CXL - UPDATE 12/9 - Coyotes settle bills after unpaid taxes come to light

[TheGreenTBer]

I'll be 100% honest, yes I would like to see 2-3 more teams in Canada. (QC, Hamilton, and eventually another GTA team). I realize that Houston is probably the NHLs #1 choice for the next team, so to get another team in Canada we need Houston resolved. Now I don't have anything against Phoenix. I've only changed planes there and I think in my life I have met one person from there.

I get that Coyotes fans (however many there are) are tired of the relocation speculation and the comments from people who want to see teams in markets that currently don't have them (Admittedly many of those comments including those from myself are dripping with biting sarcasm). However, that's where we have to make a distinction between the Coyotes board and the Business board. If someone goes onto the Coyotes board and makes posts advocating for a move or saying the franchise isn't viable or Phoenix doesn't have real fans, that's straight up trolling. However, this is a business board and people that come here should expect to see different views on the market viability, strength of the fan base, etc.

Bingo.

About 15 or so years ago, I was a moderator on a team board here. I left my team affinity out of the equation on the main boards but I was a goddamn bulldog on my own team's forum (probably to a fault) and I would light posts on fire and dance on the ashes if I detected even the slightest hint of trolling. The team boards, in my opinion, should be a type of sanctuary: if you're an outsider, tread carefully and show some respect.

On the main boards? No team should receive or deserve any special treatment, and as long as posts comply with the rules of the site it's game on.

 

[TheLegend]

Guy posts an article relevant to the issue we're discussing and gets bashed. Triggered easily much?

Relevant how? Is Meruelo’s sports book license (and one desperate AZ politician’s disinformed opinion) really going to stop a near $2 billion project??

Seems to be the people in this thread who have spent the last few years finding all sorts of obscure ways to cast schadenfreude on the Coyotes get awfully defensive when they get called out.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I'll be 100% honest, yes I would like to see 2-3 more teams in Canada. (QC, Hamilton, and eventually another GTA team). I realize that Houston is probably the NHLs #1 choice for the next team, so to get another team in Canada we need Houston resolved. Now I don't have anything against Phoenix. I've only changed planes there and I think in my life I have met one person from there.

I get that Coyotes fans (however many there are) are tired of the relocation speculation and the comments from people who want to see teams in markets that currently don't have them (Admittedly many of those comments including those from myself are dripping with biting sarcasm). However, that's where we have to make a distinction between the Coyotes board and the Business board. If someone goes onto the Coyotes board and makes posts advocating for a move or saying the franchise isn't viable or Phoenix doesn't have real fans, that's straight up trolling. However, this is a business board and people that come here should expect to see different views on the market viability, strength of the fan base, etc.

Too bad most of opposing POV are just straight up Canadian fascism.

Well, maybe not most but a lot. Productive convo is impossible when it comes to subject of relocation. Can’t blame fans of team in discussion being defensive.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Too bad most of opposing POV are just straight up Canadian fascism.

Well, maybe not most but a lot. Productive convo is impossible when it comes to subject of relocation. Can’t blame fans of team in discussion being defensive.

I understand them being defensive, but there's a difference between the obnoxious relocation potshot posters and those with no skin in the game either way just trying to analyze the business side.

I, personally, don't appreciate being lumped in with the former.

 

[aqib]

For me, the team staying or leaving is not particularly relevant, I just think this saga is absolutely fascinating. I don't like Meruelo and I don't like seeing guys like him come out ahead, but I also don't like seeing teams relocated.

I don't think the pro-Canadian snipers that occasionally visit this thread do any good whatsoever; I hate that stuff because it doesn't add anything positive to the conversation. Likewise, if a Coyotes fan is going to jump on literally every post that isn't waving a goddamn Meruelo pom-pom and accuse the poster of having an axe to grind, that doesn't add anything to the conversation either.

None of us on this board have any control in this situation. Taking shots at each other one way or another isn't helping.

That's why I have literally never posted on a Coyotes board. If there was a "teams of yesteryear" section on this site with a board for the Atlanta Thrashers, like a baseball forum I used to frequent which had boards for the Brooklyn Dodgers, St Louis Browns, etc., I wouldn't be there either. This is a business board and frankly the Coyotes saga is the most interesting sports business story since the Browns relocation/rebirth. So of course people who normally don't care about the Coyotes or the State of Arizona are going to come here and jump in.

 

[aqib]

Too bad most of opposing POV are just straight up Canadian fascism.

Well, maybe not most but a lot. Productive convo is impossible when it comes to subject of relocation. Can’t blame fans of team in discussion being defensive.

I mean you're talking about internet comments in this era, you're going to run into a lot of people who have opinions and want things to happen that are 100% the opposite of you. I think everyone agrees that the team-specific boards should be a safe space from die-hard relocationists but the business board is going to be free for all.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I mean you're talking about internet comments in this era, you're going to run into a lot of people who have opinions and want things to happen that are 100% the opposite of you. I think everyone agrees that the team-specific boards should be a safe space from die-hard relocationists but the business board is going to be free for all.

If you want Coyotes relocate fine, but I don’t think any argument for relocation should be just because Canada deserves another team for no good reason. All discussion should be based on business sense, not nationalism.

Nationalism is mental disorder.

This isn’t Coyotes specific. This is to anyone that constantly brings up any southern teams for no good reason.

 

[GindyDraws]

If you want Coyotes relocate fine

I just want the Coyotes to relocate, is that bad?

 

[GindyDraws]

You don't care about the business of Sports, none of you do.. you all hate the Coyotes and think that Arizona and Hockey don't belong together.

Well... 25+ years of attendance figures and lack of revenue kind of already prove that point.

 

[TheLegend]

Well... 25+ years of attendance figures and lack of revenue kind of already prove that point.

For some of those 25 years the Coyotes sat in the middle of the league in attendance.

Using your lone parameter over the last 25 years I could have made the same case for Chicago, Pittsburgh, and a couple of other teams.

 

[OG6ix]

I feel for yotes fans. Team has never been a consistent winner - never had an arena that was going to give them a chance. I still think Muerelo will shock everyone by winning the arena bid and the team is going to rebuild with some studs. If that happens I can see Matthews going back home.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I feel for yotes fans. Team has never been a consistent winner - never had an arena that was going to give them a chance. I still think Muerelo will shock everyone by winning the arena bid and the team is going to rebuild with some studs. If that happens I can see Matthews going back home.

Agreed.

 

[OG6ix]

I mean a lot of people would say having more teams in the places where hockey is the #1 sport would make good business sense. Also, since I live in Canada it would be fun to have 2-3 more teams here.

As far as nationalism goes, we don't really do that up here like the states does. Also, if someone does have a mental disorder here they can go to the doctor and have it checked out for free.

Its not every southern team. No one is suggesting the Lightening or Stars move. just the ones that don't draw well

oh god you actually think more teams in Canada is good for the sport overall? Listen, the population is only 38 million people most of it is around the greater toronto, montreal, and vancouver metros. Not many people are interested in a second GTA team, Vancouver has had issues in the past with support. Ottawa has issues now with support, Quebec moved, Winnipeg moved,. Calgary has arena issues and Edmonton almost moved to Houston. It will only marginalize the league even more to the point of no potential growth.

There will be less people wanting to own franchises at values they are now - Canada does not have billionaires like the states. Less US markets for growth (believe it not there are markets that very young and can grow over generations). If anything Canada should get more teams from other sports leagues - Hockey is stretched thin and it would be good diversifitcation.

 

[aqib]

To an extent. NHL has more teams there than any other league. At some point cities are simply too small with not enough corporate support. if you think QC meets the criteria fine. Although, people are out here acting like they know how to make money better than NHL owners when they can barely afford their monthly bills. It’s hilarious.

Absolutely untrue. Incredible amount of racists up north. Look at all the stories about trials and tribulations black players have to go through up there. Not to mention popularity of Don Cherry for all these years. Canada has their own nationalist, racist issues. US is bad so Canada is good ain’t a thing.

I have no problem with people wanting QC to have a team. Just stop telling other fans they aren’t worthy. Not that you are doing that per se but too many times on here have nationalists come in and derailed threads trolling fans of teams even like Predators and Hurricanes.

Also be consistent with attendance. Were you advocating for Blackhawks and Bruins to move when they were drawing flies?

A city being big doesn't matter if the people don't care about the sport. People advocating for the Phoenix market say how big it is but then say the arena has to be on the eastern side of the valley because that's where the fans are. Well if that's the case then the market isn't all of the Phoenix metro area its the just the eastern half.

I'm sure Steve Ellman is worth more than all of us combined but he still made a lot of bad decisions. The logic of "so-and-so is worth X and we're not so he so-and-so must know something we don't" is how you wind up with Trump as president. We might as well not have opinions on anything and just defer to people with more money if that's the case.

But if I follow your logic Jerry Moyes is worth a lot and he said the Arizona was unworkable. Jim Balsillie was worth $3 billion at one point and came the conclusion that Hamilton was a great place for an NHL team. Anytime a team in any of the major league sports comes up for sale you have billionaires jumping in to grab it but somehow the Coyotes wind up with a string of guys like Greg Jamison and Anthony LeBlanc who have to "shake a cup" as LeBlanc put it to get financing. So who is the one telling billionaires how to make money? Remember the judge in the bankruptcy case said "the way to make a small fortune is to start with a big fortune and buy an NHL team"

.

 

[aqib]

oh god you actually think more teams in Canada is good for the sport overall? Listen, the population is only 38 million people most of it is around the greater toronto, montreal, and vancouver metros. Not many people are interested in a second GTA team, Vancouver has had issues in the past with support. Ottawa has issues now with support, Quebec moved, Winnipeg moved,. Calgary has arena issues and Edmonton almost moved to Houston. It will only marginalize the league even more to the point of no potential growth.

There will be less people wanting to own franchises at values they are now - Canada does not have billionaires like the states. Less US markets for growth (believe it not there are markets that very young and can grow over generations). If anything Canada should get more teams from other sports leagues - Hockey is stretched thin and it would be good diversifitcation.

We don't need to have 400 billionaires to have 2-3 more teams here. We just need 2-3. Balsillie wasn't the only person interested in a team Hamilton. There has been a lot of interest in another GTA team but the NHL is refusing to consider it. If Southern California can have 2 teams why wouldn't the GTA be able to pull it off.

I agree we could use another MLB or NBA team in Canada. Toronto would be a good NFL market but there is a perception that it would hurt the Bills which I don't agree with. There are enough people here to support an NFL team without impacting the Bills.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Chicago and Boston have had slumps but no one has been this bad for 25 years. As far as putting a team in Quebec, yes Jacobs is against it (partly because some people in Quebec have adopted the Bruins as their team out of not wanting to be Habs fans) but we there are billionaires who want to put their own money into a team there like Karmanos for example.

No team has been as badly run and unstable as Coyotes for their entire existence either. Or Florida. Again, the bigger point being the nationalists do this for EVERY team in southern markets. Not just Coyotes and Florida.

 

[Pandemonia]

It's 2022 and the Coyotes' lease at GRA is officially terminated. I'm sure someone has already started a countdown clock until the team has to vacate the premises.

I'm curious as to where they go in the Valley. Has there been any serious commentary (and yes, I exclude the speculation and vitriol in HFBoards) as to what the Coyotes plans are now? From what I've read, it will be at least 3 years and probably 4 before a new Tempe arena will be available to them. I've seen various options laid out for where the team might play in Arizona. But my question is whether anyone in a position of authority or knowledge has advanced a suggestion for where the team will play for the next 3-4 years.

 

[royals119]

It's 2022 and the Coyotes' lease at GRA is officially terminated. I'm sure someone has already started a countdown clock until the team has to vacate the premises.

I'm curious as to where they go in the Valley. Has there been any serious commentary (and yes, I exclude the speculation and vitriol in HFBoards) as to what the Coyotes plans are now? From what I've read, it will be at least 3 years and probably 4 before a new Tempe arena will be available to them. I've seen various options laid out for where the team might play in Arizona. But my question is whether anyone in a position of authority or knowledge has advanced a suggestion for where the team will play for the next 3-4 years.

No. No one from the Coyotes or the NHL has made any definitive statements about where they will play between the end of this season and whenever the Tempe project is ready (if it ever happens). Lots of rumors and speculation, some from people with "connections" and lots of made up stuff. The various ideas have been debated pretty thoroughly over the last couple threads here.

 

[Llama19]

It's 2022 and the Coyotes' lease at GRA is officially terminated. I'm sure someone has already started a countdown clock until the team has to vacate the premises.

I'm curious as to where they go in the Valley. Has there been any serious commentary (and yes, I exclude the speculation and vitriol in HFBoards) as to what the Coyotes plans are now? From what I've read, it will be at least 3 years and probably 4 before a new Tempe arena will be available to them. I've seen various options laid out for where the team might play in Arizona. But my question is whether anyone in a position of authority or knowledge has advanced a suggestion for where the team will play for the next 3-4 years.

No one from the Coyotes organization has...which is where it should be coming from...

 

[Pandemonia]

No one from the Coyotes organization has...which is where it should be coming from...

Great, just the definitive answer I wanted. Thanks to you both.

 

[Devils 3silverones]

Project much??

Legand, happy 2022. I respect your opinion, as always.

The business side.

It is unfortunate that nothing is being said.

And unfortunately, the speculation runs deep.

Opinions matter. Facts are few and far between.

This is most of our soapopera.

Let the negatives go. It is not worth the typimg.
This was not JUST directed to you Legend.. At all.
Many posters. The wait goes on.

I enjoy reading, be well ALL.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Think everyone should chill out here. Let's see what happenens with Tempe.

 

[Digital Kid]

I was interested to read in the new Hockey News Money & Power 2022 issue that franchise valuations are generally determined or authorized by Gary Bettman, and that despite the sinkhole that they may find themselves in, the Coyotes minimum asking price would be $750 m US.

Not sure if Quebec billionaires could afford that?

I know it would then set the Nordiques' value at at least $750 m US but that is a lot of cash to find.

 

[AngryScotsman]

Too bad most of opposing POV are just straight up Canadian fascism.

Well, maybe not most but a lot. Productive convo is impossible when it comes to subject of relocation. Can’t blame fans of team in discussion being defensive.

Not sure how you can expect any different from a country where hockey is the number one sport. Plus, none of the Canadian teams were relocated due to a shortage of fan support, so naturally they will want their teams back.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Not sure how you can expect any different from a country where hockey is the number one sport. Plus, none of the Canadian teams were relocated due to a shortage of fan support, so naturally they will want their teams back.

It’s fine to want teams back. Just don’t put down other fans in the process.