Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
Ice Cream Man
$1 Oysters
Who cares about fair value? It's going to take an overpayment to get him out of Calgary, so lets hear some overpayment proposals.
If someone is not overpaying for Glencross, there's simply no need to move him. He's a great hockey player, and passing him off to someone else significantly improves their team and critically hurts us.
Don`t care, either, if that is arrogant. We`re in the drivers seat. Not the other team.
If someone is not overpaying for Glencross, there's simply no need to move him. He's a great hockey player, and passing him off to someone else significantly improves their team and critically hurts us.
Don`t care, either, if that is arrogant. We`re in the drivers seat. Not the other team.
MonahanTheMan
Pray for Flames
Outside the realm of reality:
Why trade him? He's a 25-30 goal scorer with all the intangibles @2.5 per!
That's as good a contract as there is in the NHL.
Reality:
We got him on that contract because king assured him he wouldn't be moved. Glencross is no going anywhere, anytime soon.
Unless someone severely overpaid, i can't see why management would even consider trading him.
Why trade him? He's a 25-30 goal scorer with all the intangibles @2.5 per!
That's as good a contract as there is in the NHL.
Reality:
We got him on that contract because king assured him he wouldn't be moved. Glencross is no going anywhere, anytime soon.
Unless someone severely overpaid, i can't see why management would even consider trading him.
Hand of Gaudreau
Gaudreaubey Baker
If Feasters agrees to a trade for GlenX, the second he goes to Glenny and asks him to waive, he INSTANTLY loses any thread of credibility he has with other players around the league and we could kiss any possible chance of signing FA's from here on out. Truth is trading GlenX is stupid, plain an simple, there isn't a return worth it. I don't know why threads like this start and for MTM, get real, if he was so mediocre of a LWer why oh why is every single trade thread started on HF including him. He is fast as balls, he scores consistently, is a demon on the PK and an animal in our own end. To me we don't have a player on our team that means as much to our team now that Iggy and Kipper are gone, and whats more, HE WANTS TO BE HERE. Never understate that, very few players feel loyalty to a franchise, but he is one, and I hope very badly that he retires here.
Johnny Hoxville
The Return of a Legend
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
There's a difference when you stuff their pockets full of money before kicking them to the curb. Glencross took less based on an understanding.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
Not quite the same thing...Glenx is a very special case. He asked ownership to be present when he signed the contract to ensure that their promise to never ask him to waive, would be solid.
Its just another level of player to organizational respect than almost any other case in the NHL.
Hand of Gaudreau
Gaudreaubey Baker
Are you saying that an American, highly desirable location holds the same value to FA's as a cold Canadian city? If so I think you might be a little off. Players sign here not because the City is awesome, or because the weather is great, players sign here, because word has gotten around through word of mouth between players that the organization treats it's player right and deals with it's business with honesty and integrity. Now you don't believe going back on such a significantly public promise, to a player who has committed himself to the team and city, while he could have made millions of dollars more to play else where and potentially even have a Stanley Cup to show for it, would have a severely negative impact. I doubt we would be able to sign an C level FA here for many years to come, let alone an A or A+ FA. If this team loses its integrity, there is nothing left for players around the league. I don't often bash on Edmonton, but if we were to trade GlenX, we become Edmonton as far as FA's are concerned.
It's unbelievable how fast your credibility has declined in such a short period of time. Glencross is our best player: he's a 30 goal scorer who gets paid 2.5(!) million a year. He is one of our most defensively responsible players, plays with grit, hits, does the dirty work, is exactly what you want a Calgary Flame to be. He has one of the best team-friendly contracts in the league which would only raise his value higher. It's insane how underrated he is even among fans.
Regarding LW depth, yeah, Cammy and Baertschi are there, there's also Hudler, Stempniak, Galiardi, and Horak. The thing is, there's such thing as playing off wing or out of position. Cammy could easily play Center or off wing, hell, we could see Glencross back on the RW. The point is, Glencross is not a 3rd line scrub. A 21 year old rookie isn't better than him at the moment, albeit he does need top 6 minutes, and Cammy is overpaid and easily less valuable to the team than Glencross. This is all irrelevant however, since Hartley will have three scoring lines where some nights Glencross may be on the "third line" even though they are all getting equal minutes. What Im trying to emphasize here is how much you are undervaluing him.
For comparison, Glencross/Cammalleri goal scoring pace the last three years:
Cammalleri (6m)
2010/2011: 23.25 goals
2011/2012: 24.84 goals
2012/2013: 24.22 goals
Glencross (2.5m)
2010/2011: 24.91 goals
2011/2012: 31.82 goals
2012/2013: 30.75 goals
Even though both are paid to score goals, one makes much less, scores more goals, and still brings more to the table in nearly every aspect of the game.
You don't trade a proven 25-30 goal scorer and your best player for a couple of lacklustre unproven players who won't amount to much ever, that is NOT fair value, and that is NOT how you manage assets. It's an awful proposal.
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MonahanTheMan
Pray for Flames
First, you're distorting Glencross' actual value by only providing his goal scoring statistics. Everyone knows Glencross is a finisher, and Cammalleri (since he seems to play centre for us now) is more of a setup man. Glencross' goal totals are out of whack with what most players would be doing - the way you provide these statistics it makes it look like he should be putting up 70 points every season. Obviously, he is not on pace for that. Cammalleri at least can be, if he's playing in his natural position with players that belong on a first line (i.e. not Stempniak and Stajan).
Sure, if you compare how much each is being paid, Glencross is a far better player as far as value goes. But that doesn't say anything about Glencross, it just says Cammalleri is being paid too much.
Next, other teams have players just like Glencross who play on a second line - he is not exceptional. He is simply an above average player who is playing on an abysmal team, so people here talk about him like he's a God. Not only that, but even if he was underrated (sure, he probably is to a degree), other teams don't see that. They just see a second line left winger who has little consistency outside of Calgary. That means they're not going to be willing to trade the types of players that this board thinks should be traded for Glencross because they perceive Glencross as not being as good as we think he is - let me reiterate - even if Glencross truly was the greatest Flame in franchise history, other teams do not perceive him being as such and will not trade top assets to acquire him.
Arguments about what Glencross is to the Flames are inconsequential. What matters are arguments about what he is to other teams. To Montreal, he is worth a top four defenseman and a prospect.
Sure, if you compare how much each is being paid, Glencross is a far better player as far as value goes. But that doesn't say anything about Glencross, it just says Cammalleri is being paid too much.
Next, other teams have players just like Glencross who play on a second line - he is not exceptional. He is simply an above average player who is playing on an abysmal team, so people here talk about him like he's a God. Not only that, but even if he was underrated (sure, he probably is to a degree), other teams don't see that. They just see a second line left winger who has little consistency outside of Calgary. That means they're not going to be willing to trade the types of players that this board thinks should be traded for Glencross because they perceive Glencross as not being as good as we think he is - let me reiterate - even if Glencross truly was the greatest Flame in franchise history, other teams do not perceive him being as such and will not trade top assets to acquire him.
Arguments about what Glencross is to the Flames are inconsequential. What matters are arguments about what he is to other teams. To Montreal, he is worth a top four defenseman and a prospect.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
Thats quite possibly the dumbest thing I have ever read. His value to the Flames is how we determine if he is worth trading. If the assets coming back in a deal are < the value of Glenx to his current team, the Flames then we wont trade him.
Secondly, why are you so hell bent on him going to Montreal? They are a terrible trading partner for Glencross.
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
Sorry, but the point of the thread is what it would take to get the Flames to trade Glencross, not how low the Flames would need to go in asking price in order to get the Habs to take him. Your original post said that you felt that the Flames would find Diaz and Fournier as better than Glencross from our perspective.
That argument is just flat ridiculous. Nobody is saying Glencross is a god, we just suck and he's our best player and we recognize that. He was just as good as when we were a half decent team before we lost our best 4 players. I don't know how else to make it clear to you besides my last post, but when you fail to recognize everything else he brings to the table, its obvious I am wasting my time anyways.
MonahanTheMan
Pray for Flames
I never said I wanted him to be traded, I really like Glencross and would like him to stay on the Flames. So talking about his value to the Flames is still inconsequential because he's not someone we'd want to trade to start with.
And I'm not particularly bent on him going to Montreal, it was just the subject of the trade. If we had to trade him (e.g. he asked to be traded) there are plenty of other places I'd like to see him go.
Now, with all that on the table, we see that if we were to actually trade Glencross to Montreal, it would be because he wanted to move, and we'd want to see what we could get out of it (we wouldn't be in the driver's seat). Given fair trade value, and what we think our players are worth vs. what Montreal thinks their players are worth, I think we could manage Diaz and Fournier (or maybe Diaz and Trunev, now that I think about it).
tl;dr no seriously I'm actually a good person
MonahanTheMan
Pray for Flames
I never said that getting Diaz and Fournier would be better than having Glencross, I just said I figured it'd be about fair trade value. I think the exchange is basically equivalent.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
Anglesmith
Setting up the play?
Again, though, this just plain isn't the concept of this thread. You can make a fair argument for what you're trying to push if the thread was "what could we expect to get for Glencross if he agreed to a trade," but in this case we are looking at what would be required to pry Glencross away against the Flames' (and Glencross') will. Therefore, the only relevant opinion on Glencross' value is, in fact, the Flames'. Not other teams', and not the impartial third-party's.
MonahanTheMan
Pray for Flames
You can't just sit here and tell me you're not biased at all towards your own players when you're implying that Glencross ought to be traded for someone on the level of Cammalleri or higher. I'm simply trying to be realistic.
MonahanTheMan
Pray for Flames
I never wanted to trade Glencross, it was just the subject of the thread. He's a good player and I think he will be a core part of the team for a long time. That being said, I also think Diaz is kinda underrated, and while not as good as Glencross, is still a good player, and I wouldn't be devastated to get him + a couple prospects in a trade for Glencross, just upset because we lost a very good player in Scoreface.
InfinityIggy
Zagidulin's Dad
All things considered id say Glenx holds more Value than Cammy. Contract, Age, Skill, Production, Intangibles....I think he is easily worth more than Cammy at this moment.
MonahanTheMan
Pray for Flames
I understand what you're saying. In that case, just imagine a little "OT:" in front of all my posts
