CXL - UPDATE 12/9 - Coyotes settle bills after unpaid taxes come to light

[Fenway]

Continued from

CXXXIX - Arizona Coyotes looking for a home - and the band plays on



Tempe, Arizona State Fairgrounds, Houston, Salt Lake City, Quebec City

Click to read more...

 

[Fenway]

The ONLY thing we are certain of is the clock is ticking.

Tempe at best is 3 or 4 years out. Is the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum the short-term solution?

In the bad timing department, the NBA Suns have suddenly become an elite NBA team.

The joker in the deck is Ryan Smith who owns the Utah Jazz AND the arena who is rumored to be interested.

I can see the NHL waving on Phoenix for Houston but NOT for Salt Lake.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The ONLY thing we are certain of is the clock is ticking.

Tempe at best is 3 or 4 years out. Is the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum the short-term solution?

In the bad timing department, the NBA Suns have suddenly become an elite NBA team.

The joker in the deck is Ryan Smith who owns the Utah Jazz AND the arena who is rumored to be interested.

I can see the NHL waving on Phoenix for Houston but NOT for Salt Lake.





View attachment 486685

NHL isn;t going to SLC. Have you seen Jazz's arena in hockey config? Its WORSE than Barclays.

 

[Mightygoose]

The ONLY thing we are certain of is the clock is ticking.

Tempe at best is 3 or 4 years out. Is the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum the short-term solution?

In the bad timing department, the NBA Suns have suddenly become an elite NBA team.

The joker in the deck is Ryan Smith who owns the Utah Jazz AND the arena who is rumored to be interested.

I can see the NHL waving on Phoenix for Houston but NOT for Salt Lake.





View attachment 486685

Any link to the rumour that Ryan Smith is interested in the Coyotes?

First time I have heard of it

 

[OG6ix]

The ONLY thing we are certain of is the clock is ticking.

Tempe at best is 3 or 4 years out. Is the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum the short-term solution?

In the bad timing department, the NBA Suns have suddenly become an elite NBA team.

The joker in the deck is Ryan Smith who owns the Utah Jazz AND the arena who is rumored to be interested.

I can see the NHL waving on Phoenix for Houston but NOT for Salt Lake.





View attachment 486685

Have not heard of Ryan Smith as a potential owner (he would be a good get as an owner he's young and business savvy. He's also from Oregon maybe he tries to take the team to Portland?

 

[Dynamite Kid]

The 12-year agreement, announced jointly by the NHL and Rogers in a Tuesday morning press conference, is for $5.232 billion (Canadian). It's the largest media rights deal in NHL history and one of the largest media rights deals in Canadian history. It is also Canada's largest sports-media rights agreement.
The partnership between the NHL and Rogers begins with the 2014-15 season and runs through the 2025-26 season.

^^^^^ This may be the reason for an all Canadian division. It's almost time to renew! Clever scheduling can make it work; and for some reason people assume the Canadian teams wouldn't play the American teams. Of course they would, unless there is another lock down.

I'm not saying they will do this, but there definitely is incentive.

 

[OG6ix]

The 12-year agreement, announced jointly by the NHL and Rogers in a Tuesday morning press conference, is for $5.232 billion (Canadian). It's the largest media rights deal in NHL history and one of the largest media rights deals in Canadian history. It is also Canada's largest sports-media rights agreement.
The partnership between the NHL and Rogers begins with the 2014-15 season and runs through the 2025-26 season.

^^^^^ This may be the reason for an all Canadian division. It's almost time to renew! Clever scheduling can make it work; and for some reason people assume the Canadian teams wouldn't play the American teams. Of course they would, unless there is another lock down.

I'm not saying they will do this, but there definitely is incentive.

Doubt it matters what the TV partners in Canada may want. Not having a Canadian division won't change the next rights deals - Rogers losing money on the deal might bring it down but who knows.

 

[Mightygoose]

Have not heard of Ryan Smith as a potential owner (he would be a good get as an owner he's young and business savvy. He's also from Oregon maybe he tries to take the team to Portland?

If Smith owns the team it would make more sense to play in Salt Lake City since he owns the arena as opposed to paying rent in Portland.

I have my doubts that he would want to pay what the NHL wants, apparently he balked at the price for Real Salt Lake when they were for sale.

 

[LPHabsFan]

The other thing people have to remember/think about is the debt factor. I believe that it's been a long standing assumptions that a lot of the previous "sale prices" have been mostly if not all the new owners taking over the debt of the previous owner(s). Another element would be that any sale price I believe inclused some sort of market difference calculation and I believe that was the case for Atlanta/Winnipeg as well. That money if I'm not mistaken would be more likely to go to the league rather than the previous owner. So in terms of the "sale" price, it's a guarantee that the announced price wouldn't be so simple as saying Muruelo bought it at X and sold it for Y and that's the profit.

 

[Ernie]

The joker in the deck is Ryan Smith who owns the Utah Jazz AND the arena who is rumored to be interested.

I can see the NHL waving on Phoenix for Houston but NOT for Salt Lake

Interesting. The Jazz are listed by Forbes as being worth $1.75, while the Suns are worth $2bn. So the difference in the markets may not be so great.

Clearly the NHL would prefer Houston and even Portland. But if the NHL needs a fast relocation option I could see Ryan Smith being able to outbid QC, with the added benefit that there would be no needed changes to the divisions.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Vivint Arena, section 111, row 2, seat 5 - Los Angeles Kings vs Vegas Golden Knights, shared by moviegal Brooklyn at least had one section of unobstructed seats on the lower level near an attack zone.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Okay, so from the last thread...

I don't know where this assertion comes from. Quebecor is a public company. You can look at their financial statements and see they clearly had enough cash in the bank to cut a $500 million check.

Quebecor is indeed a public company.

Go to SEDAR.com, which is the electronic document filing system for public companies in Canada. You can't link directly because it requires a CAPTCHA-like proof you're a human, but you can indeed check out their financial statements. As of December 31, 2016 it had a total of $22 million in cash. As of December 31, 2015 it was $18 million.

Now that doesn't necessarily tell you that much - no company would want to be sitting on that much money in cash - you'd want to invest it somehow. But if you look at their total assets they're listed at $9.262 billion - but that's perfectly matched by total liabilities of $9.262 billion. According to their own balance sheet Quebecor had no net value at all at that time.

PKP and Quebecor would very clearly needed financing to buy an NHL franchise back in 2015-2016.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

PKP and Quebecor would very clearly needed financing to buy an NHL franchise back in 2015-2016.

Is that generally frowned upon by the league?

 

[rojac]

The 12-year agreement, announced jointly by the NHL and Rogers in a Tuesday morning press conference, is for $5.232 billion (Canadian). It's the largest media rights deal in NHL history and one of the largest media rights deals in Canadian history. It is also Canada's largest sports-media rights agreement.
The partnership between the NHL and Rogers begins with the 2014-15 season and runs through the 2025-26 season.

^^^^^ This may be the reason for an all Canadian division. It's almost time to renew! Clever scheduling can make it work; and for some reason people assume the Canadian teams wouldn't play the American teams. Of course they would, unless there is another lock down.

I'm not saying they will do this, but there definitely is incentive.

Is there really an incentive? I'm not so sure.

Let's make some assumptions. Let's assume a schedule matrix similar to the current one. I'm also assuming the following divisional placement of Canadian teams.

Canadian Scenario: Canadian division with VAN, EDM, CAL, WIN, TOR, OTT, MON, QUE.
Mixed Scenario: Pacific: VAN, EDM,CAL; Central: WIN; Atlantic: TOR, OTT, MON, QUE; Metro: None

Let's assume both scenarios have a regular season schedule similar to the current one.

Let's also assume that Canadian Scenario has fully divisional playoffs (top 4 teams make playoffs, 1 vs. 4, 2 vs 3, winners play for divisional championship) with the 4 division winners meeting in 2 semifinals similar to last year.

===

In the regular season, the Canadian scenario gives you a few more games with 2 Canadian teams. But those come at the expense of games between a Canadian team and an American team. Is TOR vs. WIN better for Rogers than TOR vs. FLA and WIN vs. DAL (let's assume both are on a night with national broadcasts)? Maybe. It might be a wash.

The Canadian broadcast partner often picks up games between 2 American teams as filler. Do those game better viewership if the teams are fighting for playoff spots with Canadian teams?

Now, let's look at the playoffs:

In the Canadian scenario, you would always get 4 Canadian teams in the playoffs, no more, no less. In the mixed scenario, you could get 0-8 Canadian teams in the playoffs.

In the first round, the Canadian scenario give you 2 series, each with 2 Canadian teams. The mixed scenario could give you anywhere from 0 to 8 series featuring at least 1 Canadian team.

In the second round, Canadian scenario yields 1 series with 2 Canadian teams. The mixed scenario yields 0 to 4 series with a Canadian team.

In the third round, the Canadian scenario gives you 1 series with a Canadian team. The mixed scenario gives you 0 to 2.

Finally, in both scenarios, you could have 0 or 1 Canadian teams in the SCF.

===

Which is better? The Canadian scenario always gives you 2 first round, 1 second round, and 1 third round Canadian series. The mixed scenario gives you 0 to 8 first round series with a Canadian team, 0 to 4 second round series, and 0 or 1 third series. Both have the possibility of a Canadian team in the SCF.

So, the Canadian scenario gives 4 or 5 series with a Canadian team, while the mixed scenario gives you 0-15 series with a Canadian team. Basically, the Canadian scenario is better if Canadian teams are almost all bad, while the mixed scenario is probably better if at least 3 or 4 Canadian teams are good.

So, whether a Canadian broadcast partner prefers the Canadian scenario or the mixed scenario probably depends on how good they think Canadian teams are going to be over the life of the contract.

Just as a point of interest, here are the number of series per round for the normal playoff years since Rogers got the contract.

2019: 2,0,0,0
2018: 2,0,0,0
2017: 5,2,1,0
2016: 0,0,0,0
2015: 3,2,0,0
2014: 1,1,1,0

 

[PCSPounder]

Is that generally frowned upon by the league?

If you need financing, you’ll generally be unable to handle things like, say, the league having to take over the Coyotes (or, further back, perhaps the Islanders) because ownership defaulted. Leagues need owners with liquidity to deal with surprises, court actions, etc.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Is that generally frowned upon by the league?

You know the answer to this - no of course not.

But the question is whether Quebecor can get that much financing, and at what kind of terms. Money borrowed has to be paid back after all...

 

[decma]

Okay, so from the last thread...

Now that doesn't necessarily tell you that much - no company would want to be sitting on that much money in cash - you'd want to invest it somehow. But if you look at their total assets they're listed at $9.262 billion - but that's perfectly matched by total liabilities of $9.262 billion. According to their own balance sheet Quebecor had no net value at all at that time.

The $9.262 billion is liabilities and equity (by definition, assets = liabilities + equity). Quebecor had $847 million in net value (equity).

Assets: $9.262 billion
Liabilities: $8.415 billion
Equity: $0.847 billion

 

[Dynamite Kid]

The $9.262 billion is liabilities and equity (by definition, assets = liabilities + equity). Quebecor had $847 million in net value (equity).

Assets: $9.262 billion
Liabilities: $8.415 billion
Equity: $0.847 billion

And now Peter Karmanos has stated he would also invest in the team.......almost as if he knew this would happen

 

[gstommylee]

Doubt it matters what the TV partners in Canada may want. Not having a Canadian division won't change the next rights deals - Rogers losing money on the deal might bring it down but who knows.

A canada only division is not going to happen. Thats too big of an alignment change that teams will want just for the sake of quebec.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Okay, so from the last thread...



Quebecor is indeed a public company.

Go to SEDAR.com, which is the electronic document filing system for public companies in Canada. You can't link directly because it requires a CAPTCHA-like proof you're a human, but you can indeed check out their financial statements. As of December 31, 2016 it had a total of $22 million in cash. As of December 31, 2015 it was $18 million.

Now that doesn't necessarily tell you that much - no company would want to be sitting on that much money in cash - you'd want to invest it somehow. But if you look at their total assets they're listed at $9.262 billion - but that's perfectly matched by total liabilities of $9.262 billion. According to their own balance sheet Quebecor had no net value at all at that time.

PKP and Quebecor would very clearly needed financing to buy an NHL franchise back in 2015-2016.

It looks a little better as of 9/30/21, $480M in the bank! I'd be more concerned about the $6.2B outstanding long-term debt, no clue what this company is, but they have $2.7B out of $10.5B in assets(25%) as goodwill, which is a highly subjective number in Accounting terms.

 

[TheLegend]

The ONLY thing we are certain of is the clock is ticking.

Tempe at best is 3 or 4 years out. Is the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum the short-term solution?

In the bad timing department, the NBA Suns have suddenly become an elite NBA team.

The joker in the deck is Ryan Smith who owns the Utah Jazz AND the arena who is rumored to be interested.

I can see the NHL waving on Phoenix for Houston but NOT for Salt Lake.





View attachment 486685

Other than Utah has been declared Bill Foley’s turf. A move there would involved compensation of some sort (or they offer Arizona.

But the Forbes report specifically mentioned Houston and that smells like Tillman Fertitta planting a story.

 

[TheLegend]

BTW….. this thread isn’t even a page long and it’s already evolved into another Quebec City/Canada discussion.

There are already no less than THREE active threads on this subject in this forum. It would be nice if people would stop hijacking every other thread along with it.

 

[gstommylee]

BTW….. this thread isn’t even a page long and it’s already evolved into another Quebec City/Canada discussion.

There are already no less than THREE active threads on this subject in this forum. It would be nice if people would stop hijacking every other thread along with it.

Agreed the focus should be on the coyotes and the tempe arena efforts nothing else.

 

[aqib]

And now Peter Karmanos has stated he would also invest in the team.......almost as if he knew this would happen

Didn't he sell the Hurricanes for estate planning purposes. So why would he buy into another team?

 

[hockeyguy0022]

The ONLY thing we are certain of is the clock is ticking.

Tempe at best is 3 or 4 years out. Is the Arizona Veterans Memorial Coliseum the short-term solution?

In the bad timing department, the NBA Suns have suddenly become an elite NBA team.

The joker in the deck is Ryan Smith who owns the Utah Jazz AND the arena who is rumored to be interested.

I can see the NHL waving on Phoenix for Houston but NOT for Salt Lake.





View attachment 486685

Interesting, in my head I always thought some of those cities were bigger then per say, Calgary/Edmonton/Winnipeg, but not really. (Unless you add in surrounding area of course)