Prospect Info: Cut bait

[Ezekial]

He's almost 23. Not like he's 20. He should be showing positive development, but he's been pretty stagnant the last two seasons.

"He's almost 23" and we didn't get to watch him play when he was 22, like at all, due to covid.

 

[ricky0034]

Cutting bait with prospects?? Not any 1/2 decent reason to do it. Not at this point.

But if you put a gun to m head
Fulcher.
Hicketts..
Draper.
Bradley.
Setkov.
Holway.

People choosing Svechnikov after 20 NHL games... yikes.
Cholo too.
I really can't understand it.

Defensemen sometimes take until they're 23-24, 25 to mature and figure it out.
We just signed Jon Merrill... a 28 year old who still hasn't completely stuck. Yet we signed him.
We just signed Troy Stecher. He didn't win a job until he was 22 - same age as Cholowski.
Dekeyser was basically 23 when he made the NHL.
Nemeth was 25 before he played more than 40 NHL games in a season.

It's quite possible Cholowski fizzles out. Svech too.
But there's no good reason not to give them every opportunity to make it.

We're a better organization of Cholowski becomes an NHL defenseman and Svech becomes a middle six winger.

Svechnikov is a 24 year old Winger that is no longer immune to waivers and hasn't even managed to be in the top 5 of his team in scoring in the AHL in either of the past 2 years(or even hit 0.5 PPG in either of the past 2 years)

sure give him a look in camp or whatever but he's done absolutely nothing in the past couple years to even remotely warrant being just fed a roster spot to avoid waiving him(which I view as "cutting bait" when it inevitably happens if the Wings don't try and force it just to keep him around)

sure maybe he can be a AHL lifer if he doesn't want to go back to Russia why not

 

[19 for president]

Svechnikov is a 24 year old Winger that is no longer immune to waivers and hasn't even managed to be in the top 5 of his team in scoring in the AHL in either of the past 2 years(or even hit 0.5 PPG in either of the past 2 years)

sure give him a look in camp or whatever but he's done absolutely nothing in the past couple years to even remotely warrant being just fed a roster spot to avoid waiving him(which I view as "cutting bait" when it inevitably happens if the Wings don't try and force it just to keep him around)

sure maybe he can be a AHL lifer if he doesn't want to go back to Russia why not

I don't think you can understate the injuries he has had to deal with though either. The last one usually takes almost a full year to get back up to speed. When he's played in the NHL, he has looked like an NHLer. I don't think he is going to hit those top 6 projects we originally had for him, but I think he could be a really good 3rd line guy with the a little offensive pop. I'm not cutting good players for him, but the Wings have plenty of known bad that can be cut or waived to give him a shot if he is healthy. This coming season would largely be make it or break for him as a Wing though.

I think some players look better as NHLers than the lower leagues. I really like Giovani Smith too in a bottom line role. Neither he nor Svech lit the world on fire in GR but I think they could be good cheap players in the NHL.

 

[odin1981]

The pittance of what we'd get in pick(s) for Cholo isn't worth selling low Vs. potential #4/5 PMD...granted he's likely more a bust, or #6ish PMD who is poor defensively etc. I'd do a change of scenery trade for another young LD/C prospect now though. Dennis is soft & maybe doesn't process the game @ NHL speed. Worst case scenario, let him finish this season & see if he rebounds or package him.

Svech's make it or break it year is now. I'm rooting for the kid (& all DRW prospects), but with the logjam on wing...by TDL maybe package Cholo & Svech + 3rd? for a better prospect.

Hirose trade/package him now. Lots of teams need a #12/13 F @ $minimum. Hicketts too.

I think Svech could get one more year past this due to the two acl tears.

 

[MBH]

Svechnikov is a 24 year old Winger that is no longer immune to waivers and hasn't even managed to be in the top 5 of his team in scoring in the AHL in either of the past 2 years(or even hit 0.5 PPG in either of the past 2 years)

sure give him a look in camp or whatever but he's done absolutely nothing in the past couple years to even remotely warrant being just fed a roster spot to avoid waiving him(which I view as "cutting bait" when it inevitably happens if the Wings don't try and force it just to keep him around)

sure maybe he can be a AHL lifer if he doesn't want to go back to Russia why not

So? Absolutely give him a look. Give him a spot in the lineup.
This team gifted Hirose a lineup job. This team gifted Perlini and Erne spots in the lineup.
No f***ing reason we can't do for Svech.

 

[MBH]

Just need to play devil's advocate for a quick second. And this isn't to say I disagree with you on Svechnikov, because I would like to see him get a legitimate shot (although that might not happen in Detroit).

You listed two players who were drafted like 45 days ago, and you're going to start to complain about the sample size of a player drafted 5 years ago, has a history of significant injuries, which in part has played a role in his inability to lock down even a semi-regular bottom 6 role despite a first round pedigree?

This would be an example of hypocrisy.

The players we drafted 45 days ago are late rounders with not much skill.
I've seen enough of Svech and Cholo wearing the winged wheel, whether in the NHL or preseason, to make me want to give them real opportunities before we shit them away.

 

[MBH]

I think Svech could get one more year past this due to the two acl tears.

Just one year. Give hm 50 games in the NHL. What does it hurt?
Who is screaming for a top 9 winger job?

 

[MBH]

He's almost 23. Not like he's 20. He should be showing positive development, but he's been pretty stagnant the last two seasons.

He's actually gone backwards, if you think about wear he was at the start of 18-19 and how impressive he looked.
But that hot streak.

I don't think Cholowski is ever going to be a great defenseman. But I'd settled passable 2-way D who can help on a powerplay unit.
There's literally nothing in front of him under contract with the Red Wings. What does it hurt to play him for 2 more years and find out?

 

[Hen Kolland]

The players we drafted 45 days ago are late rounders with not much skill.
I've seen enough of Svech and Cholo wearing the winged wheel, whether in the NHL or preseason, to make me want to give them real opportunities before we shit them away.

I mean I guess the greater point would be, why would someone drafted a month and a half ago ever show up on a cut bait list. Throw them down in their development league, let them play, and see what happens. Just seems like there’s ill intent to even include their names at this stage.

 

[Gniwder]

He's actually gone backwards, if you think about wear he was at the start of 18-19 and how impressive he looked.
But that hot streak.

I don't think Cholowski is ever going to be a great defenseman. But I'd settled passable 2-way D who can help on a powerplay unit.
There's literally nothing in front of him under contract with the Red Wings. What does it hurt to play him for 2 more years and find out?

My keyboard? Watching him play makes me want to throw up.

He's not going to learn anything in the NHL anyways, the game is too fast and physical for him. If anything, it would have been great if he had played in the SHL, alongside a guy like Seider.... He needs to learn in a lower league.

 

[MBH]

My keyboard? Watching him play makes me want to throw up.

He's not going to learn anything in the NHL anyways, the game is too fast and physical for him. If anything, it would have been great if he had played in the SHL, alongside a guy like Seider.... He needs to learn in a lower league.

Oh, OK. Your keyboard must have loved Bowey, or all those turnovers by Hronek. Or the god awful play of Daley and Ericsson these last two years.
Your keyboard's gonna love Marc Staal. And Jon Merril. And Troy Stecher. And Kevin Biega.

Time for the Wings to stop telling the guy to focus on being assertive defensively.
He was drafted as a softish, unphysical defenseman with skating and some offensive tools.
But at 5 on 5, he produces no offense. Maybe because we're telling him to play a game he can't play. Get out of the kid's head and develop the things you liked about him, and try to bring the rest of his game to a decent level.

 

[MBH]

I mean I guess the greater point would be, why would someone drafted a month and a half ago ever show up on a cut bait list. Throw them down in their development league, let them play, and see what happens. Just seems like there’s ill intent to even include their names at this stage.

Maybe you missed my first line

Cutting bait with prospects?? Not any 1/2 decent reason to do it. Not at this point.

But if you put a gun to my head
Fulcher.
Hicketts..
Draper.
Bradley.
Setkov.
Holway.

Ill intent. WTF? Where do you come up with this?
Those are the prospects I have the least hope for. So if I had to dump some (and I don't, so I wouldn't) those would be the guys. Simple as that.
"Ill intent."

 

[Gniwder]

Oh, OK. Your keyboard must have loved Bowey, or all those turnovers by Hronek. Or the god awful play of Daley and Ericsson these last two years.
Your keyboard's gonna love Marc Staal. And Jon Merril. And Troy Stecher. And Kevin Biega.

Time for the Wings to stop telling the guy to focus on being assertive defensively.
He was drafted as a softish, unphysical defenseman with skating and some offensive tools.
But at 5 on 5, he produces no offense. Maybe because we're telling him to play a game he can't play. Get out of the kid's head and develop the things you liked about him, and try to bring the rest of his game to a decent level.

My monitor hated Biega. My forehead hated Bowey. Daley and Ericsson aren't even worth talking about. You just close the laptop and walk away, lol. They had no business being in the NHL.

Hronek will figure things out, he's got enough good things going. He can simplify his game a bit when he gets an NHL level partner.

I will probably hate Staal, though he's supposed to be a good PKer, and if he excels at just that, he gets some leeway. I think Stecher and Merrill are going to be better than you think. But those guys are just fill-ins anyways.

Regardless, you're missing the point. The NHL is so far over Cholo's head that playing in the league doesn't help his development. You can tell that shit's just coming at him too hard and too fast to handle.

 

[MBH]

My monitor hated Biega. My forehead hated Bowey. Daley and Ericsson aren't even worth talking about. You just close the laptop and walk away, lol. They had no business being in the NHL.

Hronek will figure things out, he's got enough good things going. He can simplify his game a bit when he gets an NHL level partner.

I will probably hate Staal, though he's supposed to be a good PKer, and if he excels at just that, he gets some leeway. I think Stecher and Merrill are going to be better than you think. But those guys are just fill-ins anyways.

Regardless, you're missing the point. The NHL is so far over Cholo's head that playing in the league doesn't help his development. You can tell that shit's just coming at him too hard and too fast to handle.

Yeah, I don't think he's as far away as you, I guess.

Look, I don't want to get painted into some corner where people think I'm super high on Cholowski. I'm not.
But 100 times out of 100, I want to play Cholowski at LD more than just about any other LD we have.
We've got nothing to lose and a lot to gain.
Even if he makes our defense slightly worse, or goaltending is much improved.

 

[Gniwder]

Yeah, I don't think he's as far away as you, I guess.

Look, I don't want to get painted into some corner where people think I'm super high on Cholowski. I'm not.
But 100 times out of 100, I want to play Cholowski at LD more than just about any other LD we have.
We've got nothing to lose and a lot to gain.
Even if he makes our defense slightly worse, or goaltending is much improved.

DDK - Hronek
Nemeth - Stecher
Staal/Merill - Lindstrom/Merill
Biega

Don't really need Cholo until DDK gets injured again.

The biggest issue with Cholo now is that the league knows he's soft, and will take advantage of that every game. Soft defensemen rarely last long in the NHL, that's why he's on my cut bait list.

 

[Winger98]

Maybe you missed my first line

Cutting bait with prospects?? Not any 1/2 decent reason to do it. Not at this point.

But if you put a gun to my head
Fulcher.
Hicketts..
Draper.
Bradley.
Setkov.
Holway.

Ill intent. WTF? Where do you come up with this?
Those are the prospects I have the least hope for. So if I had to dump some (and I don't, so I wouldn't) those would be the guys. Simple as that.
"Ill intent."

Holway was looking so good until whatever issues popped up that forced him to walk away from hockey for about a year (and then the NCAA being, well, what they are when they wouldn't let him play immediately after he transferred). I'm hoping we see him in camp in a year and maybe earn a spot at GR.

 

[TheMule93]

what even is cut bait

 

[Hen Kolland]

Maybe you missed my first line

Cutting bait with prospects?? Not any 1/2 decent reason to do it. Not at this point.

But if you put a gun to my head
Fulcher.
Hicketts..
Draper.
Bradley.
Setkov.
Holway.

Ill intent. WTF? Where do you come up with this?
Those are the prospects I have the least hope for. So if I had to dump some (and I don't, so I wouldn't) those would be the guys. Simple as that.
"Ill intent."

You can’t even have an honest discussion on things without blowing something way out of proportion when someone calls you out for an inconsistent line of thinking.

By ill intent, I was getting at your reasoning being fueled by dishonest or the wrong reasons. You didn’t like the draft picks, so you are prepared to throw them in the trash for zero legitimate reasons. Hell, like most other people here, you’ve likely never seen 5 minutes of consistent gameplay from either kid to have developed such a negative opinion.

I will reiterate, there’s no reason that anyone from the 2020 draft class should have even been on the radar for this question. Outside of Raymond, they are so far away from being relevant to the team, and we are so far away from having to make decisions on them; just let them develop on their track, wait and see.

 

[MBH]

You can’t even have an honest discussion on things without blowing something way out of proportion when someone calls you out for an inconsistent line of thinking.

By ill intent, I was getting at your reasoning being fueled by dishonest or the wrong reasons. You didn’t like the draft picks, so you are prepared to throw them in the trash for zero legitimate reasons. Hell, like most other people here, you’ve likely never seen 5 minutes of consistent gameplay from either kid to have developed such a negative opinion.

I will reiterate, there’s no reason that anyone from the 2020 draft class should have even been on the radar for this question. Outside of Raymond, they are so far away from being relevant to the team, and we are so far away from having to make decisions on them; just let them develop on their track, wait and see.

I offered an opinion - along the lines of the thread.
You don't like the opinion and accuse me of opinions fueled by dishonesty.
And then you accuse me of being incapable of having an honest discussion and blowing things out of proportion.

Rich.


Again - I wouldn't cut bait with any prospects.
But if someone said to me, MBH, you have to cut bait with x number of prospects to stay within league rules - that's who I'd pick.
Sorry it doesn't fit your expectation.

Try civility.

 

[odin1981]

what even is cut bait

A term that means to cut loose or let go of.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

what even is cut bait

Cut your losses.

 

[Gniwder]

I wonder if the NHL extends waiver exemptions if the AHL doesn't play this season.... similar to how Svech got his medical extension. If they don't play, the year shouldn't count, right?

 

[Leadzedder]

As per cap friendly... we are showing 45/50 contracts. Who needs one? Maybe Timashov? Regardless, we dont need contract slots so no reason to move anyone this year.

As for waivers, the only guy there that’s worth discussion is Svech. Would you waive him? I wouldn’t. Give him a spot. See how he plays this year.

The only other consideration would be to trade a prospect. Svech, Cholo. I’m not sure anyone else has value. Actually they don’t really have value either. The return wouldn’t even be worth it.

But they are both former first rounders. And they’ve hit the shit or get off the pot phase. May as well give them the year.

So, I would cut zero bait.



Side question.... who loses waiver exemption next year? Looks like that might be a larger ordeal.

 

[Mister Ed]

I would trade Hirose for a goalie prospect. You can never get too many of those.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I would trade Hirose for a goalie prospect. You can never get too many of those.

Is there any rule that specifically states that only 1 of the skaters on the ice for your team can be in goalie gear?