Crosby vs players from 90s

[steleh]

Wayne doesn't get enough credit for his athleticism. I mean take a look at this:

Whoever edited that video, wtf did you think?

 

[MattySnipes]

This makes no sense pretty sure Messier would destroy Crosby to but yet Gretzky dominated like no other in the time when anything went. Sure he had bodyguards but he still played in an era that was vicious compared to now. Crosby is the best player of the last 10-15 years but because he's the best some make him generational. He's not as he's never dominated as true generational players did. Those would be Gretzky, Mario, Orr and Howe. You could possibly add Hasek to that list. When has Crosby ever dominated the league for any full season compared to how those guys lead the second-place scorers? Before anyone replies but he does more than scoring I realize that but his primary job is scoring. Heck could be argued he's not even the best player on his own team for a few of the years he's played with Malkin. I put Crosby with Sakic, Yzerman and Messier myself. Nothing wrong with being grouped with those players I might add. Cheers.

He is definitely generational, imo. We can agree to disagree that's fine.

Drai beat out McDavid this past year in awards and scoring. Does that take away from McDavid's title as being generational? Nah. Sometimes a player will have a down year based off of their own expectations. Drai and McDavid are both excellent players but if you ask me who is generational? I say McDavid.

Same thing for Sid and Malkin. I've seen the raw numbers for Malkin especially when Sid was injured he was a man alive. But you gotta do it at all times. Sid and Malkin. I give Sid the generational trophy, but Malkin is definitely closer to Sid, than Drai is to McDavid.

 

[Kranix]

Stop reminding me of that Pond of Dreams thing from the 2000 All-Star Game.

Quite clearly the best use of time travel would be a pond hockey tournament of the best players from each generation.

Let's all watch and enjoy the dreams

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Yzerman and Sakic on different tiers seems odd.

Sakic was better, but agree they’re in the same tier.

 

[ESH]

No, but you're wrong.

Jagr's a clear level above the others and compares more closely to Crosby. There's being a superstar, and then there's absolutely dominating your peers thoroughly for much of your career, which is what Jagr and Crosby did

Did Crosby “absolutely dominate” his peers? He won the scoring title twice.

 

[avsfan9]

Alright. So most seem to think Jagr and Crosby are comparable. But what about Forsberg? Especially in the playoffs. Am I wrong to say id rather have Forsberg than Crosby centering my first line?

No. I’d prefer playoff Forsberg to Crosby as well. The guy was an absolute monster.

 

[Kranix]

Let's all watch and enjoy the dreams

Oh my GOD. So good. The stick tapping at the end

 

[ESH]

Wayne doesn't get enough credit for his athleticism. I mean take a look at this:

I agree that Gretzky deserves a bit more credit for his athletic abilities, but what about that video was supposed to impress me?

 

[Killer Orcas]

He is definitely generational, imo. We can agree to disagree that's fine.

Drai beat out McDavid this past year in awards and scoring. Does that take away from McDavid's title as being generational? Nah. Sometimes a player will have a down year based off of their own expectations. Drai and McDavid are both excellent players but if you ask me who is generational? I say McDavid.

Same thing for Sid and Malkin. I've seen the raw numbers for Malkin especially when Sid was injured he was a man alive. But you gotta do it at all times. Sid and Malkin. I give Sid the generational trophy, but Malkin is definitely closer to Sid, than Drai is to McDavid.

I agree with most everything you're saying here however one thing. The definition of generational isn't just the best player of an era for myself but someone that is literally head and shoulders above everyone else. According to my criteria for myself, nobody has been generational since Mario. Maybe my standard is too high for generational but that's the point of generational for myself.

Edit, except Hasek sorry.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

even with Mulletman being the one to say it, he's not exactly wrong.

Crosby hasn't separated himself from that pack. Yes he's above a Lindros/Forsberg but barely. He hasn't separated himself fully from them. And he's firmly behind Jagr still.

He gets way too much credit for what his career could've looked like today if he wasnt so fragile and missed so much time in his prime vs judging on his actual career. Which while great and slam dunk HOF'er is not all time great against league history.

 

[Lebowski]

even with Mulletman being the one to say it, he's not exactly wrong.

Crosby hasn't separated himself from that pack. Yes he's above a Lindros/Forsberg but barely. He hasn't separated himself fully from them. And he's firmly behind Jagr still.

He gets way too much credit for what his career could've looked like today if he wasnt so fragile and missed so much time in his prime vs judging on his actual career. Which while great and slam dunk HOF'er is not all time great against league history.

He completely leaps the field over his career in terms of PPG. This isn’t a “what could have been” measure, it’s a measure of what he has actually produced.

His career is pretty damn stellar as it is. Only reason why someone would bring up what his carrer could’ve looked like, as you say, is when you start trophy counting, which is a measure that completely disregards the general context in which those awards were won.

Crosby is heads and shoulders ahead of guys like Forsberg and Lindros, that’s just ridiculous. It’s a bit ironic to bring out those two names considering the “what could have been” critic you initially made about Crosby.

 

[Khelandros]

What about a little 2 on 2. Wayne (age 23) and a plug, versus Sid (age 23) and a plug. First to 10.

You say that like he doesn't have a plug on his wing every season.

 

[Roksta]

Stop reminding me of that Pond of Dreams thing from the 2000 All-Star Game.

Quite clearly the best use of time travel would be a pond hockey tournament of the best players from each generation.

i like how Lemieux is almost as tall as Lindros while wearing shoes

 

[DeeVeeUss]

Sexy trumps everything else.

Damn, mmkay Mr Lahey

 

[Fatass]

I think Sid would be a superstar in any era. He’s got great skill, but he’s also tough, and a grinder. He’s like this era’s Peter Forsberg. These guys are just great, and would be great against anyone. The Flyers of the early 70’s wouldn’t stop Sid (or Foppa).

 

[Dog]

Let's all watch and enjoy the dreams

Who's cutting onions.

 

[DitchMarner]

Jagr is in the same tier as Crosby. You can argue Sid is better, but he's not a tier better.

I would put Crosby in a higher tier than Sakic, Lindros and Forsberg. Maybe with better health for the latter two, things would be different. Then again, Sid's had injury problems as well.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

I put him in the Yzerman/Sakic tier of players.
So basically right below Jagr.

 

[Regal]

Crosby's biggest strength has been his year to year consistency in play and by now the length of his prime. Jagr is the only one that really reached a similar career tier. Several players from the 90s might have been similarly good at their best, but weren't near the best in the league long enough despite having full careers. I think Yzerman and Sakic fit into that. There's also players who had similar ability to be consistently great and might have had careers that rivaled Sid in a perfect world but, but injuries held them back, similar to Malkin being on Sid's tier in terms of talent but not in career. I think Lindros and Forsberg both fit into that tier.

 

[JaegerDice]

The hockey players today are simply better than the hockey players of yesteryear. They are stronger, faster, and they play against better defensive systems and better goaltending.

Drop Crosby as he is, with his training, nutrition, etc into the 80s and 90s, and he'd obliterate the records.

Relative to his peers and within the environment he plays, he's below Mario and Gretzky, above Sakic and Yzerman.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

The hockey players today are simply better than the hockey players of yesteryear. They are stronger, faster, and they play against better defensive systems and better goaltending.

Drop Crosby as he is, with his training, nutrition, etc into the 80s and 90s, and he'd obliterate the records.

Relative to his peers and within the environment he plays, he's below Mario and Gretzky, above Sakic and Yzerman.

Drop Yzerman into today's NHL with today's training, nutrition, etc. and he obliterates the league.
It works both ways.

 

[JaegerDice]

Drop Yzerman into today's NHL with today's training, nutrition, etc. and he obliterates the league.
It works both ways.

Well yeah.

Today's athletes are just better physical specimens by virtue of the tools at their disposal. I mean, Yzerman said the same about Toews in the 2015 finals. And while it's easy to hand-wave away his comments as standard humble hockey star BS, he was very specific in saying that Toews is bigger, stronger and faster than him... which is true. It doesn't seem like it, because Toews is operating in an NHL where his opposition is also bigger, stronger and faster than Yzerman. But the truth remains, the baseline for today's professional athletes is simply higher.

The difference is, we know what the Crosby of today plays like, just like we know what the Yzerman of the 80s and 90s played like. The Yzerman with the tools of today is purely a hypothetical.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Crosby is in the same tier as Jagr, which is a tier higher than Sakic/Lindros/Forsberg

The thread ended with this post so I don't know why people are still discussing.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Forsberg was better than Crosby.

 

[yeaher]

No, but you're wrong.

Jagr's a clear level above the others and compares more closely to Crosby. There's being a superstar, and then there's absolutely dominating your peers thoroughly for much of your career, which is what Jagr and Crosby did

Numbers wise Jagr is clearly on a ledge that holds few, but Forsberg performed better in the playoffs, and if I was starting a team with 18 year old Jagr v 18 year old Forsberg, I'd pick the latter all day anyday. Forsberg was omnipresent when on the ice, Jagr is one the top 5 offensive players all time, but I think Forsberg may well be a top 5 center all time and his defensive impact and ability to play in all situations would make him more valuable to me than Jagr. Now if you told me Jagr was going to play 34 more years than Forsberg I'd change me mind.