Crosby vs players from 90s

[wetcoast]

Jagr has the domination over his peers and awards. The eye test too. Doesn't necessarily mean I'd take Jagr over Crosby on my team. Question is better. Not more important.

Hasek was a one man show.

Yzerman and Sakic's leadership and intangibles are second to none. Playoff warriors.

You really need to take a look at Crosby again.

Hit the ground running, elite prime of 15 straight years, huge gap in regular season and playoff performance on his contemporaries.....


There is a case, based on an incredible peak for Hasek to be sure but Jagr is a slight step down and the 2 western conference centres another step down in all time performance and rankings to be sure.

 

[daver]

He'd never get the open space he's been able to make for himself these past 15 years.

There are plenty of players who played in the DPE and in Crosby's era during their prime, how come the top scorers from the DPE circa 2001 to 2004 didn't so any better (i.e. win scoring titles, finish higher in scoring) in Crosby's era if it was that much easier?

 

[Czech Your Math]

There are plenty of players who played in the DPE and in Crosby's era during their prime, how come the top scorers from the DPE circa 2001 to 2004 didn't so any better (i.e. win scoring titles, finish higher in scoring) in Crosby's era if it was that much easier?

Jagr & Thornton battled for Ross in '06, each scoring more points than any other player would for 13 seasons. Jagr had major shoulder after that season, had another top 10 finish with 100 points, then one more season at age 35-6, before heading to KHL. Thornton finished second in '07 and added a couple more top 5s & a top 10. Sakic had 100 points and finished top 10, ahead of Ovechkin and rookie Malkin in 2007 at age 37. Selanne had knee surgery and wasn't near his peak, but still later finished top 10 at age 40. Kariya was well past his peak, Bure & Lindros were done, and Forsberg's last full season was in 2003.

Actual enforcement of rules, etc. is easier for the players, but they didn't have the speed in their mid-late 30s that they did in their 20s, so they couldn't take close to full advantage of post-lockout NHL. It's almost like asking "if Crosby/Malkin/Ovechkin were so good, why didn't they win a scoring title after 2014, and not come close after 2015?" Except entering 2014-5, the big 3 were 27, 28 & 29... not in their mid-late 30s.

 

[nowhereman]

Really no comparison.

Crosby is inferior to 99, 66, Jagr, Hasek, Sakic, Yzerman, and Messier.

I see someone is drunk off nostalgia. Crosby inferior to Messier, Sakic, and Yzerman, lmfao?

There is zero argument for any of those three players over Crosby.

 

[Hockeyholic]

I see someone is drunk off nostalgia. Crosby inferior to Messier, Sakic, and Yzerman, lmfao?

There is zero argument for any of those three players over Crosby.

Just the leadership and intangibles the other three brought. Unmatched in professional sports.

 

[nowhereman]

Just the leadership and intangibles the other three brought. Unmatched in professional sports.

Ever heard of guys like Tom Brady, Lebron James, Michael Jordan, Jean Beliveau, Franz Beckenbauer, and Ray Lewis? There have been plenty of athletes who can match those three names and then some.

Crosby is one of the most well-rounded superstars in history and has been lauded as the best leader of his generation. What makes what any of those aforementioned three did more impressive than Sid? If you want to judge it by winning, all three of Sakic/Yzerman/Messier played on stacked franchises in the pre-cap world. I doubt they would be held in the same regard if they didn't have the good fortune of playing with the likes of Gretzky, Roy, Lidstrom, Forsberg, Coffey, Kurri, Fedorov, Bourque, Hasek, Chelios and the list goes on. Crosby's winning pedigree is more impressive, given the rosters he played on compared to those dynasty-quality super-rosters. Sid (along with Malkin) had to carry rosters where the secondary scoring came from third/fourth-line quality journeymen, as opposed to other HHOFers.

If winning is the game, I'll take Crosby and his "intangibles" over all of those three. You can throw Jagr in there to, as he never drove the bus on any of those Penguins Cups.

 

[tabness]

There are tons of reasons why people would prefer Yzerman, Messier, Jagr, Sakic to Crosby (or Ovechkin, Malkin) lol

There is a cohort of Crosby fans here who are super insecure it seems (saw it a lot with the McDavid threads, now there's a player who could very well eclipse my nineties guys)

it's OK, you'd take Crosby, I'd take the nineties guys

 

[blundluntman]

Honestly, I don't think there's anything tangible about Crosby's game that really separates him from any of the 90s players mentioned.

As great as his peak was, it wasn't any more dynamic than Forsberg, Lindros or Jagr imo. Although I would probably say his game filled out better than Lindros and Jagr, I wouldn't say he became a better two way forward than Sakic or Yzerman (don't get me started with Fedorov either).

All things considered, he has a higher floor than the 90s players but the ceiling isn't high enough to put him in a separate tier. My order would be: Jagr, Crosby/Sakic, Forsberg, Yzerman, Lindros

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Honestly, I don't think there's anything tangible about Crosby's game that really separates him from any of the 90s players mentioned.

As great as his peak was, it wasn't any more dynamic than Forsberg, Lindros or Jagr imo. Although I would probably say his game filled out better than Lindros and Jagr, I wouldn't say he became a better two way forward than Sakic or Yzerman (don't get me started with Fedorov either).

All things considered, he has a higher floor than the 90s players but the ceiling isn't high enough to put him in a separate tier. My order would be: Jagr, Crosby/Sakic, Forsberg, Yzerman, Lindros

His overall body of work trumps those players though Sans jagr

 

[blundluntman]

His overall body of work trumps those players though Sans jagr

What do you mean by body of work exactly? As far as awards go, I'd say he's on equal footing with them at best, and that's being generous when you look at Jagr's trophy case. Yzerman, Sakic and Forsberg all had relatively equal playoff success too.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

What do you mean by body of work exactly? As far as awards go, I'd say he's on equal footing with them at best, and that's being generous when you look at Jagr's trophy case. Yzerman, Sakic and Forsberg all had relatively equal playoff success too.

When I say body of work I'm not just talking about his hardware. His overall scoring finishes hart finishes playoffs etc.
Strictly awards he has more than jagr yes trumps Sakic forsberg and Yzerman but besides that well look at crosbys finishes so far

Hart 1,1,2,2,2,2,3,4,5,6
Scoring 1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3,5,6,10,10

There are not many players in history who can compete with that and jagr is the only one of those players who can.

 

[blundluntman]

When I say body of work I'm not just talking about his hardware. His overall scoring finishes hart finishes playoffs etc.
Strictly awards he has more than jagr yes trumps Sakic forsberg and Yzerman but besides that well look at crosbys finishes so far

Hart 1,1,2,2,2,2,3,4,5,6
Scoring 1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3,5,6,10,10

There are not many players in history who can compete with that and jagr is the only one of those players who can.

Ah, gotcha. I must say I do agree with you.

It's strange looking at Crosby bc his greatest quality is his consistency while his greatest shortcoming is durability, it really isn't fair lol

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Ah, gotcha. I must say I do agree with you.

It's strange looking at Crosby bc his greatest quality is his consistency while his greatest shortcoming is durability, it really isn't fair lol

Yeah lol. All those finishes I put would have a lot more number 1s without injuries. Even then it's amazing