Prospect Info: Cut bait

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Who are your prospects that you would deal or just let go?

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[ricky0034]

Svechnikov

 

[NotLeddy]

Svechnikov, Cholowski, Hicketts, Fulcher

 

[ricky0034]

Svechnikov, Cholowski, Hicketts, Fulcher

heh kinda forgot Hicketts was even still around

Fulcher has some potential value just to have a signed Goalie to expose in the expansion draft(he's still on his ELC plus they have to meet certain games played requirements which apparently Fulcher does)

Cholowski isn't looking promising at this point but i'd probably still keep him around for another year,he's still waiver exempt so might as well start him off in the AHL assuming there's a season and see where it goes from there

 

[Henkka]

Cholowski proably.

Still like to see healthy Svechnikov regularily in NHL.

 

[TheMule93]

I really wonder who is to blame for cholo. Blashill? Maybe cholo himself... He looked so damn good the opening 10 or so games a few years back... Can't believe he's cut bait at this point

 

[Gniwder]

I really wonder who is to blame for cholo. Blashill? Maybe cholo himself... He looked so damn good the opening 10 or so games a few years back... Can't believe he's cut bait at this point

Hirose looked good for 10 games as well, but as soon as the league figured out he's weak AF, they just started running over him. Same with Cholo.

It is indeed Blashill's fault, he should have kept Cholo in GR until he grew a pair. Doesn't mean that he would have turned into an all star, but at least he would understand that hockey is a contact sport before being brought up.

I was never impressed with Cholo, said it all along and most of you argued with me.


As far as cutting bait, Cholo, Svech if his knee isn't 100%, Turgeon, Hirose (unless GR wants to keep him), and Fulcher.

I'd also like to see Blash, Disco Dan, and Biega gone as well, lol.

 

[Henkka]

Doug Houda is the biggest to blaim in Cholowski's case.

The guy who operates with defencemen, as former NHL defenceman, is the guy to go.

We have seen only horrible results with young guys, even Hronek isn't good defensively.

No wonder Yzerman gives now more developmental role for Kronwall.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Well, no need to dump anyone if we're not up against contract/roster limits and need to make room.

I'd give Cholo another chance. I want to see him in a sheltered role with guys like Dekeyser, Seider, Nemeth around him. I can't really figure him out, but last season he looked like he taken a major step back in my eyes actually. Still see too much upside and we are too weak on LHD to not give him every chance.

 

[ricky0034]

I really wonder who is to blame for cholo. Blashill? Maybe cholo himself... He looked so damn good the opening 10 or so games a few years back... Can't believe he's cut bait at this point

I don't think that there's really any one reason but bouncing around between the AHL and NHL as much as he has sure hasn't helped

f***ing pick one you know?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I really wonder who is to blame for cholo. Blashill? Maybe cholo himself... He looked so damn good the opening 10 or so games a few years back... Can't believe he's cut bait at this point

He isn't cut bait. That is just fans being impatient and unrealistic about a kid who was always a project. He has played all of two seasons of professional hockey. He clearly needs to have a major mental shift in terms of how he approaches play in the defensive zone but he isn't done developing as a player. This isn't an issue of coaching but an issue of what is between the ears. There is no question that he must become more assertive without the puck and needs to show much more urgency on a consistent basis. He will never be a great one-on-one defender, but we don't need him to be great, just passable at this point.

Now that I think about it, I don't think he is ever really cut bait. He is at worst AHL depth until he hits unrestricted free agency.

 

[muchbetterthanlada]

Not playing hockey for 10 months due to covid seems to have hurt Cholo's stock on this board more than any number of on ice mistakes ever could...

 

[kliq]

He isn't cut bait. That is just fans being impatient and unrealistic about a kid who was always a project. He has played all of two seasons of professional hockey. He clearly needs to have a major mental shift in terms of how he approaches play in the defensive zone but he isn't done developing as a player. This isn't an issue of coaching but an issue of what is between the ears. There is no question that he must become more assertive without the puck and needs to show much more urgency on a consistent basis. He will never be a great one-on-one defender, but we don't need him to be great, just passable at this point.

Now that I think about it, I don't think he is ever really cut bait. He is at worst AHL depth until he hits unrestricted free agency.

I think some also forget that the kids only 22 years old. We all saw a couple of years ago that there is something there, and like many have said, he has always been considered a project. He very well may end up being a forgotten prospect like Sproul, Jurco etc. though I think it's way to early to determine that.

I also agree with your last point, its not like he has a high cap hit, worst case he can play in the AHL as a depth D until we need the spot for another prospect.

 

[Shaman464]

Not playing hockey for 10 months due to covid seems to have hurt Cholo's stock on this board more than any number of on ice mistakes ever could...

Wut? Dude played himself off of the worst defense in the NHL in recent memory.

 

[jaster]

Funny how anytime a prospect or young player "doesn't make it," it's someone's "fault." Who should we blame for Alexander Daigle being a dud?

Look, some kids just can't hack it. They don't have what it takes. Fans overlook the "between the ears" factor, but you have to have the right mind to be successful at the pinnacle of any profession, hockey included. You can have the skill. You can even have the work ethic. But the mental toughness, sometimes seen in the form of compete, sometimes seen in the form of not dwelling on your mistakes, sometimes seen in the form of problem solving.... is real. If Cholo doesn't make it, who's fault is it? Maybe a coach. Maybe Cholo's. Or maybe he just never had what it takes to begin with. The answer is rarely obvious, but none of us are even remotely close enough to the process to know in most cases. To think otherwise is just hubris.

Based on what is known of Cholowski's situation, I suspect he may just not have "it." He still has a chance to succeed and I certainly hope he does, but he couldn't beat out Madison Bowey, and Madison Bowey is one of the worst [formerly] regular defenseman I've ever seen in the NHL.

 

[muchbetterthanlada]

Wut? Dude played himself off of the worst defense in the NHL in recent memory.

yeah, that's what the word is around here..

but I think the logic for sending Cholo to the AHL was more about minutes and development, rather than him being any worse than most of the other D-Men on the roster.

 

[jaster]

yeah, that's what the word is around here..

but I think the logic for sending Cholo to the AHL was more about minutes and development, rather than him being any worse than most of the other D-Men on the roster.

It's kind of one in the same. But to your point, Cholowski shouldn't be "given up on" yet, due to the fact that he's still developing and could still possibly become a valuable asset as part of a trade, if nothing else. And I'm not even a fan of the kid. But he's not a full-blown bust yet, so throwing him away is just poor asset management.

 

[Shaman464]

yeah, that's what the word is around here..

but I think the logic for sending Cholo to the AHL was more about minutes and development, rather than him being any worse than most of the other D-Men on the roster.

No, it wasn't. It was because he was struggling to play at the NHL level. Its pretty apparent you're not one to watch the Wings, or even look at stats. Cholo averaged nearly 20 minutes a game when was in Detroit. He was getting all the minutes, and very sheltered minutes at that. Even at the AHL level though he was something like -15 over 30 games, being 4th worst on the team, and the only one to be worse than -10 with less than 45 games played.

 

[Retire91]

I don't think we need to cut anyone we don't really need room, however Yzerman is pretty darned good at winning lower tier trades. I wouldn't mind seeing Cholowski / Svechnikov shopped for something Yzerman sees more value in.

 

[jaster]

ennis Cholowski doesn't know how to play defense. As a defenseman, that is not good.

 

[Winger98]

ennis Cholowski doesn't know how to play defense. As a defenseman, that is not good.

I think he looks timid, scared of being beat. Maybe I'm off, but watching him I'd swear there were times he would see a play developing, you'd see him actually turn and look at where he should go and where the play would go....and then he'd hesitate and back off. He would play to try not to let anything horrible happen, settling for just trying to keep up and break even on a play when he could have stepped up and snuffed it early and maybe gotten things going the other way.

It's something that I think he could have better worked on at GR where the mistakes of being forced out of that comfort zone wouldn't be costing the Wings goals and getting him on the bad side of Blahill.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

The pittance of what we'd get in pick(s) for Cholo isn't worth selling low Vs. potential #4/5 PMD...granted he's likely more a bust, or #6ish PMD who is poor defensively etc. I'd do a change of scenery trade for another young LD/C prospect now though. Dennis is soft & maybe doesn't process the game @ NHL speed. Worst case scenario, let him finish this season & see if he rebounds or package him.

Svech's make it or break it year is now. I'm rooting for the kid (& all DRW prospects), but with the logjam on wing...by TDL maybe package Cholo & Svech + 3rd? for a better prospect.

Hirose trade/package him now. Lots of teams need a #12/13 F @ $minimum. Hicketts too.

 

[muchbetterthanlada]

No, it wasn't. It was because he was struggling to play at the NHL level. Its pretty apparent you're not one to watch the Wings, or even look at stats. Cholo averaged nearly 20 minutes a game when was in Detroit. He was getting all the minutes, and very sheltered minutes at that. Even at the AHL level though he was something like -15 over 30 games, being 4th worst on the team, and the only one to be worse than -10 with less than 45 games played.

hah, thanks for that remark.. I've watched every Wings game for the past 10 years+, could it be that we just see the game differently?

I know you think Cholo is chopped liver, we all know it.. but I believe he's someone who has the potential to be a really good player. As for stats, I do look at them.. not really into advanced stats, but in Cholowski's case they seem to tell the story of a decent enough player who has had pretty terrible 'luck' so far in his career.

Since you pointed to +/-, let's also look at E+/- (expected +/-, based on shot location for/ against at even strength)

	GP		E +/-		+/-
Cholo	88		-1.9*		-46
Nemeth	64		-5.5		-10
Hronek	111		-18.7		-48
Bowey	70		-20.3		-20
Daley	164		-33.2		-20

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

There are other numbers that indicate more of the same, but I don't think there's much point in delving further into this.. Cholowski was always a project.. at the draft, Holland said they were going to "tuck him away in college for 3-4 years". If they had stuck to that, Cholowski would have had his rookie year in the NHL this coming season.. I think he's still a very good prospect, that the criticism on this forum has been overblown, and that it would be foolish to rush to write him off at this point... let's hope he can have a good 2021.

edit: * misread the E+/- on Cholowski... it should be -1.0, not -1.9

 

[Ezekial]

I don't know what is to be gained by cutting bait on Cholowski right now.

 

[Gniwder]

I think he looks timid, scared of being touched.

FTFY.

He avoids any contact, and his decision making process is too slow for the NHL. I think we're noticing the same thing. I picked up on it right away while everyone else thought he was the next Rafalski.


Note:
When I said cut bait, I mean let him go through waivers when his exemption runs out (21-22 season). If there's no improvement during that season, I wouldn't bother re-signing him.

He's 3rd pair D at best, dime a dozen. You can pick up guys like Merrill or Stecher in FA.