.

You failed to add incredibly much more competition for the sports fan dollar than either of those two locations into your equation.

 

[edog37]

That’s all blustering from people with zero interest in the real business aspects of the situation and looking to get cheap lolz out of it.

read these forums then. Apply the same standard regardless of market location.

 

[aqib]

read these forums then. Apply the same standard regardless of market location.

Its one thing when you have slumps in attendance. The Coyotes have always struggled to draw once the novelty wears off. It happened downtown after a couple of years. It happened in Glendale after a couple of years.

 

[Knights2017]

Its one thing when you have slumps in attendance. The Coyotes have always struggled to draw once the novelty wears off. It happened downtown after a couple of years. It happened in Glendale after a couple of years.

It didn't slump downtown really..

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

Why doesn’t Ottawa sell out then? Regardless of the ownership, it should sell out no questions asked. You know, Canada & all that. See if we are going to be critical of Arizona, then the same standard goes for Ottawa also.

Because it's a crap hockey market and never should've been given a team over Hamilton

I think Ottawa is a failure. Sports don't work well in that market. Even the CFL folded like 3 or 4 times there. I can see that team relocating in the future.

Bettman and the current day board of governors would never had ok'd expansion to Ottawa. The market does nothing for the NHL's growth.

How about capitalizing on existing fans instead of focusing on growth.

 

[TheLegend]

Its one thing when you have slumps in attendance. The Coyotes have always struggled to draw once the novelty wears off. It happened downtown after a couple of years. It happened in Glendale after a couple of years.

Up until the pandemic and this last season of driving for last place, attendance at GRA had been climbing.

Keep trying.

 

[OG6ix]

Because it's a crap hockey market and never should've been given a team over Hamilton


How about capitalizing on existing fans instead of focusing on growth.

You don't need Ottawa to get a large Canadian TV deal. Heck I think if you had teams in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal you would be good enough. Every business is about growth and when you only have a set amount of franchises and potential markets you look for the growth opportunities.

 

[aqib]

It didn't slump downtown really..

They were averaging 15.6K their first couple of years downtown and were down to 13.2 by their last full season there, even though they were pretty good on the ice during that time.

 

[aqib]

Up until the pandemic and this last season of driving for last place, attendance at GRA had been climbing.

Keep trying.

All the way up to 28th out of 31 teams. Such a tragedy that momentum stopped.

 

[Stumbledore]

Up until the pandemic and this last season of driving for last place, attendance at GRA had been climbing.

Keep trying.

Attendance as a percentage of capacity:
2012-2013 81.3 %
2013-2014 80.4 %
2014-2015 77.7 %
2015-2016 78.4 %
2016-2017 76.5 %
2017-2018 76.2 %
2018-2019 81.7 %
2019-2020 85.3 %

Not much of a climb. Four percent growth over 7 years. I'd sell any business with that ROI.

 

[edog37]

Its one thing when you have slumps in attendance. The Coyotes have always struggled to draw once the novelty wears off. It happened downtown after a couple of years. It happened in Glendale after a couple of years.

the standard is the standard. Quit making excuses for one market based on geography. Ottawa has no excuse for not selling out. And truth be told, it had trouble selling out playoff games a few years back.

Because it's a crap hockey market and never should've been given a team over Hamilton


How about capitalizing on existing fans instead of focusing on growth.

Neither the Leafs & to a smaller extent, the Sabres wanted a team there.

 

[TheLegend]

All the way up to 28th out of 31 teams. Such a tragedy that momentum stopped.

You claimed it’s been dropping ever since the first couple of years…. I debunked that so now it’s relative to the rest of league.

So since they aren’t last….. even though they’ve had the biggest stretch of controversy since Bill Wirtz nearly ran the Blackhawks into the ground…. you’re down to continually moving goalposts around to mine for “likes”.

Whatevs…

 

[TheLegend]

Attendance as a percentage of capacity:
2012-2013 81.3 %
2013-2014 80.4 %
2014-2015 77.7 %
2015-2016 78.4 %
2016-2017 76.5 %
2017-2018 76.2 %
2018-2019 81.7 %
2019-2020 85.3 %

Not much of a climb. Four percent growth over 7 years. I'd sell any business with that ROI.

But it’s a climb nevertheless. In spite of all the outside distractions.

 

[aqib]

You claimed it’s been dropping ever since the first couple of years…. I debunked that so now it’s relative to the rest of league.

So since they aren’t last….. even though they’ve had the biggest stretch of controversy since Bill Wirtz nearly ran the Blackhawks into the ground…. you’re down to continually moving goalposts around to mine for “likes”.

Whatevs…

What I said was:

Its one thing when you have slumps in attendance. The Coyotes have always struggled to draw once the novelty wears off. It happened downtown after a couple of years. It happened in Glendale after a couple of years.

The fact that you had a bit of a rebound doesn't change the reality that once the novelty wears off the attendance drops.

 

[TheLegend]

What I said was:


The fact that you had a bit of a rebound doesn't change the reality that once the novelty wears off the attendance drops.

Like I said.... Whatev....

The novelty of your continually moving goalposts has become stale.

 

[fryfunk]

You don't need Ottawa to get a large Canadian TV deal. Heck I think if you had teams in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal you would be good enough. Every business is about growth and when you only have a set amount of franchises and potential markets you look for the growth opportunities.

If they weren't those markets they'd be hemorrhaging fans to other leagues.

Either in other sports or something like Junior Hockey.

All you have to do is look at the London Knights and appreciate why you need teams in every market.

A junior league wouldn't need to compete with the nhl directly, all it'd have to do is soften up the value of the TV contract.

Toronto is already hemorrhaging fans to the NBA.

This idea Canada is gonna be a hockey first market without representation is Banana land. You need as many teams as possible, otherwise you're gonna leak fans.

 

[OG6ix]

If they weren't those markets they'd be hemorrhaging fans to other leagues.

Either in other sports or something like Junior Hockey.

All you have to do is look at the London Knights and appreciate why you need teams in every market.

A junior league wouldn't need to compete with the nhl directly, all it'd have to do is soften up the value of the TV contract.

Toronto is already hemorrhaging fans to the NBA.

This idea Canada is gonna be a hockey first market without representation is Banana land. You need as many teams as possible, otherwise you're gonna leak fans.

I think you are way off. If the NHL was only in Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal that would still be more teams that the NBA/MLB in Canada. More teams to root for in different regions.

From a TV revenue perspective how much do the other markets bring to the table? 42 percent of the population are within the metro areas of those three cities I mentioned... 42%! Every other city only incrementally adds value. Ottawa is in between Toronto and Montreal so you can make an argument that the market is served there already. It's probably true considering the lack of support the senators get unless they are winning.

If the NBA or NFL expanded to Montreal and Vancouver it would make those sports an immediate "threat" to hockey purist like you. Edmonton, Calgary etc would not change it.

 

[Stumbledore]

Like I said.... Whatev....

The novelty of your continually moving goalposts has become stale.

Hey, if you wanna complain about guys getting stale, all your snide dismissive comments about 'thx for playing our game' and "drive-by shooting' and "whatever" when you can't address facts, all that crap got stinking stale way back in the megathread days.

 

[TheLegend]

Hey, if you wanna complain about guys getting stale, all your snide dismissive comments about 'thx for playing our game' and "drive-by shooting' and "whatever" when you can't address facts, all that crap got stinking stale way back in the megathread days.

Well the answer to that is simple….

Don’t spam the discussion with ten year old takes to the point where I need to be dismissive.

BTW…. This is still considered the megathread.

ATM…. I’m waiting to see if/when the proposal comes up before the Tempe city council again and if more details about the proposal come out. In particular, how the proposed $200 million in bonding is structured. Because IMNSHO that’s the 800 pound gorilla in the room that could make or break the thing.

 

[GordonGraham]

Hey, if you wanna complain about guys getting stale, all your snide dismissive comments about 'thx for playing our game' and "drive-by shooting' and "whatever" when you can't address facts, all that crap got stinking stale way back in the megathread days.

Amen, acting like he only wants positive pro coyotes poster in this thread

 

[TheLegend]

Amen, acting like he only wants positive pro coyotes poster in this thread

Nope…. I’ve lobbed my fair share of criticism towards the franchise over the years (ex: see my opinion on Meruelo not paying his business taxes for starters.)

But you do you.

 

[WeaponOfChoice]

Nope…. I’ve lobbed my fair share of criticism towards the franchise over the years (ex: see my opinion on Meruelo not paying his business taxes for starters.)

But you do you.

Sure you have...

 

[awfulwaffle]

Attendance as a percentage of capacity:
2012-2013 81.3 %
2013-2014 80.4 %
2014-2015 77.7 %
2015-2016 78.4 %
2016-2017 76.5 %
2017-2018 76.2 %
2018-2019 81.7 %
2019-2020 85.3 %

Not much of a climb. Four percent growth over 7 years. I'd sell any business with that ROI.

So what, is any team that doesn't sell out every night supposed to be sold and or moved? What about other leagues the the MLB, who have plenty of teams that don't draw big crowds each night.