Proposal: Curtis Glencross to MTL

[Trae]

You can't just sit here and tell me you're not biased at all towards your own players when you're implying that Glencross ought to be traded for someone on the level of Cammalleri or higher. I'm simply trying to be realistic.

Wait, what? When did I imply I wanted to trade Glencross for anybody? I don't think he will, nor do I want him to be, traded for anyone. I simply implied your proposal is garbage. But now that you mention it, although Cammalleri's level isn't high, certainly I would expect at least that back. That being said I don't want that return, but its not unreasonable to expect that.

To answer the OP's question, it would start with a 1st round draft pick plus a prospect

 

[MonahanTheMan]

All things considered id say Glenx holds more Value than Cammy. Contract, Age, Skill, Production, Intangibles....I think he is easily worth more than Cammy at this moment.

But Cammalleri in his natural position, on a reasonable contract? Probably not. Cammalleri, or Cammalleri-type players have a way higher ceiling than Glencross. Maybe Glencross is worth more than Cammalleri at the present time, but if we compare Glencross' best season with Cammy's, there's not a lot of competition. Both are good players, but one's better, anyone would tell you that.

 

[MonahanTheMan]

Wait, what? When did I imply I wanted to trade Glencross for anybody? I don't think he will, nor do I want him to be, traded for anyone. I simply implied your proposal is garbage.

I meant that you were saying if we wanted to trade him, that we ought to trade him for someone of Cammalleri's skill or higher, since that was what was being implied when you compared their stats.

 

[Trae]

I meant that you were saying if we wanted to trade him, that we ought to trade him for someone of Cammalleri's skill or higher, since that was what was being implied when you compared their stats.

I compared their stats because you said Cammy was better

 

[MonahanTheMan]

I compared their stats because you said Cammy was better

Thus, you're trying to show Glencross is better and that we should be asking for someone better than Cammalleri in a trade, if we were going to trade him. That's simply not true. I have a lot of unpopular or controversial opinions that incite flame wars (no pun intended) here, but anyone will tell you Cammalleri is better than Glencross. It's like saying Malkin is better than Dupuis. It's just true.

 

[Trae]

But Cammalleri in his natural position, on a reasonable contract? Probably not. Cammalleri, or Cammalleri-type players have a way higher ceiling than Glencross. Maybe Glencross is worth more than Cammalleri at the present time, but if we compare Glencross' best season with Cammy's, there's not a lot of competition. Both are good players, but one's better, anyone would tell you that.

Why would we compare best seasons? Cammalleri hasn't indicated that he could be more than a 20-25 goal scorer, 50-60 point guy in the past three seasons. Past years are irrelevant. He's also all offense and does not bring much else to the game without the puck, whereas that's a huge part of Glencross' game. In addition to that, you simply can't ignore his contract, why would you do that also? It's a part of his value, you can't just say "what if?"

 

[InfinityIggy]

But Cammalleri in his natural position, on a reasonable contract? Probably not. Cammalleri, or Cammalleri-type players have a way higher ceiling than Glencross. Maybe Glencross is worth more than Cammalleri at the present time, but if we compare Glencross' best season with Cammy's, there's not a lot of competition. Both are good players, but one's better, anyone would tell you that.

But Cammy isn't on a reasonable contract. Right now they will put up similar points, but one has grit, speed and an amazing contract the other doesn't. Im talking about right now, not 2 years from now or 2 years ago.

 

[Trae]

Thus, you're trying to show Glencross is better and that we should be asking for someone better than Cammalleri in a trade, if we were going to trade him. That's simply not true. I have a lot of unpopular or controversial opinions that incite flame wars (no pun intended) here, but anyone will tell you Cammalleri is better than Glencross. It's like saying Malkin is better than Dupuis. It's just true.

So this really stems from you being a huge fan of Cammalleri. Cause his value isn't high to me and when I say I would want Cammy value back I'm really not saying much.

 

[MonahanTheMan]

So this really stems from you being a huge fan of Cammalleri. Cause his value isn't high to me and when I say I would want Cammy value back I'm really not saying much.

That might be part of it. I admit that he is one of my favourite players. Just different perspectives, I guess.

 

[Hand of Gaudreau]

Lol, I like the argument that Cammalleri might hold more value than GX. To put this in perspective, lets say Cammo provides stable consistent offence this season, as GlenX has since he arrived, then sure they could hold the same value, based solely on their offensive ability, which might be the case if the entire game was played in the offensive zone, but if you want to try to convince me that Cammo even knows where the Calgary Flames defensive zone is, that's going to take a little more work. As far as I'm concerned they aren't even in the same league in term of value. Teams would trade 1st's and prospects for Glenny, they won't even offer a trade to Calgary for Cammo at his contract. I think that pretty much says it all.

 

[MonahanTheMan]

Lol, I like the argument that Cammalleri might hold more value than GX. To put this in perspective, lets say Cammo provides stable consistent offence this season, as GlenX has since he arrived, then sure they could hold the same value, based solely on their offensive ability, which might be the case if the entire game was played in the offensive zone, but if you want to try to convince me that Cammo even knows where the Calgary Flames defensive zone is, that's going to take a little more work. As far as I'm concerned they aren't even in the same league in term of value. Teams would trade 1st's and prospects for Glenny, they won't even offer a trade to Calgary for Cammo at his contract. I think that pretty much says it all.

I'm not totally sure teams would be willing to trade any firsts for Glencross. This goes back to my main point of contention, which is that even if he's great, teams don't think he's great and aren't going to be willing to shell out for him if he was on the table.

In that respect, trying to compare speculation to the fact that no-one wanted Cammalleri this offseason is kind of illegitimate. It could very well be that if we were asking the same stuff for Glencross that we were for Cammalleri that no-one would want Glencross, either.

 

[Trae]

I'm not totally sure teams would be willing to trade any firsts for Glencross. This goes back to my main point of contention, which is that even if he's great, teams don't think he's great and aren't going to be willing to shell out for him if he was on the table.

In that respect, trying to compare speculation to the fact that no-one wanted Cammalleri this offseason is kind of illegitimate. It could very well be that if we were asking the same stuff for Glencross that we were for Cammalleri that no-one would want Glencross, either.

How are you able to say confidently that "teams don't think he's great". Even other teams fans recognize he is a great asset. Hasn't Feaster stated that he is untouchable? Meanwhile he outright said nobody wants Cammalleri.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I'm not totally sure teams would be willing to trade any firsts for Glencross. This goes back to my main point of contention, which is that even if he's great, teams don't think he's great and aren't going to be willing to shell out for him if he was on the table.

In that respect, trying to compare speculation to the fact that no-one wanted Cammalleri this offseason is kind of illegitimate. It could very well be that if we were asking the same stuff for Glencross that we were for Cammalleri that no-one would want Glencross, either.

If you were to post (on the trade board), would your team give up your 2014 1st for Glencross, I bet you could get at least 15 teams willing to make that deal.

 

[BVicious]

Wow. Varying opinions in here and a pretty decent discussion.

I for one would suggest 29 teams would LOVE to have one of the best point per dollar and goal per shot player in the league who brings a physical game with speed.

Cammy on the other hand, has a horrible contract, is small and fairly one dimensional. And he has been given every oppertunity to succeed as a flame and Hab. I'm not saying he sucks, but comparing the value of the 2 players is silly, as it is easily one sided. Glencross is a clutch player. A player that would be a core piece on any team.

To say Cammy > Glencross is a severely poor judgement when considering all aspects of the player (skill, speed, aggression, contract, etc.)

 

[MonahanTheMan]

How are you able to say confidently that "teams don't think he's great". Even other teams fans recognize he is a great asset. Hasn't Feaster stated that he is untouchable? Meanwhile he outright said nobody wants Cammalleri.

That's not the impression I've been getting. From all I've understood, he's not well known outside Calgary. You at least don't hear nearly as much about him as you do about Cammalleri. I think Jay was just asking too much for Cammalleri (probably a top-15 pick in the deepest draft since '03). If he scaled down to just a first-round pick, you bet your sweet ass teams would've bitten.

 

[Trae]

That's not the impression I've been getting. From all I've understood, he's not well known outside Calgary. You at least don't hear nearly as much about him as you do about Cammalleri. I think Jay was just asking too much for Cammalleri (probably a top-15 pick in the deepest draft since '03). If he scaled down to just a first-round pick, you bet your sweet ass teams would've bitten.

You're stating as a fact, without evidence, that:
- Feaster was asking for a top 15 pick
- Other teams have no interest in Glencross and their pro scouts have no idea who he is

 

[MonahanTheMan]

Wow. Varying opinions in here and a pretty decent discussion.

I for one would suggest 29 teams would LOVE to have one of the best point per dollar and goal per shot player in the league who brings a physical game with speed.

Cammy on the other hand, has a horrible contract, is small and fairly one dimensional. And he has been given every oppertunity to succeed as a flame and Hab. I'm not saying he sucks, but comparing the value of the 2 players is silly, as it is easily one sided. Glencross is a clutch player. A player that would be a core piece on any team.

To say Cammy > Glencross is a severely poor judgement when considering all aspects of the player (skill, speed, aggression, contract, etc.)

In terms of raw talent and potential, I'd go with Cammalleri. But overall, I agree he's not the right player for us right now - doesn't fit where the team is going. Glencross is. But that doesn't mean Glencross is better than Cammalleri - just means that if Cammy was playing for a cup contender I bet he'd be over a point per game, but the Flames are not (yet) a cup contender.

 

[Trae]

In terms of raw talent and potential, I'd go with Cammalleri. But overall, I agree he's not the right player for us right now - doesn't fit where the team is going. Glencross is. But that doesn't mean Glencross is better than Cammalleri - just means that if Cammy was playing for a cup contender I bet he'd be over a point per game, but the Flames are not (yet) a cup contender.

What potential? He's past his prime, he's 31, has steadily been declining for years and you claim he could be a ppg player? Wow.

 

[InfinityIggy]

That's not the impression I've been getting. From all I've understood, he's not well known outside Calgary. You at least don't hear nearly as much about him as you do about Cammalleri. I think Jay was just asking too much for Cammalleri (probably a top-15 pick in the deepest draft since '03). If he scaled down to just a first-round pick, you bet your sweet ass teams would've bitten.

Sorry but if thats the case you're terribly out of the loop im afraid. There is a new Glenx thread on the main board about once a week.

The last Cammy thread is actually one I made, which is now buried 20 pages back.

Just as an example.

 

[MonahanTheMan]

You're stating as a fact, without evidence, that:
- Feaster was asking for a top 15 pick
- Other teams have no interest in Glencross and their pro scouts have no idea who he is

Hey now, I didn't state that as a fact. It's just what I was guessing, since that's what it seemed like Jay was interested in. I don't see why other teams wouldn't've gone for it if we were just asking for a first rounder - there are enough **** teams out there that are lacking high-scoring wingers and Cammalleri has good name recognition.

I don't think other teams have no interest in Glencross... I'm just sceptical that they'd be willing to give up a first.

 

[MonahanTheMan]

What potential? He's past his prime, he's 31, has steadily been declining for years and you claim he could be a ppg player? Wow.

Sure, I think he's still got the skillset. The Flames just aren't his type of team. He needs to be playing back on the left side with a skilled #1 centre, and he'll blow lots of players out of the water. He's just not being afforded opportunities with the Flames' top six the way it is.

 

[MonahanTheMan]

Sorry but if thats the case you're terribly out of the loop im afraid. There is a new Glenx thread on the main board about once a week.

The last Cammy thread is actually one I made, which is now buried 20 pages back.

Just as an example.

Which main board are you talking about? Sorry, just wasn't clear :B

 

[InfinityIggy]

Which main board are you talking about? Sorry, just wasn't clear :B

The Trade Rumour board

 

[Anglesmith]

The Trade Rumour board

Not to mention... look who started this thread (it wasn't a Flames fan).

 

[MonahanTheMan]

The Trade Rumour board

Huh, interesting. Yeah, you're right, I'm a bit out of the loop, this is really the only board I frequent. If other teams are talking about Glencross, that's great. I'd always gotten the impression he was ignored by most other teams.