Player Discussion Curtis Lazar appreciation thread

[DrEasy]

Funny after his firs t~20 games everyone was talking about how engaged he was and that passion was there. Hitting everything. Hunting people down. This team sucked the life out of him.
Now. Did we turn a ppg 30 goal center into a dud. Absolutely not. But we sucked the love of the game of the kid. I've never seen a kid play scared like that. Only other comparable was gagner in Edmonton. Although gagner was and is much more skilled. Just played frightened.

He's been at the wrong end of a few big hits too. Maybe it has affected his play. Had he honed his game in the AHL, against usually slower but still physical players, maybe he would have been better prepared to anticipate those hits.

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Maybe we should have a deprecating thread instead so we can knock the crap out of the player we just traded.

- Yes he was a 1st round pick but we screwed you guys in CGY by getting a 2nd mid-pick. We'd have been happy with a 7th
- Wanna see a trick? Drop some leftovers the kid eats off the floor.
- We never did like that stupid grin he always has on his face he looks like the guy who is the butt of the joke but who doesn't get it
- No need for a Zamboni just wait til you CGY fans see how clean the ice gets after his regular ass wipe shifts
- Your management will have to spend more money fixing the right side boards he loves to get crushed on those
- He'll be better one day.... so he says
- He'll give you a good 3 minutes per game if you don't mind the goal or 2 against

How's that for starters?

If you ever read this... I'm just kidding Lazar I'm on your side and wish you the best in CGY

See, this is actually worth reading more tbh. Just because we never have these types of threads.

The " good luck in CGY" stuff is boring and a waste of space on this website. ( of course just my opinion)

 

[Icelevel]

this whole thing will be a lot easier to forget if we draft a decent looking prospect with that 2nd.

 

[pm88]

Lets be fair. Dzingel went though 3 years of college, 3 pro seasons mostly in the AHL with many NHL call-ups before he found a spot. Dzingel took a totally different path and had the opportunity to develop his pro game in the AHL. He'll be 25 in a few days and Lazar just turned 22 last month. 3 full years is a lot of time to grow into your body.

Lazar was expected to jump right from junior to the NHL (Sens management set high expectations when they labelled him an NHL player right away) and while somewhat physically mature his game wasn't and then he got mono at the worst possible time before this season. No training, no camp and no chance to regain his health under the stress to perform at the highest level with a new coach who had to win at all cost.

Yes it was on him but I don't believe that this season is a true indicator of his capabilities. Even if he turns out to be no more than a 3rd line / 4th line tweener, was a poor 2nd rounder enough for a young NHL player who has untapped potential to be better. The pick is much more of a gamble especially when this management throws those away like nickels.

It's Lazars fault and also Murray and the management's fault as well. It was a mistake to bring him up right away and skip the AHL aspect of his development entirely and it was a mistake for them to let him become ineligible to be sent to the AHL without having to go through waivers first. I'd say its a 70-30 fault leaning on the side of the management.

They brought him into the NHL when he was something like 19 years old. Again, what were they expecting him to be? This wasn't some superstar NHL player in the making like a Crosby or MacDavid or Matthews, Laine, etc.

It was a complete and utter lack of common sense by the Ottawa management group. When you saw he was struggling so badly, why would you idiotically decide to keep him here for so long and completely burn that bridge of atleast letting him play major minutes in the AHL?

 

[Canadian Time]

I still have a problem with the theory that the Sens rushed him or stunted his development by not leaving him in the AHL. Maybe, but for many players the best way to develop is by playing a lesser role with the pros and working your way up the lineup. For awhile it looked like it was happening, then it stalled. For sure it's now up to him.

Does anyone know if he's in the Flames' lineup tonight? I can imagine him being motivated.

 

[Cat Herder]

I still have a problem with the theory that the Sens rushed him or stunted his development by not leaving him in the AHL. Maybe, but for many players the best way to develop is by playing a lesser role with the pros and working your way up the lineup. For awhile it looked like it was happening, then it stalled. For sure it's now up to him.

Does anyone know if he's in the Flames' lineup tonight? I can imagine him being motivated.

according to the team stats of the game on nhl.com he is not in the line up

 

[playasRus]

according to the team stats of the game on nhl.com he is not in the line up

Wasn't he also inelligible for the AHL and it was NHL or juniors?

 

[Samsquanch]

I still have a problem with the theory that the Sens rushed him or stunted his development by not leaving him in the AHL. Maybe, but for many players the best way to develop is by playing a lesser role with the pros and working your way up the lineup. For awhile it looked like it was happening, then it stalled. For sure it's now up to him.

Does anyone know if he's in the Flames' lineup tonight? I can imagine him being motivated.

My problem was the limited ice time he got here, and the quality of his linemates. He looked great with Pageau, and I wish we gave that more of a shot to develop. Until this last week, we've had nothing but dead weight anchors on our bottom line.

I bet that Burrows would have been a great mentor for him too...

Having said that, you have to earn the ice time that you get, and he simply didn't do that this year.

 

[pm88]

My problem was the limited ice time he got here, and the quality of his linemates. He looked great with Pageau, and I wish we gave that more of a shot to develop. Until this last week, we've had nothing but dead weight anchors on our bottom line.

I bet that Burrows would have been a great mentor for him too...

Having said that, you have to earn the ice time that you get, and he simply didn't do that this year.

That's why you blame Bryan Murray and management for it mostly. They should have had him play in the AHL for a few seasons and then brought him up full time when he was 21 or 22. It's not like they would be wasting his prime by having him in the AHL for 2-3 seasons. He would be playing against men, not boys in the AHL and really learn how to be effective against bigger, stronger players. Is that the most practical thing to do? Like I said, he wasn't some superstar in the making that he just had to be in the NHL right away so what was the point?

He's so damn young still. They completely mismanaged the player in this case

 

[The Lewler]

We should lock this thread and scrub his name from the annals of Sens history.

Bad pick feels bad man, move it along.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Some people think this is an appreciation thread.. You know where we thank him for his service, wish him well and celebrate why he is appreciable.

 

[arglebargle]

I still have a problem with the theory that the Sens rushed him or stunted his development by not leaving him in the AHL. Maybe, but for many players the best way to develop is by playing a lesser role with the pros and working your way up the lineup. For awhile it looked like it was happening, then it stalled. For sure it's now up to him.

Does anyone know if he's in the Flames' lineup tonight? I can imagine him being motivated.

On the other hand, the list of players in the Sens lineup who spent significant time at Binghamton include:

Cody Ceci
Mark Borowiecki
J.G. Pageau
Mark Stone
Zack Smith
Mike Hoffman

The simple fact is that 19-21 year old kids are rarely able consistently hold their own in the NHL. Prospects need time to develop the skills and physical attributes to succeed, and it's usually better for them to do it in an easier environment.

In any case I think Lazar probably fails to be a top 6 winger no matter how the Sens handle him, but he would probably be further along in his development had he gotten more consistent playing time in the AHL, rather than getting 5-10 minutes on the 4th line with a rotating cast of barely NHL calibre players for linemates.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

On the other hand, the list of players in the Sens lineup who spent significant time at Binghamton include:

Cody Ceci
Mark Borowiecki
J.G. Pageau
Mark Stone
Zack Smith
Mike Hoffman

The simple fact is that 19-21 year old kids are rarely able consistently hold their own in the NHL. Prospects need time to develop the skills and physical attributes to succeed, and it's usually better for them to do it in an easier environment.

In any case I think Lazar probably fails to be a top 6 winger no matter how the Sens handle him, but he would probably be further along in his development had he gotten more consistent playing time in the AHL, rather than getting 5-10 minutes on the 4th line with a rotating cast of barely NHL calibre players for linemates.

Ceci spent like half a season

 

[Mingus Dew]

Ceci was kind of rushed (imo) for similar reasons to Lazar. Local kid who has a great showing in his first call-up - PR writes itself.

 

[arglebargle]

Ceci spent like half a season

37 AHL games getting top 4 minutes, probably 750-900 minutes in which he performed well until he was called up because the team needed a first team defenceman. It's not as much as the other guys but it's a lot more than Lazar's 0 AHL minutes. Lazar didn't get any time to develop his skills in a lower pressure environment until the team had already given up on him.

Edit: and yeah, there's also the case to be made that Ceci would have benefited from a bit more time in the AHL. My main point still stands: pretty much everyone needs some time in the AHL before they're ready to step into the first team.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Good luck to him in Calgary, we have better options here right now, and will have more prospects coming next year. The second is a good asset to add another potential down the road.

It's the cycle of things for sure, draft player, give player chance, move player on to make space and get pick to draft player, give player chance...

I don't believe his current play is based on being rushed, or that more AHL time would have made hime better. A change of scenery, and maybe just being a late bloomer will help, but we don't have the space for that anymore in our team cycle. We only have space for players now.

Hopefully Calgary will be a good opportunity for him to stick.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Apparently Dave Cameron partially influenced them to get Lazar, or at least was someone who spoke positively of him. Which leads me to ask; how much has Cameron begged the to get Condra from TB?

 

[jason2020]

Apparently Dave Cameron partially influenced them to get Lazar, or at least was someone who spoke positively of him. Which leads me to ask; how much has Cameron begged the to get Condra from TB?

Could be good that he thinks highly of him could be bad if Dave told the Flames he could really be the cure we need to increase our scoring.

 

[BatherSeason]

On the other hand, the list of players in the Sens lineup who spent significant time at Binghamton include:

Cody Ceci
Mark Borowiecki
J.G. Pageau
Mark Stone
Zack Smith
Mike Hoffman

The simple fact is that 19-21 year old kids are rarely able consistently hold their own in the NHL. Prospects need time to develop the skills and physical attributes to succeed, and it's usually better for them to do it in an easier environment.

In any case I think Lazar probably fails to be a top 6 winger no matter how the Sens handle him, but he would probably be further along in his development had he gotten more consistent playing time in the AHL, rather than getting 5-10 minutes on the 4th line with a rotating cast of barely NHL calibre players for linemates.

Kind of hit and miss here, Boro, Ceci and Smith aren't exactly the best examples here. Yes, Smith has turned into a player, but you can't say its because he played in Bingo 10 years ago. Boro and Ceci on the other hand, have really yet to prove that they are solid NHLers. Boro and Ceci are probably NHLers right now because of the obsession BM had with "local" players. (Save the Ceci ice time arguments please. There is another thread for that).

Hoff, Stone and Pageau MAY have benefited from playing in the AHL, but its hard to measure.

 

[SAK11]

Kind of hit and miss here, Boro, Ceci and Smith aren't exactly the best examples here. Yes, Smith has turned into a player, but you can't say its because he played in Bingo 10 years ago. Boro and Ceci on the other hand, have really yet to prove that they are solid NHLers. Boro and Ceci are probably NHLers right now because of the obsession BM had with "local" players. (Save the Ceci ice time arguments please. There is another thread for that).

Hoff, Stone and Pageau MAY have benefited from playing in the AHL, but its hard to measure.

Ceci, not an NHLer? C'mon. I see the argument for not a top 4 d-man, but not in the NHL entirely? That's just silly.

 

[Boud]

The one thing I appreciate about Curtis is that he's not on the team anymore.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Kind of hit and miss here, Boro, Ceci and Smith aren't exactly the best examples here. Yes, Smith has turned into a player, but you can't say its because he played in Bingo 10 years ago. Boro and Ceci on the other hand, have really yet to prove that they are solid NHLers. Boro and Ceci are probably NHLers right now because of the obsession BM had with "local" players. (Save the Ceci ice time arguments please. There is another thread for that).

Hoff, Stone and Pageau MAY have benefited from playing in the AHL, but its hard to measure.

Hoffman most definitely benefitted. If he was thrown into the NHL right away he would have been cast off as a guy who will never learn defence and not good enough to score regularly. And that reputation would have stuck.

Stone had to spend time improving his skating and that can't Be done while going through the grind of the NHL. Also would have gotten the reputation of can't skate well enough for the top 6 and the cycle continues. Reputation sticks. Gets a shift with neil. Doesn't produce. Scratch. (Now I think stone eventually would have gotten himself out of that).

Pageau I think was always a lock for bottom six center.

 

[BVicious]

Flames fan.....

Curtis will have a hard time getting played right now. Flames have won their last 6 in a row and are 9-1-1. The only chance he gets in down the stretch is if someone gets injured, or the Flames lose a few games in a row.

I can see why people are glad to see him go, however being a Flames fan, I also understand that if a prospect isn't given a chance to succed, they won't. We saw this with Backlund. He wasn't rushed, but when he did get a call up he was playing with plugs. When Calgary finally decided to rebuild, Backlunds linemates and minutes were better.

Fast forward to our yournger guys now, they are being put into positions to succeed. Monahan, Bennett, Tkachuk were only making the team if put in positions to succeed, according to management.

Judging by Lazar's usage (8:00 per night) and line mates, he wasn't put in a position to succeed, at least from an outsiders perspective and I could very well be wrong.

I think the Flames know Lazar has a lot of work to do. And they certainly won't put him and the team in a position to fail when we are trying to maintain a playoff spot. I can easily see him watching games, learning the system, and practicing/preparing in case he is needed. But he won't be forced into a 4th line role if that's not where they want him to succeed.

I think the Flames will protect him and expose aging and expensive Brouwer, as he is a good candidate for a leadership role with LV.

This allows Lazar to start next season with Bennett, and his bridge deal will be very small, and affordable. A show me contract.

I understand if Ottawa is through with him. But the age group of the Flames core, and the vibe in the room is exactly why they acquired him. He will fit right in.

I hope Senators (my 2nd fav Canadian team) draft and develop someone with that 2nd rounder, but time will tell. Until that happens, or until Lazar makes an impact on the ice, this trade will not produce a winner for a few years at least

 

[jason2020]

BVicious

This is what concerns me for Lazar when people say he will make a big impact and be a leader if he can regain his game and that's a big if he will not score 20-30 and leadership again pressure on him won't help.

 

[BVicious]

BVicious

This is what concerns me for Lazar when people say he will make a big impact and be a leader if he can regain his game and that's a big if he will not score 20-30 and leadership again pressure on him won't help.

I'm not sure if many Flames fans or management for that matter has the same expectations as Ottawa's had when they drafted him. I think they see a guy who isn't going to be the youngest on the team, and needs a fresh start. Similar to what happened with Sven Baertschi, when we gave up on him.

I still think on the surface, this was not a bad deal for either team. Sens got a good return for Lazar, based on what he has done this far. And Calgary gets a 22 yr old with some tangibles that we need going forward.